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Anyone here a farmer? It seems like a perfect match to GRM. You get to work with your hands, tinker with machinery, be your own boss, have a lot of storage space for projects (a barn is almost a garage right?).
I am curious if anyone raises livestock for a primary source of income or as a hobby/tax write-off. I've been thinking about cows and chickens and growing hay. My guess is that farming and GRM do not intersect all that much in reality.
I actually long to be a farmer, if that counts. I now am buying local food from farmers, too. Does that count?
I am an engineer - same thing except I have a "boss".
I grew up in agriculture country and worked a couple summers as a farm laborer for my neighbor, but I never made a living as a farmer myself. Livestock takes a LOT of work and cows are berkeleying STUPID.
A few chickens aren't too much work, but you need a little henhouse and some fence. My father-in-law and his wife keep half a dozen. The eggs are good.
It seems to me that beef cattle are less work than dairy. Cows need a lot of land. I am not sure if it can be profitable to raise them in a small herd. I'm thinking of something along the lines of 20 head or so. Thinking grassfed as opposed to cornfed.
We get almost all of our veggies from a local farmer as part of a CSA. Thinking about a similar setup for beef/chicken/eggs. I'm guessing the idea of being a farmer is a lot better than being a farmer most days, but I am still dreaming about it.
The farm I worked on raised black angus beef cattle. Easier than dairy cows because they didn't need to be milked and had a limited lifespan, but still not too easy. That was 500 head or so, mostly grassfed with some corn thrown in over the winter.
But seriously, if it sounds fun, try it, but find a mentor to work for a bit first. Good luck!
I farmed for 8 years in highschool, college, and after college. I love it, but the startup costs are too high if you dont come from a farm background. Example: My employer was given a 300+ acres of land in southeastern Wisconsin and a new tractor when he graduated college from his old man.
I learned a lot, made a ton of money ($15/hr in highschool in 1999), and had a great time. I still go back on weekends to help out, drive tractors, and drink beer.
It doesnt mix well with the GRM lifestyle for the simple reason that successful farming is a sinkhole of time. I rarely had time to work on my projects in the busy season, and working 70 hours a week doesnt leave a lot of free time. On the upside, do it right and you are a retired multimillionaire when you are 50.
I actually long to be a farmer, if that counts. I now am buying local food from farmers, too. Does that count?
You and me both. It'd be awesome if I knew a damned thing about it. We at least tried our first very small garden this year, with little effort and great results! We had a freaking ginormous Zucchini plant, red peppers, jalepeno peppers, basil, cilantro, parsley, and rosemary. Looking forward to "expanding," but I'm thinking I need to do/have some serious grading/filling done in the yard to get a good flat spot. Right now we've got everything growing right next to our front door! 
My first job (when I was 12-17) was on a ranch and I loved it quite honestly it was my favorite job of all the jobs I have had. I have thought off and on about trying to get into it again actually. Quite a bit of my family on both sides are farmers and ranchers. I have one uncles that owns a rather large chunk of Washington state for his ranch.
Who knows maybe it will happen as I'm getting more and more fed up with "city life".
poopshovel wrote:I actually long to be a farmer, if that counts. I now am buying local food from farmers, too. Does that count?You and me both. It'd be awesome if I knew a damned thing about it. We at least tried our first very small garden this year, with little effort and great results! We had a freaking ginormous Zucchini plant, red peppers, jalepeno peppers, basil, cilantro, parsley, and rosemary. Looking forward to "expanding," but I'm thinking I need to do/have some serious grading/filling done in the yard to get a good flat spot. Right now we've got everything growing right next to our front door!
This was my summer. First garden and growing more next year.
Walking outside for fresh produce = :) :)
poopshovel wrote:I actually long to be a farmer, if that counts. I now am buying local food from farmers, too. Does that count?You and me both. It'd be awesome if I knew a damned thing about it. We at least tried our first very small garden this year, with little effort and great results! We had a freaking ginormous Zucchini plant, red peppers, jalepeno peppers, basil, cilantro, parsley, and rosemary. Looking forward to "expanding," but I'm thinking I need to do/have some serious grading/filling done in the yard to get a good flat spot. Right now we've got everything growing right next to our front door!
We did the garden thing this year as well. Landscape timbers a few layers high and really good dirt can make any old piece of your yard into a garden. We had tomatoes, banana peppers, zucchini, squash, snow peas, basil, radishes and cucumbers - great time and great eating.
