Mezzanine Reader
March 31, 2015 12:11 p.m.

I found a minty '01 Boxster S with 31k miles for $6300. The listing says the engine lost oil pressure and is blown.

So if I could get the price of the car down to more like $5k, do you think I could drop the engine off for a rebuild somewhere for less than $4k?

What would GRM do?

Ranger50 PowerDork
March 31, 2015 12:14 p.m.

Put in a LS9?

dean1484 MegaDork
March 31, 2015 12:17 p.m.

Start shopping motors? With out knowing what went wrong internally and was it run with out pressure etc the rebuild cost is unknown. Also I am sure that there are a bunch of "while you are there" things that will add up.

I looked at car-parts.com and motors seem to be between 3k for a 90K mile one and 6 K for a 30K mile one.

rcutclif HalfDork
March 31, 2015 12:17 p.m.

Looks like you can likely source a running used 3.2 for about that 4k budget:

http://www.car-part.com/

yamaha MegaDork
March 31, 2015 12:37 p.m.
Ranger50 wrote: Put in a LS9?

If you were serious, a 5.3L from a gxp grand prix, 5sp getrag box from a Cobalt SS SC/TC, and I cant remember what else is needed, a fiero guru could answer that question....

Karacticus Reader
March 31, 2015 12:45 p.m.

I dunno-- for the Boxter/Cayman, I'm under the impression that if you're consider doing the swap yourself, you should include the price of a lift in your calculations.

March 31, 2015 12:48 p.m.

I picked up a 986 with a popped motor for $2400 back in August. Get it, then get a 5.3L chevy truck and contact these guys and enjoy all the glory

GameboyRMH MegaDork
March 31, 2015 12:52 p.m.

This might be the first time that someone said a car lost oil pressure and blew the engine as a way of hiding a bigger problem - like an IMS bearing failure that led to a bunch of bent valves, perhaps.

bgkast UltraDork
March 31, 2015 12:56 p.m.

Too much cheddar. $3k? Maybe...

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
March 31, 2015 1:03 p.m.

I'm in the V8 camp.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ HalfDork
March 31, 2015 1:14 p.m.

Install Subaru 4 cylinder. Add 914 badges. Troll.

March 31, 2015 1:22 p.m.

That's too much money for a clean shell. Like others have said I'd pay $3k for the shell. Then drop in whatever engine you'd like.

BoxheadTim UltimaDork
March 31, 2015 1:32 p.m.
Mezzanine wrote: do you think I could drop the engine off for a rebuild somewhere for less than $4k?

You can't unless you can do all the work yourself and don't need too many parts.

Just labour to strip down the 3.4L in my 996 to the crank cradle (ie, without actually getting to the crank and replacing those bearings as well) and build it back up again at a decent local Porker specialist cost me about 50% more than your budget without even factoring any parts cost. Granted, that including engine removal and installation, but the engine didn't need that many parts to begin with.

If it's not too berkeleyed up internally, you may be able to DIY the engine rebuild for that sort of money for parts only, but even that is not going to pay for major replacement components.

A running, used engine of unknown provenance will also cost you more than $4k and you probably want to at least do an IMS bearing plus the cam chain guides before popping it in.

Dr. Hess MegaDork
March 31, 2015 1:46 p.m.

I'm not a P car guy, but that seems high to me for a 01 with a blown motor. Get it a lot cheaper and LSx or 1UZFE swap? Or the subie thing with BOOST.

The one I drove cornered nicely but was low on power. I thought it was an interesting car.

bmw88rider HalfDork
March 31, 2015 1:56 p.m.

Personally....I'd run. Way too much for a popped motor car. That needs to be in the 2-3K range and even then I'd only pick it up if there was a good swap you wanted to do to it.

Adrian_Thompson UltimaDork
March 31, 2015 2:10 p.m.

People keep throwing out engine swaps as if it's an easy job. From what I've seen it's far far far from easy. The kits are barely more than a dodgy poorly engineered adaptor plate, at least of the rear engine cars. You're on your own for most of it. Also due to the number of cars with popped motors, the only cost effective way to do it is to buy a car with a good motor and sell it to offset the cost. The gearing is also wrong for a high torque at low rpm V8 compared to a low torque flat 6 for street use, unless you get into the $$$ of swapping final drive ratio. Costs to do a V8 swap seem to be more than replacing a stock engine.

NordicSaab Reader
March 31, 2015 2:28 p.m.

Little known fact The transmission in the boxster/cayman is an audi part. it should bolt right up to either an audi v8 or turbo 5v... just a thought.

NOHOME UltraDork
March 31, 2015 2:43 p.m.

IF you are working this from a sound business plan, work it backwards:

What would the car be worth if it was good to go? You need to pay yourself at least 2k for the PITA factor of sourcing and installing a new engine; it will be considerable and expect to pay 1k over engine price for E36 M3 you have not thought of, by the time it is in.

