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Junkyard_Dog
Junkyard_Dog HalfDork
1/13/10 8:24 p.m.

Having worked in dealerships since I was 18 (35 now) I can say with certainty that "serviced at the dealership" and "maintained" are two very different things with regards to goodwill. A dealership you spent money with will spend money on you or go to bat with the manufacturer. A store that barely sees you will likely tell you to take a hike. This is one of the few instances that it pays to spend the extra money on services.

carzan
carzan Reader
1/13/10 9:19 p.m.
littleturquoiseb wrote: Those weren't the codes ... it was 'missfire cyl 2' and 'missfire cly 4 (pending)'

Yeah, that's what is puzzling me. If you HAD gotten those codes, I'd have a pretty good idea what happened.

A misfire code just doesn't seem like a likely bottom end wrecking scenario.

Missfire 2 and 4 codes CAN be caused by a stuck cam sprocket (stuck as in can't adjust the variable valve timing) which can also make a racket that can sound like an engine knock.

If you haven't noticed, I'm skeptical about this engine being truly trashed, but you're the one who is going to have to deal with a wife who seems to be uneasy about vehicle repairs and may "remind" you of that uneasiness any time the car hiccups or makes a noise from here on out. If you can handle the financial end of it, the new car might be the way to go. Always try to negotiate a better deal, though.

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
1/13/10 9:25 p.m.
Junkyard_Dog wrote: Having worked in dealerships since I was 18 (35 now) I can say with certainty that "serviced at the dealership" and "maintained" are two very different things with regards to goodwill. A dealership you spent money with will spend money on you or go to bat with the manufacturer. A store that barely sees you will likely tell you to take a hike. This is one of the few instances that it pays to spend the extra money on services.

No argument, when seeking goodwill it helps. But for a dealer to blame outside service for the issue is just passing blame pure and simple.

For the whopping 24k miles that my car was under warrantee I paid MB for their $200 oil change 'cause I thought maybe I was getting something extra. The only extra I got was great customer service but thats $30 for oil and a filter and $170 worth of customer service....screw that $170 buys me much more customer service at the nudie bar ;)

They did wash the car every time for me, and I made sure to bring it in extra dirty for them. But I usually ended up having to go home and wash it again because they did a lousy job.

redzcstandardhatch
redzcstandardhatch New Reader
1/13/10 9:50 p.m.

that SUCKS...but i've seen SO many subie engines die randomly in the last 3 years, that i dont trust them.

they are EASY AS CRAP to yank. 99 2.5rs w/ a custom turbokit, and a wrecked bottom end went through our shop a while ago (my brother had installed the engine and built the turbo kit, so he knew his way around it). he had the engine out in 45 minutes. new engine was in and running 2.5 hours after starting. unbelievable. i'd do the swap yourself.

gunner
gunner New Reader
1/13/10 10:08 p.m.

This probably won't pertain to your problem, but since someone else skimmed this issue, I thought it worth mentioning. Several years ago, back when the eagle summit was new (yep, a long time ago) a customer brought one into the dealer that was DOA. wouldn't start. nothing they could do to get it running. Customer traded it in, it was almost new so under warranty but since they couldn't get it running, the customer gave up on it. The dealer put it out back, where one of the mechanics bought it for 1800 bucks. The mechanic replaced 2 fuses and drove it home. some shady people out there. watch your back.

Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
1/13/10 10:17 p.m.

The Subie engine is one of the easiest engines to swap and rebuild, if you or someone you know is handy with a wrench. Buy a new or low mileage long block and give yourself a couple of days and you'll be back on the road.

With regards to trying to get some "goodwill" out-of-warranty work from your dealer, I think you guys making that recommendation are dreaming. Matter of fact, I wonder how many making that recommendation have bought a car brand new and kept it through the end of the warranty period. When you buy the car, you have a VERY specific mileage/time that you have a warranty on each part of the car, from the fuel cap to the clutch to the shift knob. Those mileage numbers aren't picked accidentally. Sure, an engine might last 300k miles, but the manufacturer makes no such claims. Seems like a pretty simple equation to me.

Bryce

littleturquoiseb
littleturquoiseb HalfDork
1/13/10 10:30 p.m.

Interesting night at the dealership. Wife goes to the showroom, I go to the service desk (to get the keys and liberate the stroller from the trunk). Service maneger leads me through the bays and grabs the keys off the tech. Leaving me time to have a friendly discussion with the tech. He walks me to my car and confirms it threw a rod ... How'd it happen I ask, 'it started when the turbo blew, Ive seen a bunch of these'. The tech starts asking me questions about what my plans are (trade or fix)and asks how much their gonna give us for the trade.... He's clearly concerned about the 5k trade value and tells me on the spot he'd buy it for more then they're offering. Then, when I look interested he starts playing up the price of the brake job and other crap ... I'm in no mood to begin bargaining.