Landscape timbers a few layers high and really good dirt can make any old piece of your yard into a garden.
That's the plan. Our yard is redonkulously steep, so it'll require several timbers...and a lot of dirt...and like...math & stuff.
You don't want to be know dairy farmer. Leave that to someone else. Beef cattle are less trouble, but still take some effort. There are still cattlle rustlers BTW.
Pigs are a pain. Chickens less so. I wouldn't mind raising some free range chickens and sticking it to some fancy tree hugger yuppies.
The closest I ever got to farming was working in research and development with pesticides. I had a tractor and got to plant stuff, spray stuff (experimental chemicals we knew nothing about) and count dead bugs, etc. I also worked many hours a week and traveled all the time. Made some good coin though. Got laid off as cold as anyone you've ever seen. I was working in Alabama. If they had let me move to the Huntsville area, I would have stayed. Loved working up there.
Trying to start up a real farm now is probably impossible now. Hobby farms and small farms are doable. You can't pay for land with what it cost now with what you can grow on it... except illegal stuff.
TJ wrote:My guess is that farming and GRM do not intersect all that much in reality.
Only because farming eats up lots of time and money.
The smaller the livestock, the more predator problems you will have. Chickens, especially free range, are a buffet to all the predators in the area. I've lost upwards of 50 at a swipe when the coyotes get together and come through.
Bigger livestock has more predation of the two footed type. As in human thieves. Make no mistake, it's a common problem. Many livestock auctions require no papers, so steal on Wednesday, sell on Thursday. The better your cow/hog/goat, the more likely it will be stolen.
Farm life is romantic, as long as you only have to visit it. Far less romantic when you actually live it a bit.
yeah, farming is a poor mans game. There is very little money to be made farming, and it costs alot to keep a big farm running. Hire a good accountant.
and don't forget to work in a heavily subsidized industry.
Ownz ur farmz...
Don't forget though a freshly mown hay field = instant rally-x venue.
I have two cousins who are farmers. They gave up livestock years ago for corn/beans/wheat (now mostly corn and soybeans). Each one farms about 1500 acres, and they have, literally, over $1,000,000 invested in equipment. They maintain it all themselves, and they also do all of their own bookkeeping, which is a huge part of being a profitable farmer. A few years ago, one of these guys received over $100,000 in subsidies from the government, mostly for planting grass in watershed areas of his fields, which reduced his tillable acreage, but also prevented fertile soil from washing down to the creek.
Doing a little quick math, if the corn yields 150 bushel/acre, and sells for $7 per bushel, you can earn about $1,000 per acre. Multiply that by 1500 acres, and my cousin generated over $1,000,000 in revenue in one year. Don't forget to subtract all the expenses, though. My cousins earn a good living by farming, but they probably average 60 hours per week, for 48 or so weeks out of the year.
Once these guys retire (they're about 60 years old right now), there's no guess who will farm their land. No one else in our family is interested in farming.
That math and logic has a few major holes in it.
You've mixed the commodity price for the mill price. Farmers don't see the commodity price for their goods. Truckloads of corn at the mill max out at about 350 cents per bushel. The middle man makes the money, not the farmer.
That 350 cent price is prime. It always gets knocked down for mosture, contaminents, quality, etc. No one, I mean no one, ever gets what it's going for.
Supply and demand work against a farmer. When a farmer has a great crop, everyone has a great crop. So prices drop. That's why you will see farmers tilling a good crop back into the ground. The price is so low it costs more to take it to the mill than to just leave it to rot in the field. Prices are only high when everyone had a lousy year and produced nothing.
No farmer puts in 60 hour work weeks. You can't go that lazy.
That $100,000 isn't a subsidy, it was a grant or a cost share, and contained easement rights. Not that one can't make money with them, but you give up some of your farming for it. Some of my cousins are making good money selling their lower fields for wetland recovery projects. Builders destroy a wetland for development, but buy some land to be converted to wetlands at his farm. He's made good money at this.
I know one rich farmer. He is rich, no mistaking it. He also worked like a dog most of his life. I worked for him. 16-20 hour days 365 days a year. Took him decades, but he put together a special consortium of like minded farmers and ranchers. Convinced a whole bunch of wealthy people to preserve the large portion of Colorado and Wyoming that they owned. Sold it all essentially, making it an interesting rural preserve. He got rich not by farming, but by selling the romantic dream to others.
