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z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
2/18/11 9:07 a.m.

I'm going crazy not having a project car (saving up to build an LSx powered E30) at the moment and have been wanting to get a gun or two and started wondering if there gun kits, of course, I know now that they exist.

However, being a relative noob to firearms, I have NO idea about what companies are reputable, good quality. Or if I would need any special tools to assemble one? Or if it's even a project I should do since I'm still learning? It seems that an improperly assembled firearm would be a horrific danger.

But I figured if I can strip/rebuild/swap an E30 in a gravel driveway, I could handle a gun kit.

What say the GRM gun enthusiasts?

triumph5
triumph5 Dork
2/18/11 9:15 a.m.

NO. You can screw up a rebuild on an engine, trans, wheel hub, etc...do the same on an automatic AR-15 and you risk losing your hands or life. I would be like, "hhmmm, never built a pipe bomb before to get rid of that stump, I'll just throw some black powder into this pipe, tamp it down nice'n' compact with this metal mallet..."

NO, no, no. Find something else. Like, if you can build an E30, why not an airplane for you and your family??

Seen too much of this type of thinking splattered all over.

pilotbraden
pilotbraden HalfDork
2/18/11 9:19 a.m.

Read a book about assembling the gun of your choice. Most guns require some specialized tools but they appear to be simple to make.

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
2/18/11 9:24 a.m.
triumph5 wrote: NO. You can screw up a rebuild on an engine, trans, wheel hub, etc...do the same on an automatic AR-15 and you risk losing your hands or life. I would be like, "hhmmm, never built a pipe bomb before to get rid of that stump, I'll just throw some black powder into this pipe, tamp it down nice'n' compact with this metal mallet..." NO, no, no. Find something else. Like, if you can build an E30, why not an airplane for you and your family?? Seen too much of this type of thinking splattered all over.

That's why I was asking, because I don't know.

So really you could have just said, probably not, without all the douchebaggery?

Ignorant
Ignorant SuperDork
2/18/11 9:28 a.m.

Build an Ultralight.

Rumnhammer
Rumnhammer Reader
2/18/11 9:29 a.m.

Depends on how involved you want to be in building an AR-15. I'm currently waiting on my tax return and will be doing exactly this in a couple of weeks. While you can build one completely from parts, this requires some special tools, although still easy as far as Firearms go.

The route I'm takeing is get a stripped lower reciever. Then adding a kit with an already assembled upper reciever. This way all you have to do is install the trigger group and parts in the lower then it just pins onto the already assembled upper. very easy and about the only special tool you need is a stock wrench to tighten the stock castle nut.

I got a stripped spikes tactical lower from Brownells for $89 This is the part that is numbered and needs to be shipped to an FFL. Then I'm getting a complete kit from Model 1 that can be shipped to your house via UPS. You can completely customise the kit to have the AR configured any way YOU want it. The barrel is already installed timed and headspaced, the gas block and tube are already in place. It really could not be any easier.

I'd say go for it, and get one. You can have an AR cheaper then buying one already put together you get it configured the way you want it and have the satisfaction of having done it yourself.

Chris Rummel

Ps Go to the Brownells website, they have a complete video series that you can watch that outlines everything you need to know about assembling an AR 15. Everything including laws, tools required and after that it is a step by step videos showing exactly how to put it together, even if you want to do it all from parts. CR

triumph5
triumph5 Dork
2/18/11 9:35 a.m.
z31maniac wrote:
triumph5 wrote: NO. You can screw up a rebuild on an engine, trans, wheel hub, etc...do the same on an automatic AR-15 and you risk losing your hands or life. I would be like, "hhmmm, never built a pipe bomb before to get rid of that stump, I'll just throw some black powder into this pipe, tamp it down nice'n' compact with this metal mallet..." NO, no, no. Find something else. Like, if you can build an E30, why not an airplane for you and your family?? Seen too much of this type of thinking splattered all over.

That's why I was asking, because I don't know.

So really you could have just said, probably not, without all the douchebaggery?

Yup, but the "douchebaggery" got your attention, and if it keeps you from blowing your hands off, it's worth the title. I volunteer with the local Fire Dept as time allows, and what people try.... Yes, came across a bit strong, but, if you want to try weapons, why not start with a class at a local club/range, and find out before stepping off the deep end with an AR-15.

