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Dec. 15, 2011 8:39 a.m. Javelin SuperDork

Otto Maddox wrote:

I think the people saying the author isn't a car guy hasn't read the explanation provided with each car.

And I still haven't heard a good defense of any car on the list.

Okay then... He said the Pacer was worse than the Gremlin, but ranked the Gremmy "higher" on the list, which doesn't deserve to be there. It was the first domestic sub-compact car (beating the Vega, Maverick, Pinto, etc, etc) and was second in it's class only to the Beetle for shear sales numbers. In the vein of being a smaller car it was a huge success and made AMC lots of money. Then they became great drag racers and are still iconic to this day.
Dec. 15, 2011 8:52 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

Otto Maddox wrote:

I think the people saying the author isn't a car guy hasn't read the explanation provided with each car.

And I still haven't heard a good defense of any car on the list.

The TR7 handles better then most of the other TR series and it has a better seating position.
Dec. 15, 2011 8:54 a.m. mguar New Reader

In reply to BradLTL: They sure seemed to abuse GM.. I have 9 cars listed that I've either owned or really respected.. The Ariel Atom is today's Lotus super7 Blindly good at what it does and what it is for a modest cost.. I approved of one car (the Datsun B210) because it was such a good racer in it's class.. Others like the Saturn ION are remarkably reliable cars for extremely modest costs.. I bought the Chevy Monza GT w/262 and when it was time to replace the spark plugs I swapped in a 350. Brilliant handling. terrible brakes and surprisingly good gas mileage.. MY Vega GT was great and I sold it one week before it self destroyed itself.. for almost as much as I paid for it (gas crisis) The Chevette diesel got 40-50 MPG when 10-12 was more the norm.. A friend had one for 30 years and put nearly 450,000 miles on it without serious repair expenses. The last 300,000 were all on free used cooking oil..
Dec. 15, 2011 8:57 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

Otto Maddox wrote:

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

What about the Saleen? Sure, I like it. But isn't it more or less a Mosler for a large multiple of the price of a Mosler?

The Saleen looks great on paper and the pics aren't too bad. If I had half a mil to blow on a track toy - it would not have a single concession to streetworthyness. It would be a BAD car. The S7 has the makings of a BAD car. The Atom is a fun toy. It is a BAD car.

I have never been in a Saleen S7 in real life but I have instructed for the Ferrari club and been in a fair share of Lambos, a Panoz or two and a few of the kit type stuff like a Noble. I can honestly say that they all kinda suck or, I should say, they are no more awesome to drive than an Exige, 997, M3 or whatever and they are less good at being actual cars and more good at being frivolous toys. In fact, Lambos even suck as track cars. The sole purpose for them being mobile seems to be so that you can "arrive" in one so everyone knows you are a douche.
Dec. 15, 2011 9:00 a.m. Otto Maddox Dork

If our best shots at the list consist of Chevettes and Gremlins, we've already lost the battle.
Dec. 15, 2011 9:16 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

Otto Maddox wrote:

If our best shots at the list consist of Chevettes and Gremlins, we've already lost the battle.

I had an automatic Chevette for a summer. I gave it a good death by jumping it over an embankment (on purpose, helmet and everything). The struts pushed right through the towers and buckled the hood on landing. We rolled it back on its wheels - pushed them back thru the holes and hammered it closed. I drove it to the junkyard with all the windows smashed out and the roof buckled (from people jumping on it) and got $25.

I can't say it was good transportation but it was really fun for 1 day.
Dec. 15, 2011 9:53 a.m. DaewooOfDeath HalfDork

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Otto Maddox wrote:

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

What about the Saleen? Sure, I like it. But isn't it more or less a Mosler for a large multiple of the price of a Mosler?

The Saleen looks great on paper and the pics aren't too bad. If I had half a mil to blow on a track toy - it would not have a single concession to streetworthyness. It would be a BAD car. The S7 has the makings of a BAD car. The Atom is a fun toy. It is a BAD car.

I have never been in a Saleen S7 in real life but I have instructed for the Ferrari club and been in a fair share of Lambos, a Panoz or two and a few of the kit type stuff like a Noble. I can honestly say that they all kinda suck or, I should say, they are no more awesome to drive than an Exige, 997, M3 or whatever and they are less good at being actual cars and more good at being frivolous toys. In fact, Lambos even suck as track cars. The sole purpose for them being mobile seems to be so that you can "arrive" in one so everyone knows you are a douche.

Doucheman says "yes, but will obscure the reality of my 2.3 inch penis!"
Dec. 15, 2011 9:57 a.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

I would add any car that has tried to kill you to the list. I'm not talking about snap oversteer in a 911, that comes with the territory. I'm talking about a car that throws a steering rod end at high speed for no apparent reason. Or one that suddenly and inexplicably won't start when there is a semi sliding across the ice at you at high speed. Sometimes, cars seems out to get you and THOSE are the worst.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:19 a.m. chaparral Reader

He criticises the Pontiac Grand Prix V8 for having front tires wider than the rear ones, saying it was a "stupid idea".

If it was a "stupid idea", why did it work beautifully? Wider fronts than rears are exactly what you want on a powerful FWD car; and every review of the car said exactly this! It could actually put its considerable power down, and it didn't have to drag around bigger, wider rears that would've also made it harder to get the car to rotate.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:21 a.m. chaparral Reader

Next up is the FWD Lotus Elan.

They are still on the SCCA Solo stock exclusion list! Enough were imported to get them off but they're apparently still too fast for the Corvette Z06es and Porsche 911GT3s to deal with.

