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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Yet another what car thread

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Dec. 3, 2009 9:31 a.m. Adrian_Thompson Reader

OK, a friends 17 year old son is looking for a replacement for his Ford Escape, something a little more interesting to a 17 year old guy. Requirements are:
Fun
Manual
4 seats
Affordable insurance
Affordable parts
New enough to have air bags and preferably ABS
Usable 24/7/365 as an only car for high school collage with a reasonable chance of no major bills.
Under $3k for a reasonable one not needing money spent on it.

Let's start of with the not's
1. Miata, too small
2. E30 too old, no airbags or ABS
3. Honda's hold the value too much.
4. Toyota's, he doesn't want to die of terminal boredom or go broke when their mythical reliability proves to be just that, a myth.

Possibilities, this is what I've come up with. Feel free to add anything that doesn't have the word 'Toyota' on any part of it!!!
1. DSM, the FWD NA version not the AWD Turbo. I don't know much about these but believe they are pretty reliable in FWD/NA form
2. ZX2, great platform, nice engine, SR suspension available form the dealer
3. ZX3, awesome platform
4. E36 3 series, RWD, plentiful, not sure if you can get one rust free in this price range in SE Mi though.
5. Nissan Sentra SER, lsd, yummy
6. Neon DOHC, simple as dirt, cheap as dirt, fun as hell
7. Can you get Imprezza 2.5RS's for this money yet?

Forgetting the 4 seat bit for a mo.
FC RX7, I had one and loved it. What's insurance like on these?
And yes a Miata of course

And while he doesn't know it yet I fully plan on dragging him to an autocross next year to start him on the slippery slope to hell :)
Dec. 3, 2009 9:51 a.m. DukeOfUndersteer Dork

I'm kinda thinking E36....
Dec. 3, 2009 9:54 a.m. RossD HalfDork

Late 90s mustang? The back seat can almost hold two adults...
Dec. 3, 2009 9:55 a.m. Adrian_Thompson Reader

Yeah, but so far Craig's lest has let me down.

I also forgot the Escort GT (CT20 version), ZX2 SR suspension drops right in and it's got a BP in it.
Dec. 3, 2009 9:57 a.m. Adrian_Thompson Reader

RossD wrote:

Late 90s mustang? The back seat can almost hold two adults...

I'de done the Mustang thing for many many years, so has his dad. I'm not recomending that one. Also a V8 Mustang fails on the insurance part and a 4 cyl Mustang (other than SVO) fails on just about every level I can imagine. Also Fox bodies never had ABS, although swapping it in from an SN95 isn't hard. Forget it, Mustang in off the list.

As an aside the back seat of Fox bodies is realativly massive. 4 adults Mi to Fl no problem, the SN95 was far more cramped.
Dec. 3, 2009 9:59 a.m. Greg Voth Reader

I would think the E36 is good option if he can do any repairs needed by himself. From what I have seen a $3k E36 probably needs another $2k to be good to go.

2.5RS are going to be tough to find in that range. A good 2.2 in that range will be hard to find. That said my wife has a 2000 2.2 5speed wagon and I love it. Aside from routine stuff it has been reliable and a hoot to drive. They are pretty slow and getting power out of them is not cheap nor easy. I would say a great choice for a 17 yr old.
Dec. 3, 2009 10:02 a.m. JFX001 Dork

The SE-R sounds like a good choice....Saturn SC2....318 ti....
Dec. 3, 2009 10:07 a.m. Adrian_Thompson Reader

Greg Voth wrote:

I would think the E36 is good option if he can do any repairs needed by himself. From what I have seen a $3k E36 probably needs another $2k to be good to go.

2.5RS are going to be tough to find in that range. A good 2.2 in that range will be hard to find. That said my wife has a 2000 2.2 5speed wagon and I love it. Aside from routine stuff it has been reliable and a hoot to drive. They are pretty slow and getting power out of them is not cheap nor easy. I would say a great choice for a 17 yr old.

He can do repairs, he recently bought a beat up POS Chevy thing, I think it was Cavalier or similar. Re-did the brakes, painted the front end, cleaned it up and flipped it for a few $$'s.

But $3k means $3K, not $3k + $2k in repairs.

HHmm will have to hunt around on 2.2L scoobies
Dec. 3, 2009 10:08 a.m. Adrian_Thompson Reader

JFX001 wrote:

The SE-R sounds like a good choice....Saturn SC2....318 ti....

SC2, good call, I forgot that.

E36 318ti's go for silly money and probably fall into the same trap as regular E36'smentioned above.
Dec. 3, 2009 10:09 a.m. socalwrench New Reader

2nd gen Neon: simple to understand, good quality, low cost, easy to maintain, decent aftermarket, superior handling (for it's class), good mileage, good power (for it's class).

SOHC or DOHC: both similar power. The DOHC does have a better flowing head, and is easier to boost later on since many of the SRT-4 stuff can be used.

