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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Anyone own/opened a bar? Young entrepreneur looking for advice.

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June 25, 2010 12:16 p.m. coll9947 New Reader

Hey all. I'm a college student that started late, majoring in Business and IT Management. Recently I discovered that a delicious piece of property near me could be going up for sale or auction for dimes on the dollar. My fellow Business friends and I want to open a just-beer-for-now bar on the site if we can put together a solid business model and get funding. (Liquor licenses in Idaho are really expensive, five to six figures, but a beer & wine license is under a grand.)

Anyone that has opened a bar or any small business have some advice for us? We're curious about things like insurance and the sort of unforeseen costs that you only discover when you're open for business.
June 25, 2010 12:23 p.m. Karl La Follette HalfDork

No help here but right next door to us coming in august 1 st is the www.highoctanesaloon.com . We are in for whatever comes with this type of business . I am guessing I could send customers over for a beer while i tint their car and maybe sell some helmut and tank fender graphics .

We are also thinking food concession as they have no food .

maybe see a titty or two but I am guessing plenty of this
June 25, 2010 12:52 p.m. nutherjrfan Reader

owning your own place is a big plus, and if you can build it out for dimes on the dollar, that's a even bigger plus. HVAC the E36 M3 out of it, I lost a bunch of customers the last two nites because our owners didn't do it right. A sweaty waiter, and irritated customers do not make for a fun experience. Dunno how your regulatory people are, but here in the District they, ahem, suck. Be prepared on that front, might be best to hire an expert. oh yeah, PBR is the hot new thing amongst the hipsters in D.C., it's the only beer you can get for $3 here. Just be nice to your customers, really attentive, that'll create goodwill. Get a Facebook page the moment the wheels start rolling, people love the details of a new bar - whilst I dislike neighborhood bloggers, use 'em. Theme nites - quizzes are always popular. Entertainment licenses, do not neglect, do not think you can get away without. And card, card, card - I know too many bars I frequent that get hammered on this, especially if your local govt. needs to close a budget gap. The fewer partners the better, investors yes, partners not so much. God, there's so much more. I like moving jobs to new bars, lots of fun in what can be a dreary industry. oh yeah, don't invest with/hire alcoholics - if they're getting drunk more than 3 nites a week it's not gonna be pretty often. recovered alcoholics are excellent - if somewhat cynical. peace out!
June 25, 2010 12:57 p.m. z31maniac Dork

$100k for a liqour license? Ouch.
June 25, 2010 1:01 p.m. Woody SuperDork

1981 HD Sturgis.

Karl La Follette wrote:
June 25, 2010 1:03 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

John Haas is probably the dude you wanna talk to, but I think he's rarely on the board (probably because he's working his arse off.) He's involved with this outfit, which I think is a freaking phenomenal idea (barcade:)

http://www.fortsandersyachtclub.com/

IMHO, dollar drafts and 25 cent wings will get people in the do' fo' sho'
June 25, 2010 1:08 p.m. mndsm HalfDork

Yeah, good cheap food and icy cold brew is always a good draw. Helps if you cater to a crowd too, though not to the point that you alienate everyone else.
June 25, 2010 1:10 p.m. xd New Reader

I will give you the best advice you will ever get on the subject. A bar is not a business it is a hobby. Everyone I have ever known who owned a bar either was supported by their wife or it went out of business or was sold for a loss within a year. On a side note You can get a ton of franchises that make real money for less then the cost of the liquor license. Plus you will not have to be awake until 4 am every day.
June 25, 2010 1:20 p.m. nutherjrfan Reader

lol, one of current employers has a gainfully employed wife and quite happily admits so. my friend is only open after 4years due to some very forgiving investors, I don't ask, but I'm not sure where he lives tho' - too much empathy to ask. and yes, he is single - will probably stay that way as long as he owns the bar too. owning the property outright would be a big plus.
June 25, 2010 1:42 p.m. benzbaron HalfDork

I always thought it would be nice to have a bar that could serve food. On monday make a pot of ham and beans, tuesday corned beef and cabbage, wednesday enchiladas, etc. Offer good homemade food to go with good beer hopefully people will come. I think having something simmering in a crock pot that makes the bar smell like good food would be a good idea. Cater to the locals, they will make or break the joint.

Beer is easy, food is easy, staffing is the hard part. Make sure you have people who actually work, I hate going into a bar/restaurant and seeing unbused tables. When someone leaves, immediately remove the dishes and clean the table. Keep the bar clean, the restroom shouldn't smell like piss from a mile away.

Go to all the local bars and see what works and what doesn't. Are you sure the people you are going into business are willing to make the sacrifices to ensure it succeeds? Will they wake up early to scrub the floors and toilets, stay after closing to clean up the stale beer? Owning a restaurant/bar is a lifestyle choice, your life will revolve around the business.

