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carzan
carzan Reader
1/13/10 10:19 a.m.
JThw8 wrote: Can any subie experts chime in here? Looks like the JDM motors can be picked up pretty cheap (in compairason) Is this a direct swap or is there annoying fiddly things we'd have to do to make that motor work?

ForesterXT=LegacyGT=STI=WRXs with the 2.5. Turbos/ECMs/exhaust/intercoolers etc. are different between some models, but the block/heads are the same, from what I understand.

Jeff, the reason I asked about noise and oil level is because I was thinking the turbo may have failed and blew oil into the intake (which maybe gave you the misfire code?) I'm surprised that it didn't give you P0011 and a P0021 because often you get both when the engine itself is getting trashed.

carzan
carzan Reader
1/13/10 10:23 a.m.

This is an estimate from another person in the same situation from a dealer in Catskill, NY:

"Estimate to replace the turbo $2300.00. Estimate to replace engine $5341.00. Estimate to replace exhaust $1779.00 not including tax"

This can be done Muuuuch cheaper!

littleturquoiseb
littleturquoiseb HalfDork
1/13/10 10:23 a.m.

what is P0011 and P0021? I don't have my reader with me and I don't rememebr what the code was.

littleturquoiseb
littleturquoiseb HalfDork
1/13/10 10:31 a.m.

My dealer gave me... $4159 engine parts plus new w-pump, timing belt, tensioners, drivebelts and spark plugs.... 2120 labor.. with tax $6809.00

then he added BS that I refuse .. like a $600.00 brake job, 235 trans service, 535 lower control arm bushing, 148 battery.

littleturquoiseb
littleturquoiseb HalfDork
1/13/10 10:37 a.m.

BTW no squeeling ... a turbo squeeling would have made plenty of noise for my wife to notice.

carzan
carzan Reader
1/13/10 10:40 a.m.
littleturquoiseb wrote: what is P0011 and P0021? I don't have my reader with me and I don't rememebr what the code was.

IIRC P0011 is valvetrain in an out-of-spec position on the passenger side and P0021 is the same for the driver side. In cases such as yours where both codes would have been thrown at the same time, basically indicates the valvetrain is getting trashed due to lack of oil from what I understand.

carzan
carzan Reader
1/13/10 10:44 a.m.

Ours never squeeled, at least not initially. It sounded like bees under the hood. Not loud, Music from the stereo would have canceled it out.

Morbid
Morbid Reader
1/13/10 11:14 a.m.

I agree that you should call Subaru and complain. I have never heard of a DD Subaru engine dying that young.

Do keep your eyes out for a longblock though, and try to make nice with one of the mechanics at the dealership. He may be willing to come to you house and help you do the swap with a cheap block that you have picked up. We were looking into this scenario for our Impreza Brighton, since we were able to pick up a nearly complete engine for $75 on here.

Hope you get some leeway from Subaru.

littleturquoiseb
littleturquoiseb HalfDork
1/13/10 12:04 p.m.

Those weren't the codes ... it was 'missfire cyl 2' and 'missfire cly 4 (pending)'

... interesting news form the slaes maneger (my wife was working with about 6 months ago on a forrester) ... he wants to talk trade. He checked it out and says it should be worth $5K in it's current condition (KBB says 11K in good condition) .. That would put us upside down in our loan only about 3k ...or less than half the repair bill.

This isn't my favorite option but interesting.

VanillaSky
VanillaSky Reader
1/13/10 12:40 p.m.

I like your "not favorite" option for a keep-the-wife-happy car. Do you have the $3000-ish to dig you out? Might be able to work some magic and get a leftover 2009 and come out smelling like roses.

I'm a keep the wife in a nice car guy. I like my crapboxes, the wife doesn't.

littleturquoiseb
littleturquoiseb HalfDork
1/13/10 1:03 p.m.

Keeping the wife happy is a priority ... She didn't like the news that I found a guy local to do the swap with a used motor.

The shop was recomended by Promar (engine builder http://www.promarengine.com/ ) ... who was recomended to my brother by the NASOIC when he blew his WRX motor (overreved at a driving school).

Both shops are very very local ... like 5 miles from where I'm sitting!

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
1/13/10 1:17 p.m.
VanillaSky wrote: I'm a keep the wife in a nice car guy. I like my crapboxes, the wife doesn't.

Me too, there's nothing wrong with that.

docwyte
docwyte Reader
1/13/10 1:48 p.m.

Subaru is having lots of issues lately. The new (08+) WRX's and STI's are blowing motors with frightening regularity.

Apparently the stock tune runs the motor very lean...

minimac
minimac Dork
1/13/10 1:52 p.m.

