Advice on sale of camper

Hey guys,

I know this isn't a RV forum,but I thought I would ask your opinions. We have been trying to sell our 2001 travke trailer on craigslist for a month or so. Well after using it one last time a few weeks ago we sold it yesterday to a couple in New Hampshire(we are in MA). I even delivered it to them at over two hours away for $50. We disclosed every problem we knew of with the trailer,and the husband looked at the camper about a month or so ago at our house. When we came home form our last trip a few weeks ago the entry step where it bolted to the bottom of the camper pulled down a little,and I thought great why does this happen at the end of our trip a few weeks before we sell it. Well I didn't think it was a big deal,and neither did the buyer even though he hadn't seen it since his frst look at it weeks earlier. We were asking $6000 or best offer,and they offered $5200 which we accepted. I even gave the guy a break,and took $100 off the offered price because he needed a weight distibuting hitch,and brake controller for his truck. Yesterday was a hell day because we got stuck in an hours worth of traffic for a Kenny Chesney concert at Gillette staduim,and I am sure I burned more tha $50 worth of gas. He was all happy with the camper yesterday,and so was his whole family.

Now today he is calling me telling me the whole floor is rotted out,and he thinks that the elak on the roof was worse than I said it was,and that he thinks the whole camper is rotting away. I don't think so,and like I said I told him everything I knew was wrong with it. I told him that if he wants his money back,and he hasn't signed the title yet that we could do that. He said he is not sure yet,and that he is going to have someone look at it. I told him not to tear anything apart if he wants me to take it back. He said he would have offered less if he had know about this problem. I told him everything that was wrong with it to the best of my knowledge,and wrote AS-IS on the bill of sale that they signed. Part of me wants to help him out if it truely is rotted(again I was not aware of this),but the other part of me thinks tough luck. What would you guys do? I have no idea what the law would say on this one,and I amnot sure there is any lemon law on campers. Also with it selling in NH which law would we follow if it got to that point,MA,or NH?

Any help woould be greatly appreciated.

Chris

If what you say is true, it sounds like you acted in good faith. He had the right to inspect it beforehand, you revealed everything you knew, and you noted the sale was AS-IS.

Caveat emptor.

He should have inspected it more carefully.

At this point, he would have to prove you intentionally deceived him on the condition, hire a lawyer, deal with the inter-state issues, go to court, pay the court fees, and loose the case anyway.

He won't.

The law is squarely on your side, and the odds are as well. Start documenting EVERY message, phone call, etc. immediately, but I seriously doubt he'll act on it.

He knows he screwed up, and he's just looking for a concession on your part. I wouldn't give anything back- could be interpreted as an admission of guilt.

I had a similar experience a long time ago. Sold a camper which we had overlooked properly winterizing. The guy called me back a few days later to gripe about broken pipes. I felt guilty too. I told him to get back to me when he had an estimate. He never called back.

Hopefully your buyer will do the same.

Out of curiosity, what was the book value on the camper? Did you already make a concession that benefits him appropriately?

Good luck.

I would have told him to cram it with walnuts.

"Used vehicle, sold as-is."

Any concessions you offer to him are an admission of guilt that you knew it was effed up. I hope you dont have the refund promise in writing and that you DO have the bill of sale with "AS IS" in writing.

The choice of law may or may not be an issue. There's probably not much difference between the two jurisdictions. (That said, I'm not a lawyer in either one of them.) Ideally you would have put a MA choice of law clause on your bill of sale (unless, of course, NH law turns out to be more favorable). You also could have had him pick it up, and then it would be unquestionably a MA law problem.

My personal view of such things is the taillight warranty. Once I can't see the taillights, it's out of warranty. I expect the same when I buy a used vehicle. I think your offer to take it back is more than fair. It sounds like he just got a case of buyer's remorse. "AS IS" means "AS IS."

Disclaimer: none of this is legal advice, and I'm not licensed to practice law in any of the relevant jurisdictions. If you really want to know, consult a local attorney. Some crack pot at the other end of the Internet can't be your lawyer, so we don't have an attorney-client relationship. If you try to sue me saying that we do have such a relationship, I'll have Dr. Hess deliver a big box store poof to you at his earliest convenience.