If you don't have funding now isn't the greatest time to find it. Would you be willing to loan 50k to a couple of college kids with no prior bar/restaurant experience?
June 25, 2010 1:54 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

Moar advice as a business owner and dive-bar lover:

Keep overhead LOOOOOWWWW. Easy in theory. Tough in practice, unless you get in those habits early on. I like dive-y bars. Ones where they have to keep it damned near pitch-black in the place so you don't see how filthy the walls are. Bitchy bar-maids who want you to order your berkeleying drink and get the berkeley out of their way so they can make more money. Juke-box in lieu of a DJ, and the type of crowd who's attracted by the idea of cheap drinks and loose women, and couldn't give two E36 M3s about what music is playing or how lovely the atmosphere is.

All these things lend themselves to low-overhead.

If you're going to serve food KEEP_IT_SIMPLE. So simple, a monkey could do it. If you sell a burger, it's a good, greasey slab of meat on a bun, unless you order cheese. Then it's a cheeseburger. Bring ketchup and mustard packets out with the burger. Have a small grill for burgers and dogs, and a fryer for wings and fries. Do those 4 things really well, and people will buy them. Don't like the food options? Tough luck. It's a berkeleying bar. Want a salad with your beer and service with a smile? Go to the berkeleying olive garden, nancy.

Don't have 8,000 beer choices either. Leave that for Taco Mac, where a pint of Iron City (berkeleying swill,) will set you back more than a 6-pack. Have a Lager, a "light" beer, and the cheapest damned beer you can find on tap (this is where your "dollar drafts" come in,) and maybe a few ridiculously priced medium-grade beers (heineken, newcastle, etc,) in bottles. Maybe throw in ONE local microbrew for the snobs.
June 25, 2010 3:25 p.m. coll9947 New Reader

One parter in this adventure has a marketing degree and is already deep into law school, the other is a computer programmer that also happens to brew award-winning beer. I'm the fixer with the business / supply chain / IT management degree (soon). Overhead is our number one concern.

We're going for a neighborhood pub atmosphere. Not even going to serve food at first. German beer-house type bench seating so people don't keep to themselves and are encouraged to meet their neighbors. There's little parking so we're -really- playing on the neighborhood thing, lots of bike racks and a big patio. Walking and biking to the bar are highly encouraged.

We'll serve the usual major brands but will also have fantastic home brew for so little more that people would be stupid not to buy it.

Right now the property is equal distance between the most divey bar in town and a dive-ish sports bar, both dark and smoky and full of baby-boomer bar flies that wait for the doors to open most mornings. We're targeting a much younger crowd than these bars. It's located on the edge of what we refer to as the Iron Triangle, a neighborhood in the armpit of Boise State that is full of college students, thirsty ones at that. The other college bars around town are loud, cramped, and frequented by... well let's say the Affliction T-shirt wearing set. (Think Jersey Shore and you're close.)
June 25, 2010 4:19 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

poopshovel wrote:

Moar advice as a business owner and dive-bar lover:

Keep overhead LOOOOOWWWW. Easy in theory. Tough in practice, unless you get in those habits early on. I like dive-y bars. Ones where they have to keep it damned near pitch-black in the place so you don't see how filthy the walls are. Bitchy bar-maids who want you to order your berkeleying drink and get the berkeley out of their way so they can make more money. Juke-box in lieu of a DJ, and the type of crowd who's attracted by the idea of cheap drinks and loose women, and couldn't give two E36 M3s about what music is playing or how lovely the atmosphere is.

All these things lend themselves to low-overhead.

If you're going to serve food KEEP_IT_SIMPLE. So simple, a monkey could do it. If you sell a burger, it's a good, greasey slab of meat on a bun, unless you order cheese. Then it's a cheeseburger. Bring ketchup and mustard packets out with the burger. Have a small grill for burgers and dogs, and a fryer for wings and fries. Do those 4 things really well, and people will buy them. Don't like the food options? Tough luck. It's a berkeleying bar. Want a salad with your beer and service with a smile? Go to the berkeleying olive garden, nancy.

Don't have 8,000 beer choices either. Leave that for Taco Mac, where a pint of Iron City (berkeleying swill,) will set you back more than a 6-pack. Have a Lager, a "light" beer, and the cheapest damned beer you can find on tap (this is where your "dollar drafts" come in,) and maybe a few ridiculously priced medium-grade beers (heineken, newcastle, etc,) in bottles. Maybe throw in ONE local microbrew for the snobs.

