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  Feb. 4, 2011 2:19 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  Well, I don't like my truck much, nor do I like SUVs that much but it looks like we'd want to retain something this big (for the tow rating and occasional furniture shopping trips & garage sales) that's got a more flexible interior. '90s Suburbans would fit the bill and for some reason, they also seem to be a little cheaper than the P/U trucks out here. Oh, and it will have to be a 4x4 due to the fact that I live in the mountains and it does tend to snow out here.

  After doing a little CL window shopping, I've got a couple of questions for those in the know:

  • Are the Vortec ones any better on fuel than the pre-Vortec ones? I know they're more powerful, but are they different enough to seek them out specifically and potentially pay more for one?
  • Are the following generation ones that much better (especially the 2500 with the 6L) that it's worth holding out for a 2001 as they're just about getting into my budget?
  • I'm toying with the idea of a 6.5TD, even though they're pretty hard to find out here. I know about the PMD issue but supposedly there are also some block issues? Anybody can shed a light on that?

  So far it looks like the ideal one would be the TD with some mods to get more power out of it. The big block is kinda out due to the fuel consumption - my commute is a 50 mile round trip and I'll have to use the Suburban for that in winter, so < 10 mpg is really not acceptable

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  Feb. 4, 2011 3:06 p.m. wcelliot HalfDork

  Vortec versus non-Vortec: Not even close. Vortec is MUCH more powerful and responsive and gets significnatly better mileage. This is true whether it's the 350 or 454 (though even in Vortec form the 454 mileage is abysmal and I would stay away from it as you seem already inclined to do... if you need the towing ability, do the 6.5TD... which in 1500 formcan get 20mpg but which in 2500 form (due to the gearing) is likely to get about the same as the 350 (unleaden) with highway gearing.)

  1999-2001 The construction quality seemed to go down somewhat (the later trucks overall don't seem quite as solid) BUT the brakes are 100% better and the steering (until it ages some) is about 25% better. Once it ages some (100k) it's about 25% worse unless you spend about $500 on it. I like the later interior better though the earlier one seems roomier.

  One really interesting aspect is that the 5.3, while having more power but less low end torque than the 5.7, gets 4mpg worse in my 2002 Avalance than the 5.7 got in my '99 burb with the same gearing (unladen). 14 vs 18.

  The later transmission "tow/haul" setting is extremely well done and allows me to safely tow in OD vice 3rd like I always did with the '99, so towing mileage is actually a little better despite the unladen difference.

  What I think I'd really like is the newer truck with the 5.7. And that's the way the 6.0 has been described to me, but I've never owned one. But I suspect the 6.0 mileage is even worse than the bad 5.3 mileage....

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  Feb. 4, 2011 3:57 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  Thanks - sounds like I should either be looking for the 5.7 Vortec Suburban or a TD. I'm still hoping I can find a reasonably priced TD once I sell my truck.

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  Feb. 4, 2011 4:30 p.m. wcelliot HalfDork

  I'm shopping for one as well... I'll pass along leads from out your way.

  I want a 1500 6.5td (for the higher gearing), 4x4 (for the 4x4), and leather seats. '98-99 with this package would usually have heated seats as well. Have not been able to find a decent lowish mileage one yet...

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  Feb. 4, 2011 4:35 p.m. modernbeat HalfDork

  For the record, my '03 2500 with the 6.0 gets between 12-13 mpg unladen, and 9-11 mpg with a decent sized enclosed trailer behind it. If I can keep my speed down when unladen I've seen as much as 14, but that's rare. And most of my traveling is highway miles. I don't have a commute anymore.

  I'm also in the market for a '91-99 Suburban and asked about them on Corner Carvers. I'm looking for a 2wd 2500. The advice I got was to get the small block Vortec unless I was willing to hot-rod the engine. I'd look at the diesels, but the premium purchase price for diesels makes them unappealing.

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  Feb. 4, 2011 4:39 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  Right, that basically means the 6.0 is out - for that sort of fuel mileage I'd rather have a Land Cruiser.

  I've seen a couple of TDs out here, I'm just not shopping seriously yet as I have to sell the truck first and it's not exactly truck-selling weather yet.

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  Feb. 4, 2011 4:54 p.m. Bobzilla Dork

  wcelliot wrote:

  I'm shopping for one as well... I'll pass along leads from out your way.

  I want a 1500 6.5td (for the higher gearing), 4x4 (for the 4x4), and leather seats. '98-99 with this package would usually have heated seats as well. Have not been able to find a decent lowish mileage one yet...

  yeah... good luck. You're looking for the unicorn there. THose that have them, won't let them go. Those that want them are usually willing to pay whatever price they ask.

