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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » A dual purpose rallyX/autoX racer? Off road buggies, why not?

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Jan. 21, 2012 4:45 p.m. Graefin10 HalfDork

First of all, I'm not trying to sell off road buggies. I just keep running into the myriad ads. on-line and started reading about them. Some of them seem to be built quite well.

Why couldn't one of these be used as a dual purpose rallyX one week end and autoX the next racer?

It would seem possible for the coilovers, wheels, and tires to be switched out and actually do that. The auto cross set would be whatever the rules dictate and a set of coilovers that lower and stiffen the suspension adequately.

The above picture is a small engine but they are available up to at least 1000cc.

This one is 800cc

and this one 1000

Bonehead idea? Can anyone else see it?
Jan. 21, 2012 5:28 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

Hmmm. That's an easy way to build an A Mod, if you think about it.

EDIT: Did a quick look, the 1000cc engine is 51.6 HP and the empty weight is 1323 pounds. That's 400 pounds over SCCA min weight with driver and about 100-140 HP down on the fast A Mods. But I bet it would be a blast on a Rally X course.

There's another one that claims 71 HP and 1100 pounds.
Jan. 21, 2012 5:29 p.m. Grizz Dork

If they make street tires that would fit I don't really see any reason you couldn't.
Jan. 21, 2012 5:32 p.m. eastsidemav HalfDork

Technically, they wouldn't fit any rallyx class, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd let you run. I think rail buggies have run in M2 in our region before.
Jan. 21, 2012 5:44 p.m. Knurled Dork

eastsidemav wrote:

Technically, they wouldn't fit any rallyx class, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd let you run. I think rail buggies have run in M2 in our region before.

And they're a lot slower than a car because they can't turn. Or rather, they can turn, they just don't do it when you want them to, but will do it when you don't want them to. Looks hilarious from the outside but must be incredibly frustrating.

I'm shocked nobody has said Miata yet. Jeez, people, you're slipping.
Jan. 21, 2012 6:13 p.m. Zomby woof SuperDork

Some (maybe all) of those 800 cc motors are copies of the old Suzuki F series 800. I've built a few heads for some of the buggy guys. A few have put a G10 (Metro) motor in theirs.
Jan. 21, 2012 7:28 p.m. Graefin10 Dork

Obviously, I don't know anything about them but thought if the SCCA did a spec. class for buggies and had some engineers do some up front work to accomplish it it could be a reasonable way to have a multi-purpose ride. The good part is if you have any legal trails near where you live you could enjoy it there too.

Here's one with Hoosiers on it.
Jan. 21, 2012 7:35 p.m. nicksta43 Reader

I like the way you think.
Jan. 21, 2012 10:51 p.m. Graefin10 Dork

I found a video that show Miko Hirvenan(sp.) and another driver in super fast buggies drifting through a series of turns on gravel or dirt at very high speed in tandem. So they CAN turn if set up right.

The video link didn't work.
Jan. 21, 2012 10:55 p.m. CarKid1989 Dork

im intrigued...now have it be street legal and ill put a down payment on one
Jan. 22, 2012 12:47 a.m. Keith SuperDork

EVO magazine invited a hot buggy to one of the Trackday Car of the Year a few years ago. They were thinking along these lines too. It was quite out of its depth. I'll see if I can find the article.
Jan. 22, 2012 4:47 a.m. Graefin10 Dork

CarKid1989 wrote:

im intrigued...now have it be street legal and ill put a down payment on one

I've been thinking a lot about just that since beginning to take a hard look at these things. We can ride motorcycles, drive trikes, drive a "Smart" car, for crying out loud, why not these things on the road. They'd have to be regulated by their cruise speed potential of course - low power not allowed on limited access highways, that sort of thing. Hmmm, wonder what it would take to get the NHTSA or whatever it's called to take a look at that. Golf carts and the like are allowed in some communities and personally, I think the more transportation that's using very small displacement engines with very high fuel economy ratings the better. I can see myself picking up the groceries in one of those. Why, BECAUSE RACE CAR!
Jan. 22, 2012 7:48 a.m. sachilles Dork

Friend did the exact thing you are talking about and bought a Sand Viper. They didn't allow him to rallyx as it wasn't a production car. He would have been fine with being in some sort of exhibition class too. He just wanted to run for the fun of it. Heck, he might even sell it at this point.
Jan. 22, 2012 8:45 a.m. Graefin10 Dork

sachilles wrote:

Friend did the exact thing you are talking about and bought a Sand Viper. They didn't allow him to rallyx as it wasn't a production car. He would have been fine with being in some sort of exhibition class too. He just wanted to run for the fun of it. Heck, he might even sell it at this point.

That sucks! That's why I started this thread. I'm looking for a viable way for busy people to have some motorsports fun without having to do a major build or spend their life's saving on it.