I don't feel that my offer of concessions is so much an admission of guilt,but more just me being a honest person. I honestly knew nothing about all this rott he is talking about. I knew of the roof leak that I sealed up,and showed him as much.

The book value is in the $6000-$6500 range,and we sold it well below that in my opinion. We were offered $4500 from a loacl dealer on a trdae-in a couple of months ago,and he never mentioned any rott in that area(yes he inspected it). I want to be a decent person because that is how I was raised,but at the same time I don't feel I should give any money back,or take the camper back.

I respect your honesty, and I might do the same. But you asked about your obligations, and I was simply answering that.

If you know in your heart you did nothing wrong, be content. It should help to know that the likelihood is that the repairs are less than $500 and you discounted the value of the sale $800- $1300.

I don't think you owe him anything.

I know you don't feel a financial concession would be an admission of guilt. If it goes to court, nobody cares what you feel. Some courts could interpret it that way.

If you do offer to give him back his money, I would certainly insist he be responsible for returning it to you. That should deter him from bringing it back.

Don't forget- if you take it back, you will own it and you will be knowledgeable of the condition of the floor. You will be obligated to reveal this info when you sell it. So the cost of the repairs will be on you, either directly or indirectly through the lower sales price.

If you had a dealer make an offer and inspect it and they didn't find any rot, you're in the clear. It looks like this guy is trying to screw you over because he is no longer pleased with his purchase. If you want to be an extra nice guy, follow through with the refund but make sure the buyer pays all the associated costs with getting it back to you. After all, it is his camper and his responsibility now.

Buyer called back last night. Said they want to keep the camper,but now they found a leak during the rain storm. He is wondering if I would give him a $5-600 refund on the purchase price. I don't know what to do. Giving him money back almost makes it seem like I knew about these things,and deceived them. Taking the camper back doesn't sound like a good idea either. I told him I would think about it,and get back to him. What do you guys think?

Chris

Mazdax605 wrote: Buyer called back last night. Said they want to keep the camper,but now they found a leak during the rain storm. He is wondering if I would give him a $5-600 refund on the purchase price. I don't know what to do. Giving him money back almost makes it seem like I knew about these things,and deceived them. Taking the camper back doesn't sound like a good idea either. I told him I would think about it,and get back to him. What do you guys think? Chris

You owe him nothing. As-is means as is. If you give him money now, he'll call back if a few weeks wanting more back for some other reason. He bought an 8 year old used camper. If he wanted no problems and a warranty he could have bought new. Tell him to suck it.

At this point you either give him nothing and stick to your guns or he brings it back to you and you give him back his $ (-) any expenses you might have and possibly even (-) what a couple nights of camper rental might have been. Anything else is him pushing you around and you taking it.

I think we all understand and appreciate your desire to be an honest seller. I certainly wish there were more honest guys like you out there.

I agree with all sentiments above. You have no obligation to this buyer, ethically or (probably) legally. You've acted in good faith, discounted the price, disclosed known issues, and gave the seller ample inspection time. You've done your part to be honest, and you seem to be taking it on faith that he's being honest, too. How do you know that this extensive damage he's claiming really exists?

You've been extremely honest and forthcoming, above and beyond most other vehicle sellers. I think you should tell this guy you're sorry, but the sale is final.

And if "sorry, but the sale is final" doesn't work, the phrase "go pound sand" springs to mind. You've done everything above board. It's his problem, not yours.

You don't owe him jack. Stop taking his calls. Go deposit the money. The words "AS IS" are all that need to be said here.

You'll earn no kudos with this guys being a pushover.

You have, however, gained a level of respect, honor, and decency on this board. Take that as your compensation.

Tell him that you deeply regret that he has found unexpected issues since he became the owner, but the sale was final and as-is, and you won't be able to refund any money. You did everything you could up front. The discount for any potential problems was in the asking price of $6000 (which you said was under the market value), plus the lower still sales price of $5100.

