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  • Jensenman

    Aug. 28, 2008 6:32 a.m. Jensenman UltimaDork

    njansenv wrote:

    I respect athiests and their (wrong:) ) beliefs. Looking at some of the posts above, it's a shame some of you (not all) don't return that respect.

    But I'll refrain from the use of the word "intolerant." sigh.

    Nathan

    I may be an atheist,but you will never see me look someone religious in the eye and say 'you are an idiot for believing as you do'. There's been more than once that the reverse has ocurred, though. It appears many of a religious bent have no problem with my atheism as long as I STFU.

  • ignorant

    Aug. 28, 2008 6:57 a.m. ignorant UberDork

    I live by the.. If it brings them joy and dosen't harm anyone then I'm cool with it rule.

    I will say that mentioning "atheist" to some Jehovah's witnesses at my door the other day, got me off in about 2 seconds flat. And I didn't even have to touch a copy of the "The Watchtower"

  • 81gtv6

    Aug. 28, 2008 8:18 a.m. 81gtv6 New Reader

    I will second ignorant, live and let live is how I have tried to do things.

    I am a Christian, I go to church about half of the time and my father is a minister. One of the biggest things my dad tried to get throught to my brother and I groing up was there are always going to be shiny happy people in every walk of life and they usually seem to make the most noise. The best thing to do is ignore them and go about your business.

    I also have never understood this all or nothing attitude on both sides of the " how did the world start" issue. Science has not been able to come up with a good explination as to how things started but there is physical evidence that is not talked about in the bible or any other religious texts, it seems to me the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    The thing that gets me the most about many church goers is that they seem to take what is in the bible at face value and use it in pieces. What we read today is a translation of a translation of a translation of a dream or something along those lines. Taking what is in the bible litterly, to me, is just setting yourself up for failure.

    Be tolerant and respect other people, is that so hard?

    But on the other hand I could be completely retarded.

  • captainzib

    Aug. 28, 2008 8:20 a.m. captainzib New Reader

    Here's a funny 'article' that pertains to the science half of this discussion. But I'm sure everyone should get a kick out of it. http://www.cracked.com/article_16583_5-scientific-experiments-most-likely-end-worl...

  • GlennS

    Aug. 28, 2008 9:52 a.m. GlennS HalfDork

    thank you captainzib. that was funny

  • aircooled

    Aug. 28, 2008 10:30 a.m. aircooled Dork

    njansenv wrote: I respect athiests and their (wrong:) ) beliefs. Looking at some of the posts above, it's a shame some of you (not all) don't return that respect...

    You may, but it is a pretty standard practice of Christianity to try and convince atheists and non-Christians they are wrong, which is proselytizing of course. You rarely see (not sure I have ever seen it) "non-believers" going around trying to convince of there position, and it certainly is not a pillar of their belief (or lack of) that is seems to be in Christianity.

  • GameboyRMH

    Aug. 28, 2008 11:04 a.m. GameboyRMH Dork

    captainzib wrote:

    Here's a funny 'article' that pertains to the science half of this discussion. But I'm sure everyone should get a kick out of it. http://www.cracked.com/article_16583_5-scientific-experiments-most-likely-end-worl...

    LMAO! Just added cracked.com to my RSS feeds. I can't beleive I've never seen that site before.

  • GregTivo

    Aug. 28, 2008 12:38 p.m. GregTivo New Reader

    81gtv6 wrote:

    But on the other hand I could be completely retarded.

    However, that's the kind of retarded I can jump on board (clad in protective padding and a football helmet) with

  • neon4891

    Aug. 28, 2008 12:47 p.m. neon4891 Dork

    I like how just about all the best Sci Fi writers are on the list

  • Gearhead_42

    Aug. 28, 2008 1:12 p.m. Gearhead_42 HalfDork

    ignorant wrote:

    I will say that mentioning "atheist" to some Jehovah's witnesses at my door the other day, got me off in about 2 seconds flat. And I didn't even have to touch a copy of the "The Watchtower"

    Even better is to live 2 doors down from a hall...

    They NEVER knock on any door within 3 blocks

  • alfadriver

    Aug. 28, 2008 2:00 p.m. alfadriver Reader

    njansenv wrote:

    I respect athiests and their (wrong:) ) beliefs. Looking at some of the posts above, it's a shame some of you (not all) don't return that respect.

    Nathan

    Um... No, you don't.

    If you did, you would not feel the need to put "(wrong:))." Even with the smiley face, it's still disrepectful.

    I'm a Christian, too. And I'm amazed how some of you view the athiests on this board as intolerant. As far as I can tell, they are bending over backwards to learn and listen, but since some of you pre-judge them as athiests, then they must be intolerant.

    Yea, all 100 "jokes" were very anti Religion. But that IS the thread name.

    The one part of Christianity that I do no buy is that this is the one and only religion. As that, by definition, rules that 80% of the world's population will not be in Heaven. I just can't wrap my head around that.

