Another dog question...multi-dog owners check in please (as in 3 or more)

I posted a few weeks ago a guessing game about the puppy we had just adopted.  For those who missed it, he's a baby...now about 10-11 weeks old.  Think he's some kind of cur or mountain dog.  Anyhow, he's adorable as all hell and everyone loves him.  But here's my question...

We also have an older dog.  He's a roughly 7 year old (not 100% sure, he was an SPCA rescue 5+ years ago) black lab/great dane.  He is indifferent toward the puppy.  No anger or aggression, he's an amazingly docile dog, but zero interest.  The puppy, of course, just wants to play.  The kids, wife and I play with him and have fun.  But we can't play with him all the time, and he's looking for a dog playmate...he's constantly approaching our older dog. 

So...even though I was  opposed to getting a second dog, I'm now thinking of getting a third.  Doesn't have to be a 10 week old, but a puppy of some kind.  That will give him a playmate, and I have no doubt at all that the kids would be over the moon having two puppies to play with.  By the way, to be 100% clear, we have made a point to really pay a lot of attention to and give our older dog lots of love...we are NOT ignoring him at all.  Everyone makes sure he knows he's loved as much as ever, and we will never change that.  He was our first, and he will be forever special to all of us.

What is owning 3 dogs really like?  We're picturing 3 medium/large dogs (we don't like "lap" dogs) around the house and wonder how crazy that is.  We already have 3 very active kids, full time jobs, etc... On the other hand, we raised human twins, so how hard can two young dogs really be?  My wife is a bit concerned that if we got a dog that was 6 months old that it would be too "old" for our 10 week old puppy to play with.  However, puppies that are only 8-10 weeks old are really hard to find at rescue shelters (that's where we want to adopt, no pet stores, no dog "farms").  I don't think that's an issue, 6 months is still a puppy, right?

Have I lost my mind??  The things we do for our families....

Meh it's not bad. We have 4 at the house and aside from the occasional misunderstanding, it's not bad. Bonus- E36 M3 days at work disappear when you are covered in 220lbs of happy dogs. 

I'd let the situation play out a bit longer before jumping into a big commitment like another puppy. The dynamics of your "pack" can take a bit of time to work themselves out. 

I only have one dog of my own, but he spends a considerable bit of time over at my parents house since my mom dog sits for me while I'm at work. My dog, Bear, is an Aussie Shepherd/Lab mix going on 4 this December, and while he's calmed down quite a bit over the last year or two, he was an absolute nutcase until at least age 2. When I first got Bear, my parents had an older lab who would have been about 9 at the time. For the first few months, the older lab wanted absolutely nothing to do with this crazy, bouncing off the walls puppy who came to invade his house every day -no aggression of any sort, just wasn't into it, much like yours. Eventually, though, the older dog kind of warmed up to the pup, and Bear kind of learned to play more on his level and they came to enjoy the company quite a bit. 

The older lab then passed about a year ago and my mom decided she wanted two lab puppies this time around to replace him. It was kind of amusing to then see the dynamic flipped, as Bear wasn't quite sure what to make of two wild and crazy puppies harassing him at first. Things seemed to sort themselves out  bit more quickly this time around, with all the dogs being on a more similar level of energy, but when the three of them get wound up and start rough housing....watch out, because it looks like a scene out of Looney Toons.

FWIW, I think having two puppies in the house at once is exponentially harder. 

As a former owner of 5 dogs ranging from chihuahua up to a massive Irish Wolfhound, (and my ex was a dog trainer and vet tech) there are some things to consider.

For every dog you add, you increase the chances that you will no longer be the alpha in the pack.  In general, with two dogs you'll always be the alpha.  With 3 dogs, there is a good chance that you will have a "pack" and one of them will emerge as dominant.  For you, this can represent significant misbehavior and training issues, but more importantly it can cause some pretty big stress for the old dog.  The old dog doesn't understand that you're "replacing" him, but in some ways his indifference may be caused because he's old, he doesn't want a high-energy playmate, and he's just pissed that his world is changing.

The only way our 5 dogs were manageable was because my ex had them all trained (even the Frenchie- a breed known for its airheaded-ness) like catholic nuns.  They all were trained with both verbal and hand commands.  She trained them for acting, so you could use hand commands to make them do darn near anything.  She also trained them to learn human names.  The best party trick was to introduce the chihuahua to everyone by name, then put her on the floor and say "Molly, where's Tracy?" and she would go sit in front of Tracy.  And you could just go around the room that way.  I won't even list the tricks they all could do; individual hand commands for head positions, smiling, walking on front feet, back feet.... it was impressive.

My suggestion is to give it time.  The old pup is likely just stressed about the new pup and they will likely grow together.  Sometimes it just takes time.  Maybe they never will and that's ok, but getting a third will just make things more stressful for the old pup.

If you do get a third, make sure you spend one-on-one time with all of them.  Separate one out from the others to go for a walk, play, or training time.  This is reminder time that you're alpha and they are less likely to ignore you when they're all together.  Making memories of one-on-one is key to keeping their focus on you.  Also, be sure to feed twice a day.  Don't leave food out for them.  One will hog it all and reinforce the pack hierarchy.  Feed them all separately from their own bowls in three separate corners of a room and monitor them to make sure they don't wander over and try to take some of other dogs' food.  Big no-no.  You control the food.