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/18/11 9:39 a.m.
triumph5 wrote: NO. You can screw up a rebuild on an engine, trans, wheel hub, etc...do the same on an automatic AR-15 and you risk losing your hands or life. I would be like, "hhmmm, never built a pipe bomb before to get rid of that stump, I'll just throw some black powder into this pipe, tamp it down nice'n' compact with this metal mallet..." NO, no, no. Find something else. Like, if you can build an E30, why not an airplane for you and your family?? Seen too much of this type of thinking splattered all over.

um, okay, first of all, AR-15s are not fully automatic, they are semi-auto only unless you have a ton of money for the tax stamp and all the paperwork to make it legal, in which case you'd probably already have the money for an LS1 E30... EDIT: you don't think he can put together a gun that grunts have been taking apart and putting back together in the field for over 40 years now, but you suggest he build an airplane? for he and his family?

in building an AR you can decide to do as little or as much of the work yourself as you want. you can buy a complete gun, the upper and lowers already assembled and simply attach the two, or you can buy each and every piece you need separately, or if you just want a basic first gun, there are gun parts kits that have everything except for the stripped receiver included. the receiver is the only part with a serial number, so you have to do the federal background check like any other gun.

for my first gun, i bought a complete lower, and complete upper, as there are some specialty tools, but also supposedly the gas port bolts on the bolt carrier have to be staked properly or you can have reliability issues, or things coming apart while you're shooting. you could get around this by buying an assembled bolt also.

i like the versatility that the AR platform allows, i can use the same lower receiver and simply swap out mags and upper assemblies to shoot 22LR, .223/5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 grendel, 6.8 SPC, 450 bushmaster or even .50 beowulf. there are also a couple of pistol round conversions that use a magwell block and stick mags from an uzi or similar to shoot 9mm, .40cal, or .45ACP.

i posted my "build" a few months ago in the "craigslist for firearms" thread, but it appears my host has died. i'll try to put those pictures up on my photobucket in a few. feel free to PM with any build questions you might have.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/craigslist-for-firearms/28483/page2/

Rumnhammer
Rumnhammer Reader
2/18/11 9:45 a.m.

Yeah, you can even get an upper now that uses your AR lower to fire a bolt action .50 BMG!!! now that is what I call versitile!!

Chris Rummel

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/18/11 9:47 a.m.

In reply to Rumnhammer:

haven't heard of that one, is it single shot? i don't think the .50 BMG round will fit through the magwell. hell, 30-06 and .308 have to use a different lower.

Rumnhammer
Rumnhammer Reader
2/18/11 9:55 a.m.

In reply to Strizzo:

Yeah, it is a complete upper that uses a bolt action and just uses the AR lower for the hammer against the back of the BMG bolt. The rounds are loaded single one at a time the magwell is not used at all. Runs about $1200 for a 20inch barrel and $1300 for 30 inch....Not a bad deal!

Here is the website bohicaarms.com and here is a second version, that apparently feeds from a side magazine ..... tactilite.com

Chris Rummel

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/18/11 9:59 a.m.

yeah thats a bargain considering the cost of a full-on BMG.

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
2/18/11 10:24 a.m.

^Thanks for the info guys. Buying a kit with "detail" work already done is definitely the answer.

I'll look around on the web sites.

strizzo, I'm sure I'll be PMing you sometime in the next week or two with some questions.

triumph5 wrote: Yup, but the "douchebaggery" got your attention, and if it keeps you from blowing your hands off, it's worth the title. I volunteer with the local Fire Dept as time allows, and what people try.... Yes, came across a bit strong, but, if you want to try weapons, why not start with a class at a local club/range, and find out before stepping off the deep end with an AR-15.

I disagree. See the other posts in this thread that provide info/options as opposed to "absolutely not, you will hurt yourself."

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/18/11 10:34 a.m.

all this conversion upper talk reminded me that there is a guy on rimfirecentral developing a 22mag AR upper that takes ruger barrels and will take ruger rotary mags.

minimac
minimac SuperDork
2/18/11 10:38 a.m.

I was considering putting one together too, but opted for a couple of low cost knockoffs instead. I Figured I can use these to see how I like them, learn about them, and then, after gaining some knowledge, modify them to my liking, before building something. We got similar to the bottom two here:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Family/2/1/AR15-Rifles.htm?ltid-all=1&t=&as=365&mn=0&mx=0&ffl=&ca=&co=&f=2&sort=&numberperpage=50&cid=1371&lid=&dn=&ns=0&zipcode=&distance=0&limittostate=&

triumph5
triumph5 Dork
2/18/11 10:41 a.m.

I agree to disagree and agree. ? As first posted it read I'm going to buy me a build it from scratch kit/mess around with it post. To which I responded,;yes, a bit over the top, but, that was me at that time.

