Just saw this thread, lots of good advice here, The gun is the ultimate end all argument tool, and then you have to live with the consequences of your decision. As a former correctional officer I used to carry when off duty, fl allows LEO's to conceal carry off duty with nothing more than your department ID card, 99 percent of the time I carried I never needed it, the one time I thought I needed it I wasn't carrying as the young lady I was out with didn't agree with them so to humor her, I left it at home. Needless to say after that day, she never complained about it again. Not going into details but it involved 2 former inmates that I "busted" inside and they found me on the outside. Unfortunatly she was with me that day. Years of martial arts and practice, can't stress practice enough, I literally walked out of a TaeKwonDo studio one day during sparring practice because I was told by a 4year student that I was not to use my hands, as they didn't "count" (I was taking classes with my niece there, I found her a new school) will take you though 99.7 percent of any situation you will likely ever see yourself in. I was robbed as a pizza delivery driver years ago, I had gotten into the practice of sticking my 3 d-cell mag in my pizza bag along side of the boxes, handed the guy my wallet, went to hand him the pizza's and he flinched like he was going to swing the gun at me, (bringing the gun out of line with me) yeah he caught a mag light to the side of the head. I don't claim to be billy bad ass, but I can tell you this.... I'm going home at the end of the night. No matter what it takes. No gun required, but it's nice to have.
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Jan. 15, 2010 5:57 p.m. Spinout007 HalfDork
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Jan. 15, 2010 6:00 p.m. Spinout007 HalfDork
Toyman01 wrote:
I used to ride around with a shotgun and a 22 in the back window of my truck. Even parked it in the school parking lot like that. I don't think I would try that now, at least not in town.
LOL I remeber that from when I was in school, all the country boy's were going hunting right after school, no one seemed to have a big problem with that.
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Jan. 15, 2010 6:08 p.m. Spinout007 HalfDork
Will wrote:
I carry a pistol (4-inch 1911 .45 auto, of course) for the same reason I wear my seatbelt when I drive: when used properly in a narrow set of circumstances it can save your life. I'd rather have both and not need them than need them and not have them.
And I have to disagree slightly with whoever said not to pull your gun unless you're going to fire. I think it's more accurate to say never draw your weapon unless you're PREPARED to fire. There's a big difference between the two: if, by drawing my weapon, I stop the threat (attacker runs, drops his weapon, whatever) the situation is resolved.
Most cops will tell you don't pull it unless you are going to use it, but that being said, I have to agree with the above statements. One of the best arguments I've heard for concealed carry was this: look at the violent crime rate for Miami, now look at it 10 years ago, and 20 years ago, I think the number of CC permit holders is in the nieghborhood of 7 out of 10 people in Miami, who in their right mind is going to pull a gun in a place where fricken the possibility of 70% of the people you are around are going to pull THIER gun, and shoot YOU! nah I'll pass on that thank you very much! So have ALOT of criminals in the Dade county area.
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Jan. 15, 2010 8:15 p.m. stroker Reader
I've had a CCW license for years and never have actually used it--the benefit of living in a pretty good town. I work for a national mail order shooting and reloading supplier and I'll bet that more than half the employees are carrying every day. Its very rare that I see "printing" though.
Per previous observations, your cell phone, situational awareness and your two feet are your first and best line of defense. The conventional wisdom here is that you should have a handgun case you need it, but the price on pulling that trigger (even in a justified case of self-defense) is every single thing you own, starting with your house and retirement fund. Be damned sure it's worth pulling the trigger.
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Jan. 15, 2010 8:58 p.m. Wally UberDork
Salanis wrote:
I am not at all opposed to CCW.
...but I've decided every time someone says their planning to do that, I'm going to ask if they have CPR training and carry a face shield (for doing cpr) and sterile gloves. Since you're way more likely to be in a situation to use those things to save a life.
I do, I haven't needed to use them luckily
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Jan. 15, 2010 9:32 p.m. Drewsifer Reader
I definitely going to get a CCP when I get back. I think a lot of people assume that if you're carrying you're doing it for all the wrong reasons (want to look cool, paranoia, etc). It certainly seems that way from this thread.
But I agree with 90% of what has been said. Being aware and having a charged cell phone will save your bacon more often than a gun. But sometimes that isn't enough.
And of course a gun should only be an absolute last line of defense. Just like trying to physically defend yourself from an mugger. Unless you think you're life is in danger you should give them your wallet or car keys.
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Jan. 16, 2010 6:59 a.m. EricM Dork
Salanis wrote:
I am not at all opposed to CCW.
...but I've decided every time someone says their planning to do that, I'm going to ask if they have CPR training and carry a face shield (for doing cpr) and sterile gloves. Since you're way more likely to be in a situation to use those things to save a life.
cpr and aed :)
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Jan. 16, 2010 12:06 p.m. Salanis UberDork
EricM wrote:
Salanis wrote:
I am not at all opposed to CCW.
...but I've decided every time someone says their planning to do that, I'm going to ask if they have CPR training and carry a face shield (for doing cpr) and sterile gloves. Since you're way more likely to be in a situation to use those things to save a life.
cpr and aed :)
Rock on!
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Jan. 16, 2010 5:36 p.m. Spinout007 HalfDork
stroker wrote:
but the price on pulling that trigger (even in a justified case of self-defense) is every single thing you own, starting with your house and retirement fund. Be damned sure it's worth pulling the trigger.