    But I'm fully up on Christ's teachings of tolerance, love, and forgiveness.

    And if you don't? Fine, I'll still do my best to enjoy the world with you.

    Eric

  • Salanis

    Aug. 28, 2008 2:10 p.m. Salanis Dork

    alfadriver wrote:

    The one part of Christianity that I do no buy is that this is the one and only religion. As that, by definition, rules that 80% of the world's population will not be in Heaven. I just can't wrap my head around that.

    Excellent point. I like to point out that whatever passage that is in the Bible states that "God so loved the world...", and not: "God so loved a particular ethnic tribe living in a portion of the Middle East..." According to Christian doctrine: prior to the resurrection of Jesus, only Jews went to heaven. After the resurrection of Jesus, only Christians did.

    That leads to the Christian argument that you need to go and and spread the word so that people can have the opportunity to go to heaven. But it means that you're automatically going to hell if you're someone in an isolated region that has never had contact with anyone who is Christian. Everyone in the Americas was just berkeleyed up until about the 15th - 16th centuries.

  • rob_lewis

    Aug. 28, 2008 2:28 p.m. rob_lewis Dork

    alfadriver wrote:

    njansenv wrote:

    I respect athiests and their (wrong:) ) beliefs. Looking at some of the posts above, it's a shame some of you (not all) don't return that respect.

    Nathan

    Um... No, you don't.

    If you did, you would not feel the need to put "(wrong:))." Even with the smiley face, it's still disrepectful.

    I'm a Christian, too. And I'm amazed how some of you view the athiests on this board as intolerant. As far as I can tell, they are bending over backwards to learn and listen, but since some of you pre-judge them as athiests, then they must be intolerant.

    ...... Eric

    Thank you.

    -Rob

  • GregTivo

    Aug. 28, 2008 3:33 p.m. GregTivo New Reader

    Salanis wrote:

    That leads to the Christian argument that you need to go and and spread the word so that people can have the opportunity to go to heaven. But it means that you're automatically going to hell if you're someone in an isolated region that has never had contact with anyone who is Christian. Everyone in the Americas was just berkeleyed up until about the 15th - 16th centuries.

    I believe there was a clause about purgatory. Also, no one is going to heaven or hell until the end of time I believe (based on some literal translations others have told me). We all get to go spend some time chillin in limbo while God finishes the paperwork. I'll try and let you guys know when I get there. I think purgatory might be the only place an Iphone might work.

  • Salanis

    Aug. 28, 2008 3:43 p.m. Salanis Dork

    GregTivo wrote:

    I believe there was a clause about purgatory. Also, no one is going to heaven or hell until the end of time I believe (based on some literal translations others have told me). We all get to go spend some time chillin in limbo while God finishes the paperwork. I'll try and let you guys know when I get there. I think purgatory might be the only place an Iphone might work.

    Purgatory is boring. I'd like to renegotiate my contract. Can I be slated to get blitzed in Valhalla while waiting to fight in the final battles of Ragnarok?

  • GregTivo

    Aug. 28, 2008 3:48 p.m. GregTivo New Reader

    Salanis wrote:

    GregTivo wrote:

    I believe there was a clause about purgatory. Also, no one is going to heaven or hell until the end of time I believe (based on some literal translations others have told me). We all get to go spend some time chillin in limbo while God finishes the paperwork. I'll try and let you guys know when I get there. I think purgatory might be the only place an Iphone might work.

    Purgatory is boring. I'd like to renegotiate my contract. Can I be slated to get blitzed in Valhalla while waiting to fight in the final battles of Ragnarok?

    Don't know, but if you find a way, make sure to let me know. I'm actually hoping to hook up with 'Q' and wander around the universe messin with other species.

  • jamscal

    Aug. 28, 2008 4:01 p.m. jamscal HalfDork

    alfadriver wrote:

    The one part of Christianity that I do no buy is that this is the one and only religion. As that, by definition, rules that 80% of the world's population will not be in Heaven. I just can't wrap my head around that.

    I think our last pope said that Christianity isn't the only way into heaven, so at least us Catholics have caught up with the times. :)

    BTW, it's not "Fair", but if there is an omnipotent god, he would be well within his rights to let 80% of you guys go to hell. :o

    Just joking.

    Finally, I think this is a quote from Pascal. I don't feel like googling, but I remember it and like it. Sort of speaks to the fallen state of the church vs. a real heaven.

    "Many are canonized on earth, that will never be saints in Heaven."

    There is a idea in Catholicism that the church is always in need of reform.

    -James

  • Salanis

    Aug. 28, 2008 4:06 p.m. Salanis Dork

    jamscal wrote:

    I think our last pope said that Christianity isn't the only way into heaven, so at least us Catholics have caught up with the times. :)

    Isn't that kind of counter to the core tenets of Christianity? How exactly does it work that Jesus is the only way into heaven and Jesus is not the only way into heaven?