This. Plus hard liquor. LOTS OF IT.
June 25, 2010 4:27 p.m. MitchellC Dork

See: Liquor license.
June 25, 2010 4:49 p.m. thatsnowinnebago Dork

For me, the best bars have an awesome atmosphere. I really couldn't care less about the actual bar itself. Cool bartenders = cool bar. I like the idea of big long benches to make it hard to keep to yourself.
June 25, 2010 5:15 p.m. skruffy SuperDork

Keep in mind that you probably won't be allowed, legally anyway, to buy beer directly from your brewer buddy. He'll have to get hooked up with whatever distributor you choose. Many beer distributors won't touch craft beers due to the low volume.
June 25, 2010 7:47 p.m. racerfink Reader

Be prepared to spend more time than you want to there, every day that you own the place.
June 25, 2010 8:55 p.m. coll9947 New Reader

Our brewing buddy has already looked into the state laws to start producing the volume to start selling six packs at the local place-where-they-sell-good-beer-that's-hard-to-find, so we're working out an arrangement where he has brewing space at our bar, and the other two of us are initial partners in his brewery, so he has a place to build a fan-base and start selling a few six packs around town. Where he goes from there is up to him, but we collect a percentage.

There are some regulations regarding quantity and whatnot which he has to keep from exceeding. But if we fund his ability to manufacture beer in the state and we are licensed to sell it then we've arranged to get the beer from him at-cost.

I'm all for spending a lot of time at the place, we want to do every single thing ourselves that we possibly can.
June 25, 2010 8:59 p.m. Woody SuperDork

You will quickly tire of being in a bar until closing time and drunken college kids won't be quite so much fun anymore.
June 26, 2010 12:44 a.m. NYG95GA SuperDork

What Woody said.

There is a neighborhood tavern very near my home that was converted from a restaraunt 20 years ago. Since then it's been through at least 6 owners and name changes. Every one of the owners had always dreamed of how great it would be to own a bar, and every one has burned out in a matter of years. The place gets plenty of traffic, and does good business, but the dream is muddied by the reality of what it takes to run a bar. Over the last two decades, the bar has run the gamut of types; it's been a biker bar, a music bar, a gay bar, a sports bar, and is now operasting chiefly as a Nascar bar. It's a great place that's close to home, and regulars from all the former iterations still frequent it. On any given night you can see bikers sitting next to gays and race fans, sports fans and music lovers. The lady (term used loosely) that runs it keeps pretty tight reins on the crowd, and everyone gets along (most of the time). To call the pace eclectic would be an understatement.

Problem is that along with the joy of making people happy with good drink while making money is that there are problems like any other business. With a place that sells alcohol, there are many difficult situations that arise; it's the nature of the beast. You might need a bouncer. You will have to adhere to sometimes dumbass laws. You wil be expected to cater to people that are less than kind to the help.

Speaking of the help.. finding a really truly good bartender is harder than you think, and without them, your bar is doomed. When you find them, treat them like fine pearls, and pay them enough that they won't dip into the till.

These are observations from the other side of the bar, but I've witnessed what's in the belly of the beast, and it ain't as pretty as it seems.

Having said all that, I think you should go ahead and do it. Running your own business is very enlightening, and will teach you things you could never learn elsewhere.
June 26, 2010 6:24 a.m. Luke SuperDork

poopshovel wrote:

Ones where they have to keep it damned near pitch-black in the place so you don't see how filthy the walls are. Bitchy bar-maids who want you to order your berkeleying drink and get the berkeley out of their way so they can make more money. Juke-box in lieu of a DJ, and the type of crowd who's attracted by the idea of cheap drinks and loose women, and couldn't give two E36 M3s about what music is playing or how lovely the atmosphere is.

That describes my local pub to a tee. Unpretentious, simple, predictable, bit rough around the edges.

To the OP, good luck!
June 26, 2010 8:10 a.m. petegossett SuperDork

There's a local, profitable(so I'm told) bar for sale here for $125k including the property, license, inventory & everything else.

Like others have mentioned, the fun of the party goes away quickly when you aren't the one partying, but are stuck cleaning it all up in the end.
June 26, 2010 9:19 a.m. HiTempguy HalfDork

Not even going to serve food at first

Disagree. The only time I go out for a drink is if I can have AT LEAST nachos/hot wings. I never go for just a drink, and I can honestly say its not very often you see people at a pub not munching on a burger. What I am saying is that somebody mentioned something about home cooked. Basically, make food item for everyday of the week that is kind of lunch-ish and supper-ish. Only serve that one item each day, repeating each week. That would be cool, and probably quite low cost!
June 26, 2010 9:33 a.m. mattmacklind SuperDork

xd wrote:

I will give you the best advice you will ever get on the subject. A bar is not a business it is a hobby. Everyone I have ever known who owned a bar either was supported by their wife or it went out of business or was sold for a loss within a year. On a side note You can get a ton of franchises that make real money for less then the cost of the liquor license. Plus you will not have to be awake until 4 am every day.

Agreed, as a retired professional bartender, I would almost always rather tend a bar than own one.
June 26, 2010 4:32 p.m. coll9947 New Reader

Thank you all so much for the input! I'll let you know how it goes!

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