Don't get a puppy for the puppy. The puppy will settle down with time. When the older dog gets tired of it, he'll put the puppy in it's place. We usually get a puppy with an older dog still around to "teach it the ropes" so to speak. Larger dogs are typically more tolerant than medium or smaller dogs. 

We spent some time with 3 dogs and 2 humans. It felt like a literal zoo. Pack mentality does set in and it gets difficult for other dogs (and people at times) to come into that environment and be accepted. After Maya passed, we knew that 2 was our max. 

Thanks gang.  Yeah, we know the puppy will settle down as time goes on.  Our older dog has adjusted for sure, he's much more tolerant than he was at first.  When we first brought the puppy home, he refused to come near it.  Now he'll let the puppy lay right against him or walk around with him...until the puppy wants to play, then he walks away.  The thought behind another puppy is a lot of things...many of which I mentioned above, and a few others I won't get too deep into.  Your input are all good thoughts for sure. 

Yes, the pack mentality is something to be wary of for sure.  The older dog already knows who's alpha (i.e. me and my wife...well, OK, my wife is alpha in all situations) and the puppy is learning.  We have separate bowls, are very careful to make sure they don't steal from each other, etc...  we'd have to pay extra attention with three.

It's really the "crazy" aspect of it all that's causing us the most hesitation.  So far, having the one puppy has been more work for sure, but not as bad as we feared...to their credit, our kids are doing a nice job in helping.  If we had two puppies, we'd force them into the same routines, just like we did when we had twin babies.  Feed at the same time, walk at the same time, etc....it made life so much easier.

We have two dogs, but spend enough time with my brothers and parents that we frequently have 4 dogs hanging out. 

It is both easy and difficult. In some ways, it is really no different than having 2 dogs. 90% of the time, it is the same workload. That other 10% of the time, it can be a lot more difficult--like feeding. We had to lock one dog in a bedroom and feed him, feed two in the kitchen, then let the first three out and feed the 3rd an hour later. Oh, and if you don't have a fenced in yard, I wouldn't even bother thinking about it--but I think that is true at 2 dogs. 

Other areas that get difficult: Walking. I can walk 2 dogs by myself. I can't walk 3 dogs by myself. Depending on where your Dane/Lab mix falls on the Dane/Lab scale, you may already be at that point where you're 1 dog at a time though--but the Great Danes that I used to watch, while very docile, were not leash trained very well, so maybe that is a completely false assumption I have about them. 

Actually the indifference of the lab is an asset for you. The puppy will learn that behavior and will adapt. Kelly had a spaniel mix female a beagle female and a pit mix male when I met her. The older spaniel was the Alpha until I showed up with the pit mix and beagle playing the dumb dog role behind her. I upset the symmetry of their pack and the male decided he was going to jump to second in line behind me. The spaniel was not happy about that. She would whoop his 105lb ass around the house at all hours. Finally I got control of them all and for two years it was great. The spaniel passed this year and Theo has resumed his position following the lead dog. The beagle is still a maroon. I've never met a dog as dense as that beagle. At least shes pretty.

In reply to JmfnB :

Agreed. the puppy can learn that behavior. The most dense dog I've ever experienced was a pug. Dumbest. Animal. Ever. I don't mean dense, I mean stupid. That dog had the attention span of a dead gnat, humped everything in sight at all times and literally couldn't be trained. He was a friggin idiot. 

bobzilla said:

In reply to JmfnB :

That dog had the attention span of a dead gnat, humped everything in sight at all times and literally couldn't be trained. He was a friggin idiot. 

Wait a minute Bob...think about that.  You get to live your life not having to pay attention to anything, get to hump all day long and don't have to obey anything or anyone?  Maybe the dog wasn't so stupid after all....LOL

I currently have 6 dogs, ranging in age from 1 year to 15 years and from 7 lbs to 70.  We have had as many as 7 at one time.   Multi dog life is...well...variable.    As Im sure you know, every animal is going to act differently in a given scenario so what works for me might not work for you.

That being said, we find, for our situation, multiple dogs actually make things much better overall.  Everyone has someone near their age or size range to be their buddy when they want one.  But there's enough buffer that when they dont want to be bothered the other dogs pick up the slack.

We primarily rescue the "throw away" breeders from puppy mills so these are dogs which have spent most of their life locked in a cage and dont know how to "dog"   New additions learn about being a dog from those who are already here.  And housebreaking is actually done from dog to dog.  Ive often been asked for advice on how to housbreak a dog and I couldnt tell you.  The new ones just pick up the routine from the old ones.

Of course its not all sunshine and unicorn farts.  There can be food aggression, toy aggression, just plain dog stupidity.  Things do happen.  Good training and preparation are all you can really rely on in the end :)

Klayfish said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to JmfnB :

That dog had the attention span of a dead gnat, humped everything in sight at all times and literally couldn't be trained. He was a friggin idiot. 