My '98 (dohc)Forester broke a rod bolt@156k and banged around a lot. I bought a used motor from a Subaru mechanic near Poughkeepsie for $500.It supposedly had 112K and he said he put a new timing belt and headgaskets in it. It was a car that he serviced at the dealership and when the owner was in a wreck, he got the car for parts. I had my brother, who's a Subaru mechanic, swap the motors. He had the old one out in well under 3 hours. While installing the new one, we did a new clutch & kit for $250(aftermarket)and I gave him $250. I've put about 3k miles on this one now and for me, it was well worth the expense.The motor has noticeably more power than the old one.

Marty! Good to the last drop....
Marty! Good to the last drop.... HalfDork
1/13/10 1:59 p.m.

I like the trade option. If what others are saying that a long block or motor are around $1800 to buy, plus you still gotta do the work, then the difference is now only $1200 from the absolute cheapest way to fix the car (from what you still owe on the car).

Go shopping, let her pick out something she likes and get new car lovin' for the next month

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
1/13/10 2:19 p.m.

Yeah, being upside down sux but you keep cars longer than I do so you will surface from the other end alright.

Tell the salesman you are seriously concerned about Subaru reliability after this incident so any price had better include and extended warrantee for free for the troubles you've put up with being a Subaru owner.

zomby woof
zomby woof Reader
1/13/10 3:11 p.m.
blew his WRX motor (overreved at a driving school).

How do you over rev a motor that has a rev limiter?

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/13/10 3:22 p.m.
zomby woof wrote:
blew his WRX motor (overreved at a driving school).
How do you over rev a motor that has a rev limiter?

Money shift maybe? Electronics have a hard time overcoming physics.

Happens sometimes with the early 7th generation Celica GTS. Go to hit 4th, grab 2nd instead. Some have recorded revs of up to 12k rpms.

Gonzo_Bmod
Gonzo_Bmod Reader
1/13/10 3:24 p.m.

In reply to zomby woof:

How do you over rev a motor that has a rev limiter?

Let me count the ways....easiest way is a downshift to the wrong gear. No rev limiter can stop that.

Gotsol
Gotsol New Reader
1/13/10 3:34 p.m.

I love how everyone here is telling the OP to complain to SOA yet the he drove around with a CEL for who knows how long.

The car has 76k, never saw a dealership and people think SOA is going to hand over money "just 'cause?" Not going to happen.

So much for taking responsibility for our own actions.

Take the trade, you might get the SOA rep to put in a few dollars more out of "good will" but I wouldn't count on it.

Good luck

skruffy
skruffy Dork
1/13/10 4:31 p.m.

Book time for a complete engine replacement on that car is 8.2 to 8.9 hours. Depending on the labor rate in your area most indy shops are gonna charge upwards of $800 just in labor for that job. Throw in another $200 or so for all the misc crap (oil/filter, plugs, trans/transfer fluid, motor mounts) that might need changed and you've got an even $1k or so.

If you want to drag it to ohio I'd make you a GRM-tastic labor rate on that job. I'm kinda slow this week.

The price you got from the dealer is right in line with what I'd expect them to charge.

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
1/13/10 4:42 p.m.
Gotsol wrote: I love how everyone here is telling the OP to complain to SOA yet the he drove around with a CEL for who knows how long. The car has 76k, never saw a dealership and people think SOA is going to hand over money "just 'cause?" Not going to happen. So much for taking responsibility for our own actions. Take the trade, you might get the SOA rep to put in a few dollars more out of "good will" but I wouldn't count on it. Good luck

Reading is fundamental, OP said it was on for a few days and he drove it 2x with the light on.

"Never saw a dealership"...so what? Many people don't take their cars to dealers for service, that doesn't mean it wasn't serviced. I happen to know the OP and know he takes very good care of his cars, he's just smarter than to pay dealer prices for routine maintenance. Thankfully there are laws in place that say that dealer maintenance isn't a requirement.

76k on a modern motor that HAS been maintained is a joke and indicative of a larger problem.

You talk about personal responsibility but why not the responsibility of manufacturers to stand behind a product with an obvious flaw. Its not just SOA of course, most manufacturers would rather invest money to put the blame anywhere but on a faulty product.

thedude
thedude Reader
1/13/10 4:56 p.m.

What's the word from Subaru on this?

Also, how much would it cost to ship the dead engine to their headquarters?

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
1/13/10 5:43 p.m.

if he is in jersey... their HQ is not far away.. Cherry Hill I think

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
1/13/10 6:00 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: if he is in jersey... their HQ is not far away.. Cherry Hill I think

Indeed, Cherry Hill, Jeff is up in the far northern bits of NJ but the HQ is not far from me. I think I even know some people that work there, sadly not in a capacity in which they could really be of any use.

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