'Unfortunately this is almost 100% truth, hence the tactical training mentioned earlier, in this thread should be considered necessary elective training. Double tap to center mass + 1 to the head, their not getting up, now u just have to worry about their family suing the wee outta you. Even if a judge/jury find that it was justified. I know someone who shot, an intruder in his home years ago, 1 round, stopped the perp, and he let the police take it from there. HE LOST ALMOST EVERYTHING, from being sued, due to pain and suffering....yeah I know, dumb 2#$#@$ broke into someone's home, got shot in the process and then sued the guy for shooting him....yeah ugly.
Then again, this just might work instead of a gun.
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Jan. 16, 2010 6:55 p.m. Tifosi2k2 New Reader
My Dad has been an NRA Basic Pistol instructor for as long as I can remember. When Ohio passed their CCW laws he became an instructor in that as well. Sooner or later I'll take the course, get the permit, etc. But probably wont carry. Honestly, if it ever gets so bad that I feel like I HAVE to carry, having a permit will be the least of my worries.
Not much to worry about here in small town Ohio, nothing ever happens here. Lately though, we have had a series of burglaries, and two armed home invasions. In redneck, small town Ohio where everyone hunts or shoots, it's surprising none of the bad guys have been ventilated yet. Police did their jobs and captured the culprits, but not before a few old ladies were terrorized.
Spinout007 wrote: I know someone who shot, an intruder in his home years ago, 1 round, stopped the perp, and he let the police take it from there. HE LOST ALMOST EVERYTHING, from being sued, due to pain and suffering....yeah I know, dumb 2#$#@$ broke into someone's home, got shot in the process and then sued the guy for shooting him....yeah ugly.
Back in 2008, Ohio finally passed Castle Doctrine specifically to protect homeowners from liability in cases like your friend. Before you had to retreat, even in your own home, and be faced with deadly force in order to respond in kind. Now their uninvited presence in your home is enough to use deadly force if you feel threatened, or that the situation may escalate to a point where you may feel threatened. They also extended it to your vehicle as well..... no more car jackings.
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Jan. 16, 2010 7:03 p.m. fastmiata Reader
I carry. I dont advertise it and have never pulled a weapon in anger. There are several weapons at the office and about the same number at home. I also have a few weapons that fit well in the automotive scenario.
As you get older, you find that you are rarely in those situations ie the Old City at closing time where you feel the need to be armed. If people didnt personalize their anger in lawsuits against attorneys, I would probably stop. However my theory is also affected by the anti-gun types; I didnt own an assault weapon until the ban was proposed. Also none of my weapons are registered having been purchased on secondary market.
I do remember one place where I did pull a weapon: traveling in rural Fla several yrs ago(someplace on A1A) my wife needed to use the restroom and the only available place was a beach facility. While there were no cars in the parking lot, I cleared the building then instructed my wife to be below knee height if something happened.
My firearms training includes the basic Tn cc courses but also the annual firearms course for cops in my community and a week at FLETC. Protection is situational and the best defense is anticipation and preparation. -
Jan. 16, 2010 7:25 p.m. MrJoshua UltraDork
Yeah, I'm thinking the odds of your wife dropping to the ground in a beach restroom are slim to none.
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Jan. 16, 2010 7:32 p.m. Tifosi2k2 New Reader
For those who would like some more training but can't afford the price of actual tactical training courses, there is a company called Magpul, who is one of the top manufacturers of accessories and furniture for AR15's.... anyway Magpul Dynamics is their training arm of the business. In addition to putting on classes all over the country, they also have published several training dvd's, The Art of the Tactical Carbine 1 & 2. they are set to release The Art of the Dynamic Handgun in early Febuary.... based on their previous dvd's this is one not to be missed.
Trailer here: Art of the Dynamic Handgun
Not as good as an actual course, but definitely better than nothing. And if you are a "Gun Guy", the Gun porn within is not to be missed.
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Jan. 16, 2010 7:52 p.m. vazbmw Reader
stroker wrote: ...The conventional wisdom here is that you should have a handgun case you need it, but the price on pulling that trigger (even in a justified case of self-defense) is every single thing you own, starting with your house and retirement fund. Be damned sure it's worth pulling the trigger.
That is what I was taught when I received my CC License. I agree with it. You have to take inconsideration that high cost of shooting someone. It is no joke.
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Jan. 16, 2010 8:26 p.m. mapper New Reader
I see the repercussions for those who shoot in self defense getting much worse. I still have hope that someone with a brain will finally realize that law abiding citizens have a right not to be killed or maimed by those who have devoted their lives to being scum.
I am comforted by the fact that the police stand a slight chance of catching the dirt bag who kills me or my family. They sure as hell are not going to stop the criminal from commiting the crime.
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Jan. 16, 2010 11:05 p.m. vazbmw Reader
ya criminals suck.
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Jan. 17, 2010 12:42 a.m. slantvaliant HalfDork
vazbmw wrote: . You have to take inconsideration that high cost of shooting someone.
... and compare it to the cost of being killed.
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Jan. 19, 2010 8:47 p.m. digdug18 Reader
92dxman, Just goto the court house in doylestown, with your check book, and visit the sheriffs office. They'll make you fill out a form and you'll have your concealed carry permit in a couple of weeks or so. If you lived in philly I understand its alot more difficult, phych exam and such, but in bucks county its easy peasey.
If you need some place to look for a gun, let me know I can suggest a couple of good gunshops around you. Just stay away from guns and guitars in montgomeryville, the name says it all, I once was in there and watched him try to clean a AR15 with a round in the chamber, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but is a tool.
Andrew
