Rick New Reader
Feb. 11, 2010 10:37 p.m.

I just saw an ABC News video on a Toyota explaining what to do if the throttle sticks at wide open throttle. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-supplier-sticky-gas-pedals-problem/story?id=9689799

They claim the Toyota Venza's brakes can not stop the car if the accellerator is at wide open, and if you pump the brakes the brakes fail. I can't believe the brakes are physically incapable of stopping the car. This has to be wrong and a mistake by the ABC News (I hope). How can the power brakes lose their power by pumping the brake? If this is true, why would an auto maker design the brake system to perform like this?

I know news reporting is bad, but I didn't think it was this bad.

Does anyone have any thoughts about what is going on?
I must be missing something!

Rick

Rick New Reader
Feb. 11, 2010 10:38 p.m.

It looks like the video is from Consumer Reports, not ABC News.

John Brown SuperDork
Feb. 11, 2010 10:45 p.m.

What you all are missing is the NASCAR factor.

Toyota got big.

Toyota started supplying NASCAR stuff.

Michael Waltrip Racing runs Toyotas.

Michael Waltrips race cars always look like this when going on the trailer:

Toyota believes in sharing what they learn on the track should be applied to the assembly line resulting in:

carzan Reader
Feb. 11, 2010 10:48 p.m.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/10/toyota-recall-putting-stuck-floor-mat-survival-strategies-to-the-test.html

Rick New Reader
Feb. 11, 2010 11:41 p.m.

In reply to carzan: Great link. I like to know the test procedures. I'm curious why Consumer Reports didn't test at higher speeds after letting the brakes cool off longer. Actually, I'm ... I'll be nice and stop that thought right there. I'm not a fan of Consumer Reports. Car and Driver tested a few cars also with different results, suggesting that cars can stop. I guess looking at small samples from diffenent groups with different tests isn't really scientific.

Travis_K Dork
Feb. 11, 2010 11:59 p.m.

With the engine at WOT, pumping the brakes will cause the brake booster to loose its effect, thats the reason for not pumping the brakes. they wont fail, you just cant put as much pressure on them to stop the car.

ignorant SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 4:20 a.m.

the answer to a throttle sticking open question should be..

"put in the clutch"

if the person then asks, "whats a clutch," The response should be

AngryCorvair SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 8:30 a.m.
Travis_K wrote: With the engine at WOT, pumping the brakes will cause the brake booster to loose its effect, thats the reason for not pumping the brakes. they wont fail, you just cant put as much pressure on them to stop the car.

exactly. WOT = no vacuum being produced = booster runout = no power assist = manual brakes = much greater pedal force required to achieve decel.

mtn SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 8:45 a.m.
ignorant wrote: the answer to a throttle sticking open question should be.. "put in the clutch" if the person then asks, "whats a clutch," The response should be

Quite possibly the best post ever.

slantvaliant HalfDork
Feb. 12, 2010 9:09 a.m.

What's a booster?

Full-time manual override FTW.

integraguy HalfDork
Feb. 12, 2010 10:06 a.m.

ABC News....the same folks who brought us the "exploding Chevy Silverado". That test was found to be rigged, maybe the same producers did this one?

Strizzo SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 10:55 a.m.

having looked a a venza in the showroom not too long ago, i remember noticing that the venza has some seemingly small brakes for a vehicle that size.

also, what about the "electronic brake assist" deal thats supposed to sense a panic stop and use the abs or whatever to give full brakes until its clear you want to go again? can even the abs assisted brake system not stop the car?

then also, what would happen if you started swerving and making the car slide? wouldn't the stability control reduce throttle and apply brakes? if you could trick the thing into killing throttle, maybe you could get some vacuum back

Strizzo SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 11:00 a.m.
integraguy wrote: ABC News....the same folks who brought us the "exploding Chevy Silverado". That test was found to be rigged, maybe the same producers did this one?

that was NBC news

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/10/us/nbc-settles-truck-crash-lawsuit-saying-test-was-inappropriate.html?pagewanted=1

oldeskewltoy New Reader
Feb. 12, 2010 11:09 a.m.

For now......

I'm just sticking with "throttle by cable", you can keep "throttle by wire"

foxtrapper SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 2:05 p.m.
I can't believe the brakes are physically incapable of stopping the car.

Ever try to stop a Jeep Cherokee? Seriously, a whole lot of cars are barely capable, or downright incapable, of stopping the vehicle from highway speed, with the engine at WOT. The brakes are hit and the vehicle slows down, the brakes heat saturate before the vehicle stops, the vehicle accellerates up to high speed again, this time without any brakes. I mention the Jeep Cherokee because that's a vehicle that can barely stop itself twice from high speed while going uphill into the wind.

Of those that are capable of stopping themselves from high speed with the engine at WOT, many drivers negate it by attempting to "control" the vehicle instead of just bringing it to an immediate halt. Thereby heat saturating the brakes and having a brakeless runaway.

Want to maximize your inability to stop? Buy cheap brake pads, like those $7.00 Raybestos pads and such.

Bobzilla Dork
Feb. 12, 2010 2:33 p.m.

^ Or push in the clutch. Seriously, if people payed a little more attention to their driving and were driving a 3 pedal vehicle this would all be a moot point.

Streetwiseguy New Reader
Feb. 12, 2010 4:03 p.m.

Turn the key off.

ignorant SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 9:42 p.m.
oldeskewltoy wrote: For now...... I'm just sticking with "throttle by cable", you can keep "throttle by wire"

not to be pedantic, but I'll gather that more people over the years have been killed by a sticking or broken throttle cable than electronic throttle...

mad_machine SuperDork
Feb. 12, 2010 9:46 p.m.

maybe.. but usually sticking throttle cables first manifest themselves as a high idle

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