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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Any PEX/CPVC/PVC pipe nollij?

Dec. 29, 2011 9:31 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

Hokay, still huntin' a crib. Found one which needs some plumbing work. 'Hot's on the left, cold's on the right, crap don't flow uphill, payday's Friday and the boss is a sumbitch'... I have passed Plumbing 101. Anyway, I'm not even faintly interested in sweating copper together so that leaves my choices as PVC, CPVC and PEX pipe.

PEX uses copper or brass elbows etc and crimp rings with special crimp tools. The others are glue together types. Most interested in freeze characteristics, it can occasionally get down to 0 deg F around here. There's also some stuff floating around teh int3erw3b that the PVC/CPVC gets soft when used with hot water.

So who's used what and with what results?
Dec. 29, 2011 9:45 p.m. joey48442 SuperDork

My whole house is, I think, cpvc. I did most of it myself, with my dads guidance. Pretty easy to install, and cheap. It's not ideal, and will crack if frozen. Allegedly pex won't. That's what I will Install in the future.

Joey
Dec. 29, 2011 9:49 p.m. Cole_Trickle Reader

I worked in the plumbing parts biz for a while. Pex pipe is great stuff. It flexes and holds up to everything (but sunlight). The heated pex stuff is expensive crap. The joints dont hold together well. A local builder had to re-pipe over 50 houses because of it. CPVC is good, but it gets brittle. Which ever you use, make sure that it is insulated if it goes under the house in cold weather environments. They both have a habit of cracking near hose bibs if not insulated. In NC, you just need to go 3 feet in from the foundation with insulation.

If you have Poly-pipe, they do make adapters to switch to Pex, since they require different fittings. Oh and sweating copper is tons of fun!

EDIT: Almost forgot. CPVC will be easier to install because all you need is primer and glue. Pex requires special tools to crimp the fittings tight. They have to be calibrated, so I wouldnt trust using a really old set, or from someone that you dont know.
Dec. 29, 2011 9:56 p.m. patgizz SuperDork

wouldnt touch cpvc with a 39.5 foot pole. i used to use it to be quick or half-ass crappy houses for people who dont like to pay for copper.

my dad had a cpvc line at his well tank and i ran into it with my rc truck and the pipe exploded. i swore it off then and only used copper exclusively until i discovered the awesome that is pex. i still do a ton of copper but pex is wonderful and saves me tons of time.
Dec. 29, 2011 10:08 p.m. TRoglodyte HalfDork

"Don't chew your fingernails"
Dec. 29, 2011 10:19 p.m. fasted58 SuperDork

man up... use the copper
Dec. 29, 2011 10:35 p.m. windsordeluxe New Reader

I re-plumbed my entire house with PEX. I used the Viega Manobloc 24 port manifold and used the "home-run" method of plumbing. I have a shutoff under the house for each fixture and a shutoff at the fixture as well. PEX survives freeze/thaw cycles well....don't ask how I know. After a year, there are absolutely no leaks whatsoever. One Caveat though; you may want to consider having a plumber with a PEX expanding tool install your fittings. Crimp style fittings will reduce your inside diameter of your supply. I purchased my own crimping tool and finished the job before I discovered this, but flow is still significantly greater than most homes I have been in.
Dec. 30, 2011 7:15 a.m. DrBoost SuperDork

I have sweated plenty of copper. I don't trust the expensive PEX unions or PVC in general. Sweating copper involved fire and melting metal, makes me feel like a man.
Dec. 30, 2011 7:30 a.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

This needs to be completely DIY so I'm leaning strongly toward PEX. There's two styles of crimp ring: the copper type and the stainless band, which looks like an Oetiker clamp. The copper ring types seem to involve a lot of installation aggravation with the crimp tools being hard to get into small areas so I'm considering the stainless band type. What says the brain trust?
Dec. 30, 2011 7:40 a.m. Grtechguy SuperDork

Sweating copper is easy. use maap gas to make the job faster. clean, add flux, add heat, add solder. watch it suck in. wipe and be done.