The following posters came forward with the good advice, the availability of kits in various forms of completeness, and good options for you to follow, and THAT's a good thing. The last thing I wanted you to do was the idiotic thing I've seen too often. . As one who shoots regularly, it's fun a stress reliever, and I enjoy the competition. Starting with an AR-15 still seems a bit extreme, just be aware of what it's capable of, and don't retrofit with the easily available full auto kits when starting out. And take a gun safety course. Please. And follow the advice, too.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn SuperDork
2/18/11 10:53 a.m.
However, being a relative noob to firearms

This is the red flag here...I agree with triumph5, don't jump straight into the deep end of the pool right away.

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
2/18/11 11:03 a.m.
triumph5 wrote:
z31maniac wrote:
triumph5 wrote: NO. You can screw up a rebuild on an engine, trans, wheel hub, etc...do the same on an automatic AR-15 and you risk losing your hands or life. I would be like, "hhmmm, never built a pipe bomb before to get rid of that stump, I'll just throw some black powder into this pipe, tamp it down nice'n' compact with this metal mallet..." NO, no, no. Find something else. Like, if you can build an E30, why not an airplane for you and your family?? Seen too much of this type of thinking splattered all over.

That's why I was asking, because I don't know.

So really you could have just said, probably not, without all the douchebaggery?

Yup, but the "douchebaggery" got your attention, and if it keeps you from blowing your hands off, it's worth the title. I volunteer with the local Fire Dept as time allows, and what people try.... Yes, came across a bit strong, but, if you want to try weapons, why not start with a class at a local club/range, and find out before stepping off the deep end with an AR-15.

No.

A freakin' three fingered infant monkey could assemble an AR. There are dozens of books and videos about building one, get one, enjoy!

slantvaliant
slantvaliant Dork
2/18/11 11:19 a.m.

Alternatives: The Ruger 10/22 has the Mr. Potatohead interchangeability and a great aftermarket support, without the pesky high pressures and expensive ammunition. One can tinker without too much risk. I'm working mine toward the "Liberty Training Rifle" mode - aperture rear sight, post front, shooting sling, reasonable trigger - as a subcaliber trainer for my military rifles.

Another way to get into the nuts and bolts of firearms is through surplus rifles. Mosin Nagants are cheap right now, with some aftermarket goodies available. Just refinishing one will teach you a lot.

How about a percussion rifle kit? Not as tacticool and the AR's, but you get to work with wood, polish metal, and all that. Then you can play Jeremiah Johnson. Not so good for zombies, though.

triumph5
triumph5 Dork
2/18/11 11:20 a.m.

I look forward to seeing a three fingered, infant monkey assembling one. Post the video when said monkey fires one. Nice backhand compliment to the OP.

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
2/18/11 11:30 a.m.

I guess I should have a said a noob to rifles/shotguns. I have shot plenty of handguns and know how to properly handle one. The wife and I are taking our Concealed Carry class next month.

But could ALL OF US (me included) chill with douchebaggery, I love this forum because it's NOT like 99% of other online interactions.

That said, keep the info/suggestions coming!

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/18/11 11:45 a.m.
triumph5 wrote: I look forward to seeing a three fingered, infant monkey assembling one. Post the video when said monkey fires one. Nice backhand compliment to the OP.

one has to question your logic since you suggest that he can't handle the complexities of building and shooting a rifle that has been taken apart and put back together by grunts all over the world for the better part of 40 years now and then in the next sentence suggest he could handle building an airplane as that would be more safe

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
2/18/11 11:48 a.m.
triumph5 wrote: I look forward to seeing a three fingered, infant monkey assembling one. Post the video when said monkey fires one. Nice backhand compliment to the OP.

Calling the OP a three fingered monkey (which I did not), is considerably better than the oxygen theif you assumed he is.

And what sort of person calls an AR-15 automatic and then claims to have experience with poorly made ones?

Here, I'll be realistic and useful, something you're clearly lacking in this thread:
Link
Link
Link

Do note a complete build of an AR-15 requires some special tools. They're cheap and easy to use, though.

YaNi
YaNi Reader
2/18/11 12:53 p.m.
automatic AR-15

DOH!

AR's are as close to legos as guns get. A few punches, carbine stock wrench, barrel nut wrench, and you are GTG. It's really as fool proof as it gets. You aren't building an AR, you are assembling an AR... HUGE DIFFERENCE. You don't have to bother with things like headspace, because that is determined by the barrel extension (which comes already adjusted as part of a barrel assembly). My friends and I have built numerous AR's and they all function flawlessly if you buy quality parts.

1) Get on AR15.com and search (or put your flamesuit on and post away)

2) Buy a stripped lower receiver locally and get everything else online.

3)The actual assembly is kind of disappointing. Weeks/months of drooling, saving, and waiting and the gun is assembled in under an hour.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
2/18/11 1:00 p.m.

How about AK's? Who's built an AK on here? What's the best "build instructions" on teh w3bz, y0?

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