Wait a minute Bob...think about that.  You get to live your life not having to pay attention to anything, get to hump all day long and don't have to obey anything or anyone?  Maybe the dog wasn't so stupid after all....LOL

Hmm.... point taken. 

As a 3 dog owner, 2 Chihuahuas, and a Schnauzer, (3, 7, 13 years of age) some observations.   All are adopted over the past few years.   Dogs will sort out who is who,  themselves.  You have to establish yourself as alpha.   They are funny, friendly, and a constant source of amusement. 

 Now, 3x the dog food, 3x the Vet bills, 3x the poop,etc.   Want to take a vacation?  Not, unless you board them, or have a reliable sitter.   I have a saying, which largely goes unnoticed,  "F'n D's, no more dogs".   That was 5 dogs ago.

I've had 3 dogs at once for a long time.  Not the same 3, as, well, that death thing, but 3.  Sometimes 2 females and 1 male, sometimes 2 males and a female.  They figger out who's who.  Although one time, the puppy was turning 2 and about 100 lbs was feeling his oats.  He was starting to fight with his father, who was getting really old.  I had to separate them as the puppy was getting bloody all the time. 

I worked 13 years at a 157 dog kennel and did obedience training with Rotties, I'm 48 and have had 2 to 7 dogs in the house my whole life.  I'm with the others that have said wait.  2 puppies seem to default to the worst behaviors but one puppy with one older dog ends up with the puppy mimicking the older ones good behavior.  I highly recommend crate training as well.  This is great for house breaking and is reassuring to the puppy to have their own space and quiet time and the older dog get a break from the "bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, fun, fun, FUN, FUn FUN!"

We have three dogs. Have been living that way for quite awhile (multiple dogs in the trio over time). We don't do puppies for the insanity reason you describe. Our age requirement is 2 years minimum. At that point most of the puppy moronity is gone. But you didn't ask me in time, so...

Our latest is a 4 year old we got because we felt our 7 year old Border Collie/cattle dog mix needed a buddy to play with. And like you we have a situation where the elder dog merely tolerates the existence of the Young Jedi as evidenced by this photo:

The other dog in the third is a 13 year old alpha bitch that is even less interested. But...they are all pals. Sleep next to each other, walk beside each other, etc.  They just aren't playmates. We take them to doggie playcare a few times a week and that keeps things sane in the house. Maybe even just take your pup to give the adult a break. It is money well spent for quiet evenings at home.

Three dogs isn't bad but poop and food all increase noticeably and walking three is way more challenging than two. Two is a good number. We like three because we've become accustomed to it and one always seems to be elderly and is very little maintenance but two is a good number. Pack leadership is essential with any number of dogs but it becomes increasingly important with more pack members. We've become experienced at both selecting new members and maintaining dictatorship that most additions are pretty seamless but there will always be some growling and snapping until new arrivals figure out where they belong.

In reply to ddavidv :

But you add one at a time, right?   

Good points from all ....Twelve year old border/St. Bernard mix male.....eight year old smooth coated collie hound mix female and the REAL alpha among them is the four year old aussie hodge podge female. I was never a really big fan of 'crate' time, but it does have it's merits and will find the girls in theirs even when they're not being sent to 'time ' out. Also having a large yard (two acres) helps with the walking situation....usually on their own and the room for 'chuck' ball.

Good times always......

So to wrap this up, shortly after I had posted this, I decided to just throw caution to the wind and go for it.  My wife and I had been debating it for a while anyway, and the more I watched the two dogs and listened to what my kids wanted, I just decided it would be fine.  So that afternoon my wife and kids went off to the local shelter.  They came home with another cur/sheppard/something-like-that mix.  This one a girl, only a week or two older than the boy....so we now have two roughly 11 week old puppies.  Not gonna lie, she is absolutely adorable.  I don't know I've ever met a more loving and sweet puppy.  She just LOVES people and attention.  The two puppies are getting along fabulously and so far they're happy with each other and are leaving the older one alone...except for that they do want lick him, which he puts up with. 

I know, it's not all flowers and unicorn farts.  It's work, it already has been, and will continue to be.  But so far, I couldn't be happier for my family...and yes I'm enjoying them too.  The new one is on the right...sorry for the blurry picture, but you get the idea.

They look like they could be litter mates! Glad it worked out 

Awwwww....wonderful, enjoy

And by the way, I very much appreciate the insight and the advice from everyone.  We've never had 3 dogs, so it's good to know what to look out for, etc...

That picture makes me happy.

We have four.  The only downside for us is there's not much room left in our bed for humans.  

congrats on your new fur babies, they look adorable!

Licking the face of the older dog is showing submission, which is good.

ddavidv said:

Licking the face of the older dog is showing submission, which is good.

So it's kinda like kneeling and kissing the ring, huh? 

All is going well.  They're an energetic handful, but very happy.  The female puppy has the "I'm so excited I'm going to pee" thing.  She's such a happy, loving, attention seeking dog.  Everytime I come in the door...even if she had just been out to pee 30 seconds ago, she's so excited that she pees a little when I (or anyone) pets her.  I've never owned a female dog before, but I know others who have, and I know this can be a common thing.