The turbo version, the SRT-4, is also an option- but will definitely cost more.
Dec. 3, 2009 10:10 a.m. Tom_Spangler Reader

Mid 90s Probe GT/Mazda MX6?

I'd be scared of a $3k E36 if the goal is to be able to just drive it without major work. I know they exist, but they are pretty rare.
Dec. 3, 2009 10:13 a.m. bequietanddrive New Reader

Dude, you're scared of Toyota and reccomending a DSM? I'm tripping balls...

Anyway, SW20 MR2, non-turbo. Camry motor. Very reliable. Fun. Might not be big enough for your guy though.

Edit: Sorry, missed the 4 seater requirement.

How about a P71 Crown Vic? People here are more familiar with their relability than I am but they seem sturdy, and what the hell could be cooler to a 17 your old guy than cruising around like a cop? RWD, lots of power, lots of backseat space for sexy times.
Dec. 3, 2009 10:14 a.m. DukeOfUndersteer Dork

How clean is his record?
Dec. 3, 2009 10:28 a.m. Greg Voth Reader

Oh oh I know. Have him buy Tom's Neon (Rallycross Project Car) http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/1996-dodge-neon-acr/

$2009 should take it without the spares. $2500 with rally tires and a whole host of other parts. And you he gets to make a nice winter trip to FL.
Dec. 3, 2009 10:31 a.m. 81gtv6 Reader

How about a 99 SAAB 9-3? On the surface it meets all of the above requirments with the added benifit of being a turbo that will run on regular gas and the 99's still ran the T5 engine management system that will let you really wake the car kup with under $100 in mods.
Dec. 3, 2009 10:42 a.m. Joe Gearin Associate Publisher

Late 90's Saturn SL2 or SW2

Cheap

Reasonably fun and nimble

Safe

Good on gas

Easy to maintain
Dec. 3, 2009 11:19 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

Another vote for E36. Easy to work on, reasonable parts prices, fun, fast.

Although... does a 17yr old need a 4 seater? IMO that is just 2 additional friends to coax him into trying to jump a canyon. Nobody takes too many irresponsible friends along in their Miata....
Dec. 3, 2009 11:20 a.m. DukeOfUndersteer Dork

What about Volkswagen/Audi?
Dec. 3, 2009 11:24 a.m. mtn SuperDork

Adrian_Thompson wrote: 2. E30 too old, no airbags or ABS

This is news to me and my E30 with a steering wheel that says SRS and brakes that do not lock up....
Dec. 3, 2009 11:27 a.m. mtn SuperDork

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

HHmm will have to hunt around on 2.2L scoobies

I autocrossed a 200xxx mile 2.2 that at one point had been running for 5 minutes with no engine oil. If I hadn't known that and seen the paint, you could have told me it was brand new and I would have believed it.
Dec. 3, 2009 11:52 a.m. Travis_K Dork

Neon, saturn, impreza are probably all good choices. Maybe a volvo 850?
Dec. 3, 2009 11:59 a.m. 4eyes Reader

DukeOfUndersteer wrote:

What about Volkswagen/Audi?

He's baggin on Toyota reliability and you suggest VAG BWAHAahahahaha Don't understand the Toyohate, pick up a Consumer Report and see the truth of reliability.
Dec. 3, 2009 12:05 p.m. DukeOfUndersteer Dork

4eyes wrote:

DukeOfUndersteer wrote:

What about Volkswagen/Audi?

He's baggin on Toyota reliability and you suggest VAG BWAHAahahahaha Don't understand the Toyohate, pick up a Consumer Report and see the truth of reliability.

Well dude, i have a 2.slow with 215,000 miles that has been a hella reliable....
Dec. 3, 2009 1:49 p.m. Travis_K Dork

I have seen mk2 vws with 400k+ miles on them. But, when i looked at some for sale, I would have been scared to even drive them home (even with less than half that many miles). Id say if you are looking for a car that for $3k doesnt need money put into it, avoid anything european.
Dec. 3, 2009 2:38 p.m. Adrian_Thompson Reader

bequietanddrive wrote:

Dude, you're scared of Toyota and reccomending a DSM? I'm tripping balls...
Most things I say about Toyota are tongue in cheek. But the bit about ending up dead through terminal boredom is 100% true. Toyota quit building cars worth considering close to 20 years ago and are generally overrated POS's. The DSM came from him as he found an add for one.

bequietanddrive wrote: How about a P71 Crown Vic? People here are more familiar with their relability than I am but they seem sturdy, and what the hell could be cooler to a 17 your old guy than cruising around like a cop? RWD, lots of power, lots of backseat space for sexy times.
No P71's, outside this wonderful collection of weirdo's here, no many people see P71's as anything but granny mobiles. Having spent 3 years of my life working on the design for the front suspension of the 2002 EN/FN platform I'm one of you weirdo's, I love em. BUT, no manual trans and this isn't intended as a major project car.

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