The videos I've been finding indicate that it definitely is a real possibility IF venues could be worked out. Like I said, before it's being done big time in other countries. Anyway, tell your friend to trail ride it and enjoy it that way but get on the band wagon - or lead the band to try to make something like this happen.
Jan. 22, 2012 11:13 a.m. sachilles Dork

In reply to Graefin10:

He's got about a billion other vehicles to play with. It doesn't discourage him from competing. Just prevents him from using that particular vehicle for anything. Not a lot of call for a 2wd buggy in vermont. He tends to have vehicles better suited to his other disciplines of racing that he's interested in. The sand viper was to be a rallyx toy, field racer.
Jan. 22, 2012 11:34 a.m. fritzsch Reader

There was a college SAE Baja team (you build off road buggies powered by 10hp B&S engine) that decided to show their schools SAE Formula team up by building a car that would be eligible for both the Baja and Formula competitons. They actually did better than the real Formula team at their school. I think they changed a few things with suspension and then swapped a 600cc engine in for the Formula event, but underneath it was the same car.
Jan. 22, 2012 12:55 p.m. Aeromoto Reader

I don't have my rule book handy, but I remember that SCCA RallyX requires a production car.

As far as a dual usage car, our 300zx gets rallyX'd and autoX'd, and it wins trophies and does pretty good at both. And at a total outlay of $900 so far (includes price of car, parts repalced, etc.), I'd say it's a damn sight cheaper than one of those buggies would be

At the last Orlando SCCA rallyX, GRM had their Hot Rod Lincoln LeMons car competing in prepared rear, so there is your dual usage right there.
Jan. 22, 2012 1:44 p.m. cghstang HalfDork

SCCA RallyX requires a production Vehicle

I haven't really seen anyone push that to it's limits but I would argue that a side-by-side with factory hardtop and arm restraints for the driver would be completely legal for the existing classes.

Regions can add their own classes as long as the mandatory safety rules are followed.

But as pointed out, you don't need a buggy to have fun with the same vehicle at rallycross and autocross events.
Jan. 22, 2012 3:02 p.m. sachilles Dork

In my friends case, they denied him the use of the buggy at the event, so he just hopped behind the wheel of another car. I'm sure if he had pushed the issue, he might have been able to run it, but he isn't the type of person to make a stink. It can be registered and street legal in our state. It was more of a case of it being the first time the organization had dealt with someone bringing a "buggy", and opted to exclude it, mostly because they couldn't classify it.....not because it was unsafe. I think they may even have an exhibition class now as a direct result of this. In the grand scheme of things it wasn't a huge deal. He had hoped it would be a multi discipline warrior. As it shared the same bolt pattern as his miata, he could run slicks on it he already had. He found it wasn't a particularly good autocrosser even with slicks. While fun to drive, it was not competitively classed. He also has a supercharged miata, which was more competitive and just as enjoyable to drive. So it fell out of favor for autocross. Next option would be to hillclimb it. While it looks like it would be accepted to compete, it just wouldn't be well suited to the task as it lacks power. So basically, he thought it would be a jack of all trades, but it truly is not the master of any of them. It would have been best suited for rallyx, but classification sort of kills it. Sadly, it ends up being just another vehicle in the driveway.
Jan. 22, 2012 6:09 p.m. Dusterbd13 Reader

the car i autox i WOULD NOT rallyx.

that being said, ive been thinking along similar lines for something for my daughter to run. i want her to be a competent autocrosser before shes allowed to get her license/drivers ed. scca in my area allows them to start running carts at 7 or 8.

one of these could be used on the orv trails at the uwharries, autox ride for her, and drive to work (8 blocks) ride for me. a jackof all trades i want. no need to master.

any of the offerings seem more suited to the all purposenees than any others?

michael
Jan. 22, 2012 6:37 p.m. Aeromoto Reader

The best part about autoX'ing your rallyX car is leaving a trail of dirt/sand/gravel for everyone that follows you at the autoX
Jan. 22, 2012 8:04 p.m. Dusterbd13 Reader

i think im gonna have to build one. they look like way too much fun.

anyone have any good plans for a two seater? ill pay fo rthem if i have too. needs to hold a good sized motor thats availible with reverse.

im thinking honda d-series.

hell, i may be thinking about a rear engined, lond travel locost.
Jan. 22, 2012 8:37 p.m. Keith SuperDork

There's a Joyner 450 cc or so that goes pretty cheap. That plus a bike engine could be quite entertaining.
Jan. 22, 2012 9:10 p.m. Slyp_Dawg HalfDork

I'd think the euro Rallycross buggies would be right up this alley, they race on dirt by design, but toss some slicks at one and maybe fit some stiffer shocks and toss it in A-mod and have fun
Jan. 22, 2012 9:14 p.m. CarKid1989 Dork

sachilles said:
Friend did the exact thing you are talking about and bought a Sand Viper.

sachilles wrote:

It can be registered and street legal in our state.

Say what huh? That Sand Viper is street legal? NO Stinking way. Too cool. I dunno how though

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