Moreover, it was explicitly designed to be the fastest point-to-point road car possible; Lotus did back-to-back testing with similarly configured RWD cars and could beat them every time.

It's not as if this is "a Lotus version of the Geo Storm", either - the axles are in front of the engine.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:31 a.m. Gearheadotaku Dork

I hate this list too. Anything that is interesting, different, or ahead of it's time landed on it. There were entries of cars from the 20's for crying out loud! what does that have to do with anything built in the last 40 years? What car back then wouldn't look bad compared to anything newer? Just add Miata and E30 and their list would be the GRM shopping list

I'll stand up for the Fiero, 1988 model in particular. Great handling, decent power with the V6, and well engineered space frame / plastic panel design. Ahead of it's time stuff. Yes the 4 cly was a dog and the early cars didn't handle as well, but they were fun and cheap.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:34 a.m. Otto Maddox Dork

In reply to chaparral:

It just seems stupid to go to huge lengths to make a bad idea work better. At what point is a powerful V8 front wheel drive big assed sedan a better idea than simply having rear wheel drive?
Dec. 15, 2011 10:36 a.m. Otto Maddox Dork

In reply to chaparral:

Lotus Elan - Pretty much worse than a Miata in every way for twice the price. Sure, I'd like to have one, but there are lots of bad idea cars I'd like to have.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:37 a.m. chaparral Reader

Having wider tires on the drive axle shouldn't be considered an extreme measure - very few V8 RWD cars have front tires as wide as the rears.

It allowed them to put a V8 in a somewhat lighter and cheaper car than its RWD equivalent.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:42 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

Otto Maddox wrote:

In reply to chaparral:

Lotus Elan - Pretty much worse than a Miata in every way for twice the price. Sure, I'd like to have one, but there are lots of bad idea cars I'd like to have.

Yes but it is one of the best handling front wheel drive cars ever. There are better cars in the world but it certainly isn't one of the 100 worst car ever.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:44 a.m. chaparral Reader

In reply to Otto Maddox:

I'm not too sure about that. They weigh the same, but the Elan has more power, and between the oddball driveline arrangement and my trust in Lotus I'm not too sure that the Miata handles better.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:46 a.m. nderwater SuperDork

93EXCivic wrote:

Yes but it [Lotus Elan] is one of the best handling front wheel drive cars ever. There are better cars in the world but it certainly isn't one of the 100 worst car ever.

...or even the worst Lotus.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:53 a.m. Otto Maddox Dork

In reply to nderwater:

I agree on both counts. But a list consisting of 100 American sedans from 1975-1985 would be pretty boring. You could probably fill it up halfway with just K-car variants. (Yes, I know the K-car saved Chrysler. Yes, I know people can modify them to do incredible things. But they were awful cars in stock form compared to the competition.)
Dec. 15, 2011 11:04 a.m. mad_machine SuperDork

I am surprised only one fiat made that list.

And yes.. people are far too hung up on HP anymore. Yes, new cars need 400hp to feel fast.. that's because they weigh 4000 pounds
Dec. 15, 2011 2:04 p.m. vw_jason79 New Reader

Gearheadotaku wrote:

I hate this list too. Anything that is interesting, different, or ahead of it's time landed on it. There were entries of cars from the 20's for crying out loud! what does that have to do with anything built in the last 40 years? What car back then wouldn't look bad compared to anything newer? Just add Miata and E30 and their list would be the GRM shopping list

That is exactly what I was thinking. I clicked through each one and by the time I was at car 50, I was starting to think something was wrong with my choice in cars. I would say that 80 to 90 of those cars, I would have no problem with sitting in my driveway. GRM shopping list... spot on. I was curious to read what all of my fellow oddball car loving people on here would say about the list. Well, I feel better about my weird car attractions.

... and the obsession with horsepower that the writer had while writing this list reminds me of going to car meets in random parking lots as a teenager and having your car primarily judged on its horsepower ratings.
Dec. 15, 2011 2:51 p.m. Otto Maddox Dork

The question isn't if you'd take the car now. If you were just to drop one on my doorstep, I'd take almost any of them.

Try looking at each car like this - If you were in the market for a sports car in 1993, who would have dropped $40K on a Lotus Elan? That's right, just tossed aside the keys to a $30K RX-7 TT or stepped past a loaded $18K Miata to get another $22K of bank loans for a FWD Isuzu engined car?
Dec. 15, 2011 3:11 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

But it says 'Lotus' all over it. Wasn't that worth an extra $22k? Crap, Elises (Elisi?) are Lotus bodied Toyotas and they go for $55k, Lotus sells every one they make. Having said that, I have to admit the M100 Elan is a pretty neat car but it ain't no Elise.
Dec. 15, 2011 3:35 p.m. Gasoline Reader

Wife had a Ford Windstar van for a while. Doing the rear head gasket gets old real quick.
Dec. 15, 2011 3:54 p.m. dankspeed Reader
1. 2003 Saturn Ion: Shockingly incompetent to drive and with a stupid interior to match. Kick it and your foot could get stuck in the gaps between the plastic body panels. Easily the second worst car of the 21st century.
I disagree . My wife owns an '05 and it's been a great car.
Dec. 15, 2011 10:28 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

Curmudgeon wrote:

But it says 'Lotus' all over it. Wasn't that worth an extra $22k? Crap, Elises (Elisi?) are Lotus bodied Toyotas and they go for $55k, Lotus sells every one they make. Having said that, I have to admit the M100 Elan is a pretty neat car but it ain't no Elise.

uhhhh..... you need to reconsider that one.

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