Fox, you hit several nails squarely on the head.
I worked witha lot of farmers and the ones that were "rich" later were bankrupt. I''m not sure any of them are in farming any more.
I had some friends that farmed a large acreage in Lee County SC. Biggest private landowners in the county. They farmed cotton, which is a pretty good money maker in selected years (see foxtrappers post above about supply and demand). They got out of farming when the Govt started all their programs and went into restoring automobiles. They did most stuff by hand and did outstanding work. One brother and the old man are dead, so the business is no longer operating. The family trust still owns the land and rents it out to other farmers.
If you can farm and make enough food for yourself, and maybe some diesel, why do you need to make money?
From what I understand, reading things via the slow food movements, the big money now is more in the non-grain business. Unique fruit, vegatables, etc- done right, you can make decent money with stuff that's supposed to grow well in your area.
Nothing that a person can't support on a few acres. See some of the blot pictures at the current end of the Detroit survival thread.
E-
Niche marketing a unique product has always been a maximum profit maker. Not just in farming. Get it right, and you'll make a fortune. Getting it right is always the interesting challenge.
One of my very successful farmer cousins opened my eyes and set me straight on my little farm some years ago. I was bemoaning how I'd once again barely made a profit. She told me I was missing out on what I had. I didn't have to make money on my farm. My regular job paid me enough that I didn't need to have a profitable farm. I could have a gentlemans farm, and simply enjoy it. If I wanted to have some chickens for eggs, I could do it. And if I had a few extra to sell I could put a sign out front to sell a couple dozen. I don't have to worry about profitable crops and plow up my land. I can garden as big as I want, or as small. I can raise the produce I want. Try a plot of peanuts for the fun of it. Plant paw-paw trees because I like the fruit. There's no market for paw-paws. She told me quite frankly that she was rather envious of me and my situation. She absolutely had to make a profit on her farm, and I didn't. I could farm for pleasure. Something she couldn't do.
She was right, oh so right. Once I quit worrying about profit the farm became fun. I play and enjoy myself with it. I have honey and eggs and some meat for myself, and sometimes a little extra. That's fun.
To those of you wanting to farm, I strongly suggest heeding my cousin Kates words. Go for it, and enjoy yourself. Don't do it for a profit, do it for the fun of it.
TJ wrote: Anyone here a farmer? It seems like a perfect match to GRM. You get to work with your hands, tinker with machinery, be your own boss, have a lot of storage space for projects (a barn is almost a garage right?).I am curious if anyone raises livestock for a primary source of income or as a hobby/tax write-off. I've been thinking about cows and chickens and growing hay. My guess is that farming and GRM do not intersect all that much in reality.
My parents own a few hundred acres (family farm for several generations) and do some light hobby farming of livestock. It is really the situation above, it is done for pleasure, not profit. In fact, I'm sure it has always been a net loss, as any hobby usually is. They have chickens (and have for my entire life) and a small flock of sheep (never more than 30 head, I think). I'm not sure what it would take to really make a living but I'm sure it would take a large investment of both time and money.
I worked in the agricultural sector during college. Specifically in seed corn production. I spent a lot of time in the corn fields monitoring the product (corn) and doing various tasks. I got to drive some pretty cool machinery around too. We worked 70 hours a week during our busiest time and it was a fantastic job. I really loved it. There really is something to be said for working outdoors. Some people hated it and burned out in short order. I'm not sure what was wrong with those people. I did the job for four summers and sometimes wish I still could.
Good discussion and insight - thanks. I don't have the money, experience, or desire to get into large industrial type farming. I was thinking more along the lines of a gentleman's farm or a hobby farm. Something sustainable, organic, and not controlled by ADM, Monsanto, Tyson, etc.
I like the idea of working outside and not at a desk. I get along well with people but would enjoy being around animals more than people (even if the are as stupid as cows). I have some income from driving submarines for 20 years and could put my wife to work as a teacher. I don't have farming experience other than some gardening nor do I have any land.
Something like Polyface Farmsis what I have in my mind. I know that shoveling manure when it is 40F and raining with cow E36 M3 all over my boots is more the reality than the romantic image I dream about. I'm not set on this - just exploring the idea.