So if they want 6k and you see 6k going into the install, can you buy the same car for 12 and save the work? If 12k is about the market price for the finished car, then you need to claw back 2k from the seller to make it worth your time and effort.

If on the other hand the car with a new engine is going to be worth 15k then you can make your money on the other end.

As to the engine swap option, I want to suggest that only people who have pulled off a swap be allowed to put this option forth. Swaps are a boatload of work and money that cant be anticipated. Most require a level of fiscal negligence seldom seen outside of the federal Gov.

dj06482
dj06482 SuperDork
March 31, 2015 2:48 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: Swaps are a boatload of work and money that cant be anticipated. Most require a level of fiscal negligence seldom seen outside of the federal Gov.

That should be in the magazine...

bmw88rider HalfDork
March 31, 2015 3:03 p.m.

That's exactly why I say run for the hills.

On the best day that car is worth 13K-15K finished. Even if you find a perfect stock motor to swap in there (the ground is thin) You will still want to replace the IMS bearing and Clutch plus tune up items etc so you will be in this thing for 6K before you even get the motor installed.

Then book labor hours for a motor swap on that car are in the 20-30 hour range. So there is $2500 (typically your profit) So we are at approximately $8500 for the parts and your profit.

That asking price needs to be cut in half to make it even worth thinking about it and really cut down 60% to even think about not just making it a parts car.

Mezzanine Reader
March 31, 2015 3:32 p.m.
NOHOME wrote: IF you are working this from a sound business plan, work it backwards: What would the car be worth if it was good to go? You need to pay yourself at least 2k for the PITA factor of sourcing and installing a new engine; it will be considerable and expect to pay 1k over engine price for E36 M3 you have not thought of, by the time it is in. So if they want 6k and you see 6k going into the install, can you buy the same car for 12 and save the work? If 12k is about the market price for the finished car, then you need to claw back 2k from the seller to make it worth your time and effort. If on the other hand the car with a new engine is going to be worth 15k then you can make your money on the other end. As to the engine swap option, I want to suggest that only people who have pulled off a swap be allowed to put this option forth. Swaps are a boatload of work and money that cant be anticipated. Most require a level of fiscal negligence seldom seen outside of the federal Gov.

Funny you should suggest going about it this way... It just so happens we're in perfect alignment, as this is exactly why I threw the $4k replacement motor price out there. Because if I landed the car for <$5k, added $4k worth of motor and $2k worth of hassle, I'd still be ahead of the ~$13-15k value, which is the only way I'd be interested in taking something like this on.

As it stands, I might make time to go see the car and feel out the hunger level of the buyer. He implied in the listing that it has been sitting in their garage for a few years in busted form, and the plates have tabs from 2009... I'm guessing he isn't all that hungry, but those circumstances could yield the "Is THAT all it is worth? Bummer. OK, I'll take $3k." sort of response we're all looking for.

March 31, 2015 4:53 p.m.

Since it's been sitting for a few years, I would suggest buying it for only $2K. You're looking at other issues it will have from not being driven, like a coolant flush, brake fluid change,tires, etc... and those are the expected items.

Curmudgeon MegaDork
March 31, 2015 5:28 p.m.

Blown motors in Boxsters are pretty common, common enough that a buyer will be very leery of one that's just had the engine replaced, so I wouldn't go into this looking for a flip. If you do go for a swap I'd go for the Subie, a turbo WRX motor would make it very entertaining, depending on the year they are from 227 to 280 HP. If you go with the SVX motor it's pretty close to the HP the stock one put out, 207 to 240 HP depending on year etc.

WRX swap parts:

http://www.boxsterengineconversion.com/parts-list-with-prices.html

OBTW: Porsche parts come with a Porsche tax. That means it's very doubtful you could rebuild the stock engine on a $4k budget. This thread http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/21928-boxster-engine-rebuilds/ says anywhere from $7k to $11k IF the main bits are good.

NGTD UltraDork
March 31, 2015 6:10 p.m.

My rule is a car with a popped motor is worth the price used minus the cost of fixing the motor. Go read BoxheadTim's build thread , if you want to suitably scared about the cost of a Porsche rebuild.

I look for cars with blown motors for scrap value. Porsche or no Porsche, there is a reason why the current owner is not fixing it.

I have an 05 WRX wagon in my driveway that follows my rule -$500.

Streetwiseguy PowerDork
March 31, 2015 6:43 p.m.

I'd offer to take it away if he gives you $1000. I know how badly a budget can explode trying to fix a damn Neon or Integra, and I can only imagine it would be way worse in Porkyland.

If you insist, I'd have a known good engine in hand before I dragged the car home. All you ever hear about those things is how many engines are pooched, so I can't imagine it would be super easy to find a good used one.

Engine swap if you wish to keep it. You will have to find one of the lunatics from this board with cash to sell one with a Subaru swap for more than pocket change.

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