Expect him to be unhappy. Know that you are right before you make the call.

Then walk away.

Pat on the back for your over-the-top efforts.

billy3esq wrote: Disclaimer: none of this is legal advice, and I'm not licensed to practice law in any of the relevant jurisdictions. If you really want to know, consult a local attorney. Some crack pot at the other end of the Internet can't be your lawyer, so we don't have an attorney-client relationship. If you try to sue me saying that we do have such a relationship, I'll have Dr. Hess deliver a big box store poof to you at his earliest convenience.

I think you're raising the standard on legal disclaimers, billy.

Yea, refunding money is a bad idea.

Thanks for the replies guys,I appreciate it. I am still at a loss as to waht would be the right thing to do. I feel I have been more than fair,and straightforward with them,but at the same time I understand why they may be angry about finding these "issues".

This whole thing reminds me of the sale of our pop-up camper we bought new in 96. We paid the camper off early back then,and never received a title on it from the bank for quite some time. We called the bank,and inquired about not receiving the title,and the bank informed us that trailer sof that size/weight didn't require a title,and therefore we don't get one. We sold the camper to a guy that was thrilled to get such a good deal on this 4 year old camper,as we sold it cheap. About a month later I get a message on my answering machine asking about the title for our camper we sold. The message was from a woman I didn't know,and it turns out the guy who bought it was a shady dealer that bought,and sold campers all the time,and he told this prospective buyer that we had consigned the camper to him,and that any question she had would have to be answered by us. It was news to me,and it turns out the prospective buyer worked for the same company I did in another area(we were union brothers),so I told her the story,and what we sold the camper for. She told me what this guy was asking for the camper which was pretty close to what we bought if for new 4 years prior. I told her that we never had a title,and that one wasn't required,and that we never consigned it to him. She was happy I was honest with her,and she ran away from the deal. I never heard back form the guy after a few calls bitching about the lack of a title,and I have no idea whatever happened to the camper. I guess I shouldn't sell campers.

I have not heard from the guy today,and I don't plan on calling him today. I really wish I didn't care about people the way I do,but I guess I was raised right.

Thanks again.

Chris

Mazdax605 wrote: I guess I shouldn't sell campers.

That's one approach.

Mazdax605 wrote: I really wish I didn't care about people the way I do,but I guess I was raised right.

Go to law school. That will beat most of that kind of upbringing out of you.

I think you went above and beyond by dropping your price quite a bit, delivering the thing and coughing up another $100 for a weigh ticket. Be polite, be firm. If the guy gets huffy, don't buckle, tell him you have to talk to your lawyer. My lawyer says "As-Is" means as is, go away. You can throw money into a suit, but you'll lose.

Good luck and don't feel guilty.

Dan

Guy called me on Tuesday during my 2 year olds birthday party,and asks what the deal is. I said I was a bit more involved with the birthday party,and the possible strike at my company in 4 days than I was with the refund,of all or some of the money from this deal. He seems really hot to have me take it back,as he offered me money for my time,and gas if I came up to get it. That ain't happening!! I still don't know if I am going to refund him anything,but we are not taking it back,and I am sorry I even mentioned it to him. I told him I would call him tomorrow with what ever decision we made. I MAY offer him $2-300 back,but that is it.

I wouldnt offer a dime.

As-Is. Have him talk to his lawyer before anything happens.
It's HIS camper now, his lawyer could explain that to him.

I think its funny how much you people complain about the bloodsucking lawyers (and litigous nature of your country), yet when something happens, the first thing out of your mouth is lawyer. The last thing you need to do is get a lawyer(s) involved. It will just end up costing you both money that neither of you have to spend. Feel him out, work out a deal that makes him go away, and call it a day. Do you owe him anything? No, but a few hundred bucks won't mean dick to you, and might mean enough to him to keep him off your back. Your mistake was entertaining any kind of conversation with him. He now has an expectatiion.

Used campers leak. LBCs have crappy electronics. And old Harleys leak oil.

It's part of the ownership experience. If he didn't know this, he didn't do his research.