The wife overhears this and says the sales manager had a similar reaction to the possible trade. Telling her how nice the car was but how "we better get out now" ... we both feel like the sharks are circling. She is standing next to her beloved car and feeling a bit weepy.

Quick test drive of the new outback and a quick number crunch. The sales guy gave us a good price but we already know we're going to try to repair it and keep it (we keep this to ourselves and ask for 24hrs to think about it) .... he wants us to talk to the sales manager before we leave. The sales manager is with someone else and we give him about 15 minutes ... repeated phone calls and we're still waiting. we put on our coats to leave and our sales guy is sweating, I can see the manager standing next to my car working some guy on a new STi. I assure the salesman, I'll talk to him on the way out and out we go. The sales guy is trying to get him to talk to us badly (waving arms to get his attention)... Manager dude starts working me about how 'it's not worth fixing', it's a lot of work' and 'I'll never get my money out of it if I don't trade it now'. I start telling him loudly "I keep cars a long time when their engines don't blow up!!"

We split with much haste ... on the way home I promise the wife the day we bring it home if she doesn't feel right we'll start looking for a new car... or I'll keep it!

Now I gotta find a good price on the used or re-man lump!

littleturquoiseb
littleturquoiseb HalfDork
1/13/10 10:40 p.m.
zomby woof wrote:
blew his WRX motor (overreved at a driving school).
How do you over rev a motor that has a rev limiter?

BTW my brother posts here so I'll let him explain if he wants too!

in responce to gotsol ... I did say in an earlier post that it was my fault for underestimating the CEL ... I also never wanted a free engine ... $500 off the labor would have been a nice gesture ... I have recieved a referal free from this dealership and we have been back several time looking at forresters for the wife and used WRX's for me. We not strangers.

carzan
carzan Reader
1/13/10 11:14 p.m.

Ok...you drove it prior to having it towed. Did it shake REALLY bad? If not, I'm having a hard time buying the throwing-a-rod thing. Blown turbo? Really? Is your turbo blown? I drove ours 350+ miles on the highway with a blown turbo and I assure you I haven't thrown a rod or anything close to it. The only way I can see for a blown turbo to be the cause of a bottom end issue is if leaking seals allowed all the oil to be consumed (hence my question about the oil level after the knocking started earlier in the thread).

These guys seem AWFULLY interested in getting this car away from you...and I smell the odor of a certain rodent.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
1/13/10 11:41 p.m.
carzan wrote: These guys seem AWFULLY interested in getting this car away from you...and I smell the odor of a certain rodent.

+1. There is a reason they are anxious to make the deal. They ain't in the charity business.

digdug18
digdug18 Reader
1/14/10 12:09 a.m.

If you throw a engine swapping party, count me in, I'll make the drive from northeast philly, lol...

I personally vote you get a honda this time though. And talk to your local junk yard, they will give you a nice sum to get a newer car to sell off the parts or rebuild.

Andrew

Wally
Wally SuperDork
1/14/10 12:57 a.m.
digdug18 wrote: If you throw a engine swapping party, count me in, I'll make the drive from northeast philly, lol... I personally vote you get a honda this time though. And talk to your local junk yard, they will give you a nice sum to get a newer car to sell off the parts or rebuild. Andrew

+1, let us know if you need people to stand around making pointless sugestions.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
1/14/10 4:56 a.m.
Nashco wrote: With regards to trying to get some "goodwill" out-of-warranty work from your dealer, I think you guys making that recommendation are dreaming. Matter of fact, I wonder how many making that recommendation have bought a car brand new and kept it through the end of the warranty period. When you buy the car, you have a VERY specific mileage/time that you have a warranty on each part of the car, from the fuel cap to the clutch to the shift knob. Those mileage numbers aren't picked accidentally. Sure, an engine might last 300k miles, but the manufacturer makes no such claims. Seems like a pretty simple equation to me.

It never hurts to ask. I told my dad to do such when his trans was having issues in his Accord. He got a free trans from Honda on a 148k mile car. There was some history of service and complaints about the trans at the dealership during the warranty period, but they were under no obligation to provide a trans.

So... Just ask.... It never hurts and you could end up with an engine.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim HalfDork
1/14/10 6:04 a.m.

I think the keyword here is 'ask', not 'demand'. Playing nice never hurt anybody...

I do however get the impression that the dealership knows something they're unwilling to share with the OP, hence their massive push towards a new car. Carzan's not the only one who's smelling a rather well-fed rodent here.

JThw8
JThw8 SuperDork
1/14/10 7:22 a.m.

What's the plan Jeff? Local shop or group fixit party?
Come get my truck to use as a fill in vehicle and then use it to tow that thing down to my place. With the whole crew on it I'm confident we can be in and out in a day as long as we dont his a parts problem.