Just don't have any water in the tubing. That will make the job a 1000x harder.
Dec. 30, 2011 9:15 a.m. pete240z SuperDork

I see a lot of the Viega style pro-press copper crimp fittings (with internal rubber o-ring) at a lot of plumbing wholesalers. Everyone says they work great.

Then I look at the sweated copper in my dads house that was installed 41 years ago and I scratch my head. Except for replacing 4 faucets; he has not touched a pipe.
Dec. 30, 2011 9:54 a.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

Sweating copper is easy and the stuff lasts forever.

I used to work for Watts Water, and we tested the Shark-Bite fittings they sell in the big-box stores extensively. They are costly but man they work well. If you can play with Legos, you can install plumbing.
Dec. 30, 2011 11:51 a.m. fasted58 SuperDork

Grtechguy wrote:

Sweating copper is easy. use maap gas to make the job faster. clean, add flux, add heat, add solder. watch it suck in. wipe and be done.

Just don't have any water in the tubing. That will make the job a 1000x harder.

If you have water dripping into a joint like from a bad shut off stuff a wad of bread into the pipe, it'll hold back the water long enuf to solder the joint then it will dissolve later.
Dec. 30, 2011 11:54 a.m. akamcfly Reader

Grtechguy wrote:

Just don't have any water in the tubing. That will make the job berkeleying impossible.

That's more like it.
Dec. 30, 2011 12:02 p.m. dimarra Dork

The last time I tried to sweat copper fittings all I could find was the new lead-free solder.

It was HORRIBLE! It took hours to install a section that should have been done in minutes.

Unless they've improved the mix or I can find leaded solder, I'll stick to plastic pipe.
Dec. 30, 2011 12:28 p.m. Gearheadotaku SuperDork

PEX is great. Use brass fittings and copper manifolds. Home depot has them.

I used copper rings with a big crimper. Only downside is you need a different crimper for different sizes. The stainless clamp type uses the same crimper for all sizes, but costs much more.

I ran PVC from my pump to my water heater etc and manifolds, 1/2" PEX from there. There are braided lines you can get for the water heater, they're nice.

IIRC PVC is a no-no with hot water. I'll try to take pictures tonight.

I'd rather use copper pipe too, but todays prices are crazy!
Dec. 30, 2011 1:29 p.m. Rusted_Busted_Spit SuperDork

Grtechguy wrote:

Sweating copper is easy. use maap gas to make the job faster. clean, add flux, add heat, add solder. watch it suck in. wipe and be done.

Just don't have any water in the tubing. That will make the job a 1000x harder.

Under the guide of my FIL I did this to put a sink in my garage and yes it was very easy.

He also suggested the bread thing,
Dec. 30, 2011 2:31 p.m. patgizz SuperDork

i got the $58 pex crimper that has both 1/2" and 3/4" on it from HD. it has about 12" long handles so its not so bad to use. the pocket crimper must be impossible to use or require hercules grip hands.

those braided stainless connectors for water heaters, particularly the ones with the sharkbite ends, are so cool words can not describe them adequately.
Dec. 30, 2011 3:26 p.m. cliff95 New Reader

dimarra wrote:

The last time I tried to sweat copper fittings all I could find was the new lead-free solder.

It was HORRIBLE! It took hours to install a section that should have been done in minutes.
Trying to use a propane torch with the lead free stuff is an exercise in frustration as you have discovered. You should be using MAPP gas, burns hotter (the lead free solder has a higher melting point). With the right tools it's just as easy as it used to be with the good old stuff.
Dec. 30, 2011 6:16 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

The Viega stuff is pricey and looks well made but what worries me most is the o rings they use. There's all kinds of crap in tap water, I have seen faucet seals and o rings come out in shapes you have to see to believe.

I went to look at this house again today, took a much longer and harder look. Every- and I mean EVERY- sweated copper joint has green corrosion and in some cases water droplets. I got to looking around and toting up all the small jobs it needs and I came up with an 84 y/o Curmudgeon still trying to finish it all. So I passed. There's another house that might yet work out, though.

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