  I'd love a 1500 Tahoe 6.5TD.

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  Feb. 4, 2011 4:59 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  Hence my question about the Vortec - there are a couple TDs for sale around here, but they're few and far between and I'm not sure that I want another high mileage vehicle.

  Trouble is, AADD also just struck as a local small dealer has a series II Discovery for sale with less than 100k on it...

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  Feb. 4, 2011 4:59 p.m. wcelliot HalfDork

  I'd love a 1500 Tahoe 6.5TD.

  You know I have never even seen one of those... ever!

  I recently looked at a cheap '97 with all of the above that I'm seeking... 150k, etc... even a clean carfax... but the truck was beat all to heck. I'd have guessed 300k...

  Maybe I can find an early 70's 3dr 4x4 and drop a 4BT in it... ;-)

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  Feb. 4, 2011 5:02 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  There was a '71 for sale in LA(?) recently with a GM 6.5 stuffed under the hood. Looked like a nice truck, but I didn't want to bother with out-of-state lien sales.

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  Feb. 4, 2011 5:05 p.m. wcelliot HalfDork

  I could certainly rock that....

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  Feb. 5, 2011 1:48 p.m. wcelliot HalfDork

  Just talked to an aquaintance about his 2005 5.3 Suburban. He adores it. It even has the 4.10 rear, yet he claims 18-20mpg on the highway (where I get 14 with 3.73 gears and a marginally lighter vehicle). I think he has the same spec engine (before the cylinder deactivation) so possibly the low mileage my Avalanche gets is not the norm? (Or I drive a heck of a lot faster than he does... possible) Just another data point for you...

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  Feb. 5, 2011 2:29 p.m. Bobzilla Dork

  wcelliot wrote:

  I'd love a 1500 Tahoe 6.5TD.

  You know I have never even seen one of those... ever!

  I recently looked at a cheap '97 with all of the above that I'm seeking... 150k, etc... even a clean carfax... but the truck was beat all to heck. I'd have guessed 300k...

  Maybe I can find an early 70's 3dr 4x4 and drop a 4BT in it... ;-)

  I've never seen one in person, but have seen two for sale. Like all GM diesel's they were really proud of it according to the price.

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  Feb. 5, 2011 3:37 p.m. racerfink HalfDork

  My '96 Chevy 1500 Ext. Cab with the 350 Vortec (the first year for the Vortec) gets about 20mpg on the highway, and a little over 14 around town. I still get around 17mpg towing the racecar. It now has over 231k miles on the clock, and still runs great. With the difference in price between gas and diesel at the pumps, you could save yourself a good chunk of change with the vortec.

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  Feb. 5, 2011 9:40 p.m. novaderrik HalfDork

  i'd say to get a 95.. they still had the TBI engine that runs forever and they had the updated interior. the 96 and newer vortec motors make more power, but the TBI motors are dead simple and won't leave you stranded with a hydrolocked motor when the fuel pressure regulator decides do die. also, the intake gaskets don't go bad on the TBI motors like on the vortecs...

  my cousin has a 95 1500 4X4 that knocks down 18-20 mpg on long road trips with his 3 kids, wife, himself, and all the stuff they need for 2 week long road trips around the country. it has 240,000 miles on it and still starts up right away and drives beautifully.

  just this summer, i purchased a 2wd 95 Sub that had 375,000 miles showing on the odometer. i paid $225 for it.. it ran and drove like it was brand new, but it did have a light bulb out in the dash- they charge like $15 for those bulbs at NAPA..

  i sold it to my brother, and he never had a problem with over the summer. they just sold it last weekend since they really didn't need it.

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  Feb. 5, 2011 10:49 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  novaderrik wrote:

  i'd say to get a 95.. they still had the TBI engine that runs forever and they had the updated interior. the 96 and newer vortec motors make more power, but the TBI motors are dead simple and won't leave you stranded with a hydrolocked motor when the fuel pressure regulator decides do die. also, the intake gaskets don't go bad on the TBI motors like on the vortecs...

  Tell that to the guy who had to get the bad intake gasket changed on his '95 Sierra with a 350...

  TBH the 350 TBI is a bit marginal in a 1500 truck for the mountain roads around here and that doesn't do the fuel consumption any favours.

  We're also considering just keeping the paid for Sierra - it's not my favourite vehicle, but we've addressed most of the issues with it, and get an additional four door car with good fuel economy for the stupid amount of miles we do at the moment (approx 2k/month).

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