Seems doubtful we'd have an engine for this weekends work party but I'm free all day next sunday if you wanna do it then. Heck wife will cut me a pass on saturday too probably for you and Jen.

Wachuko
Wachuko None
1/14/10 9:02 a.m.

Did you ever reach out to Subaru of America to ask for a repair covered by them?

Wachuko
Wachuko New Reader
1/14/10 9:07 a.m.
ignorant wrote:
Nashco wrote: With regards to trying to get some "goodwill" out-of-warranty work from your dealer, I think you guys making that recommendation are dreaming. Matter of fact, I wonder how many making that recommendation have bought a car brand new and kept it through the end of the warranty period. When you buy the car, you have a VERY specific mileage/time that you have a warranty on each part of the car, from the fuel cap to the clutch to the shift knob. Those mileage numbers aren't picked accidentally. Sure, an engine might last 300k miles, but the manufacturer makes no such claims. Seems like a pretty simple equation to me.

It never hurts to ask. I told my dad to do such when his trans was having issues in his Accord. He got a free trans from Honda on a 148k mile car. There was some history of service and complaints about the trans at the dealership during the warranty period, but they were under no obligation to provide a trans.

So... Just ask.... It never hurts and you could end up with an engine.

+1. If it is a well documented request with some history of a loyal customer, and you have all documented services, etc. They might cover or partially cover the repair. I have seen it done with anything from Toyota to Porsche... but just don't delay...

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/14/10 9:13 a.m.

I think there's about a 10% change of that motor being truly dead.

When a motor throws a rod, the racket is truly awful, and i find it hard to believe that a blown turbo would cause that to happen that fast.

The dealer is trying to pull a fast one.

zomby woof
zomby woof Reader
1/14/10 9:17 a.m.

It sure sounds fishy to me.

What is a 'blown' turbo, and why would it have any affect on the motor, such that you might spin a bearing, or throw a rod. I'm surprised that the mechanics on here haven't mentioned that. Have you taken it to someone you trust for a second opinion?

GM has done work out of warranty on both of my vehicles in the last few years. Minor stuff, but my only dealer visits have been warranty related, and they offered both times. If the motor really is pooched, they should at least cut you some slack. It's not like there isn't any gravy in that price.

TheWake
TheWake New Reader
1/14/10 9:37 a.m.

The dealer is most likely desperate to move an extra new car. Then again they always seem to be desperate to move the new cars. I think you really need to get a second opinion.

The dealer figures that they could take the trade and fix it to sell at a good profit. Of course the cost of the repair is much cheaper for them then they quoted, but the profit will come from when they sell the car.

Of course the DIY route will be cheapest.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/14/10 9:39 a.m.
zomby woof wrote: It sure sounds fishy to me. What is a 'blown' turbo, and why would it have any affect on the motor, such that you might spin a bearing, or throw a rod. I'm surprised that the mechanics on here haven't mentioned that. Have you taken it to someone you trust for a second opinion? GM has done work out of warranty on both of my vehicles in the last few years. Minor stuff, but my only dealer visits have been warranty related, and they offered both times. If the motor really is pooched, they should at least cut you some slack. It's not like there isn't any gravy in that price.

Well, there's a lot of ways a turbo can grenade an engine, but any of them would give far more indication that something was wrong other than a "misfire code," and the car certainly wouldn't have driven fine. At the mild end of the spectrum, he would have looked like James Bond driving around with a smoke screen permanently behind him.

At the wild end, the turbo could have seized and exploded within the housing, causing the motor to ingest all those tasty parts, and i'm sure you can fill in the rest with both sounds and effects on the motor.

Either way, both scenarios are EASILY identified, and a simple look see of the turbo would tell you if either happened.

I bet that the motor is fine, the dealer knows what's wrong with it, wants to buy your car for $5k, so you'll buy another car for $20k, and then they'll sell your car again for $15k after a $500 fix at most.

They'll make $30k off of you in a week.

bamalama
bamalama Reader
1/14/10 9:50 a.m.

I had a car with a seized turbo. There was no explosion. Now I feel ripped off.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim HalfDork
1/14/10 9:58 a.m.
bamalama wrote: I had a car with a seized turbo. There was no explosion. Now I feel ripped off.

Took it to the dealer, eh?

zomby woof
zomby woof Reader
1/14/10 10:09 a.m.

My bad.

What I should have asked was, how did the turbo 'blow' such that it was able to take out your bottom end, and you didn't know it?

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
1/14/10 10:20 a.m.

Get that car to another competent mechanic in the area to have it checked out. Between the tow fee and the inspection you shouldn't be out more than $200. If not that, take JThw8 up on his incredibly generous offer and fix the thing.

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