  • Osterkraut

    Aug. 28, 2008 4:58 p.m. Osterkraut Reader

    Salanis wrote:

    jamscal wrote:

    I think our last pope said that Christianity isn't the only way into heaven, so at least us Catholics have caught up with the times. :)

    Isn't that kind of counter to the core tenets of Christianity? How exactly does it work that Jesus is the only way into heaven and Jesus is not the only way into heaven?

    Christianity now is so "buffet" that it doesn't matter at all. Read the bible? It's berkeleyed up, and a modern Christian should be appalled at what it contains. The Book of Judges (and many others) read like a Steven King novel.

  • belteshazzar

    Aug. 28, 2008 6:28 p.m. belteshazzar Dork

    SO much misunderstanding in one thread.

  • Canute

    Aug. 28, 2008 7:00 p.m. Canute None

    I feel no need to be tolerant of a belief system which at its core is intolerant and its followers frequently violently so. I also detest the long shadow of the Bible, a book ignorant of 2000 years of scientific and social learning, on our governance. For example, there are stem cell based therapies right now that could be saving lives. They're not because of government restrictions on developing these therapies due to a supposedly compassionate religion. My argument against creation is that our flawed bodies were supposed to be patterned on a perfect being. Take my appendix (please!) It is unnecessary for our survival. A perfect being would not have one, so why do we? It does not compute :). Life is difficult enough without having to think about random acts of the supernatural. No miracles, curses, voodoo, ghosts or witches for me, thanks. I have enough thinking about Great Whites when I go Scuba diving and Mountain Lions when I go out in the woods and crazy/high humans when I go for walks at night in the city. I really do enjoy a good Koontz or King novel, though :).

  • jamscal

    Aug. 28, 2008 7:49 p.m. jamscal HalfDork

    Salanis wrote:

    jamscal wrote:

    I think our last pope said that Christianity isn't the only way into heaven, so at least us Catholics have caught up with the times. :)

    Isn't that kind of counter to the core tenets of Christianity? How exactly does it work that Jesus is the only way into heaven and Jesus is not the only way into heaven?

    ^^^Example of how you'll never please everyone :)

    I'm not up on the exact theology, but they recognize that everyone is not going to have access to proper training :) yet can still be good people...i.e. that Christ is present where good is present.

    The criticism of religion in this thread, however valid some of it is, ignores the complexity, beauty and depth of Christianity, and reads like what I "learned" as a freshman in college, where angry criticism of religion, esp. Catholicism, has been popular for some time now.

    Case in point, the stem cell and abortion debates. It's not two shiny happy persons who know nothing of medicine or women making a pronouncement and snickering at the resulting carnage.

    That is the prevailing view, it seems.

    It is rather a bunch of church scholars concerned about the sanctity of human life. Overall, and with a view that there is something larger than prolonging the inevitable (for all of us) at all costs.

    Yes, it is based on the Catechism, but there are complex reasons (well reasoned) for their views.

    -James

  • Canute

    Aug. 28, 2008 7:55 p.m. Canute New Reader

    Here's an excellent Discover magazine article about stem cell researcher Robert Lanza. He could be saving lives, but instead spends his time fighting against (and looking over his shoulder for) religious zealots. People who will target in vitro fertilization clinics for terrorist attacks. And those are the ones who are trying to help make new potential Christians. I can't even describe how disgusting and shameful I think this is.

  • Salanis

    Aug. 28, 2008 8:26 p.m. Salanis Dork

    jamscal wrote:

    I'm not up on the exact theology, but they recognize that everyone is not going to have access to proper training :) yet can still be good people...i.e. that Christ is present where good is present.

    See, I'm not arguing with that since it makes far more sense than the other philosophies. I actually quite agree with it.

    However, it defeats the standard dogma if you state that you don't need to actually be a person who is ever identified with Christianity, you just need to be a good person.

    I honestly wish more Christians took that stance regarding their faith, but the vast majority of Christian individuals and organizations do not seem to feel the same way.

    (Oh, and to berkeley with yer all heads... I'm actually ordained under a Catholic order.)

  • Jensenman

    Aug. 28, 2008 8:35 p.m. Jensenman UltimaDork

    belteshazzar wrote:

    SO much misunderstanding in one thread.

    Why do you say that? Just curious, not starting a flame war etc.

    For my part: it's rare I get to speak my mind because bluntly many religious people don't want to hear it, or if i am honest they make it their life's work to sway me to their way of thinking. I learned the hard way to keep my mouth shut at parties etc because if I say what I really believe someone will get offended and leave in a huff. That's not how you get along with your fellow man.

    So maybe, just maybe, someone will read this and say 'ya know, maybe I should be more tolerant of those different from I'. I'd say that's the beginning of understanding.

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