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digdug18
digdug18 HalfDork
2/19/11 10:32 p.m.
Osterkraut wrote:
triumph5 wrote: An Ar-15 can easily be made into a full auto without much trouble;

Troll, nobody assembles ( I like that phrase better) an AR and then oops! It's fully automatic! You'd have to actively seak out a difficult part (pretty sure it's the sear) to obtain, and install it.

Not that hard to find a select fire sear, though its not the only part needed to turn it into full auto or select fire. There are simpler ways available. If it were me, I'd grab one of the technically legal "gat triggers" or behind tripper spring kits. They allow more or less full auto, but the trigger is pulled for each round, making it legal. Some of the names are hellfire trigger, super tac trigger, etc.

As for building one, I'd start off with a good book, as suggested browse brownells online catalog, buy a book, read it cover to cover. Decide what you want the rifle for? Are you target shooting, self defense, end of the world scenario, etc. Then go from there. I find it much cheaper to buy an assembled lower receiver, then choose what upper and barrel assembly you want.

Andrew

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
2/20/11 11:59 a.m.
digdug18 wrote:
Osterkraut wrote:
triumph5 wrote: An Ar-15 can easily be made into a full auto without much trouble;

Troll, nobody assembles ( I like that phrase better) an AR and then oops! It's fully automatic! You'd have to actively seak out a difficult part (pretty sure it's the sear) to obtain, and install it.

Not that hard to find a select fire sear, though its not the only part needed to turn it into full auto or select fire. There are simpler ways available. If it were me, I'd grab one of the technically legal "gat triggers" or behind tripper spring kits. They allow more or less full auto, but the trigger is pulled for each round, making it legal. Some of the names are hellfire trigger, super tac trigger, etc.

Andrew

If you are considering buying an auto sear to convert your AR15 to a full automatic firearm, there is only one option - the registered & transferable DIAS. While it may be tempting to buy a pre-81 to save thousands over the registered sear, the risks are considerable. Possession of an unregistered machinegun (a pre-81 DIAS and an AR15 rifle...or possibly even just a so called “pre-81” DIAS) is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, and up to a $10,000 fine, and permanent loss of your right to ever own a gun or vote again. Numerous rumors have circulated that some of the people selling the pre-81 sears are actually BATF operations. Buyer beware.

The price of a registered auto sear? They start at $8,000. Your definition is "easy" is way different than mine.

2002maniac
2002maniac HalfDork
2/20/11 2:08 p.m.
Drewsifer wrote: Del-Ton Inc Complete Lower: http://www.del-ton.com/lower_receiver_s/5.htm - $180 Del-Ton Inc. 16" Rifle Kit: http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt104.htm - $465 If you keep it simple, you've got everything you need to make a working rifle right there.

That would actually give you a lot of extra parts as the rifle kit includes everything but the stripped lower. I built a del-ton mid length kit using a dpms lower. The upper came assembled and test fired (i had them add a yhm lightweight rail). And lower only took me half an our to put together. The rifle shoots great and was an awesome buy. It's definitely an expensive hobby though. My Eotech sight cost almost as much as the rifle kit.

neon4891
neon4891 SuperDork
2/20/11 8:03 p.m.

Slightly OT, but does anyone made wood furniture for the AR?

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
2/20/11 8:20 p.m.

I've seen it for sale in SGN. Or do you mean a DIY job?

neon4891
neon4891 SuperDork
2/20/11 8:52 p.m.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

As in off the shelf. I found some from Ironwood Design, at $275 for a set. Very pretty.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
2/20/11 9:26 p.m.

I think ironwood design was the one I saw advertised in SGN. A google on wood ar15 stock came up with quite a few. I had no idea it would be that popular. Brownells has a whole selection: http://www.brownells.com/1/1/39288-ar-15-m16-wood-stock-sets-walnut-rifle-lucid.html

Laminate, walnut, etc.

pilotbraden
pilotbraden HalfDork
2/21/11 9:14 a.m.
Ignorant wrote:
Rumnhammer wrote: Here is a pic of what I'm talking about, this is a bit tongue and cheek though.

Does it cook you dinner as well?

Yes it does cook if you put your meat on the fork, then turn on the light. 15 minutes = medium rare.

Drewsifer
Drewsifer HalfDork
2/21/11 1:05 p.m.
2002maniac wrote:
Drewsifer wrote: Del-Ton Inc Complete Lower: http://www.del-ton.com/lower_receiver_s/5.htm - $180 Del-Ton Inc. 16" Rifle Kit: http://www.del-ton.com/Rifle_Kit_p/rkt104.htm - $465 If you keep it simple, you've got everything you need to make a working rifle right there.

That would actually give you a lot of extra parts as the rifle kit includes everything but the stripped lower. I built a del-ton mid length kit using a dpms lower. The upper came assembled and test fired (i had them add a yhm lightweight rail). And lower only took me half an our to put together. The rifle shoots great and was an awesome buy. It's definitely an expensive hobby though. My Eotech sight cost almost as much as the rifle kit.

Whoops, my bad. I meant to link the stripped lower. I have heard fantastic things about DTI as an affordable AR. If I didn't have my heart so set on a Bravo Company one, I'd strongly look at DTI.

yamaha
yamaha New Reader
2/21/11 1:50 p.m.

AR's are simple if you can follow directions, essentially you truely only need a multitool(available from parts suppliers), a punch, a hammer, and a headspacing check.......other than that, its not difficult.

Its neat to build them, but at the end of the day, you save approx $75 vs purchasing one already built of the same quality. I recommend Yankee Hill Machine, Rock River Arms, or Delaware Machine(Lowers Only)....stay away from dpms, stag, doublestar, model 1, olympic, etc.....and also recommend 5.45x39 or doing an ar10 build for 308

I built a rock river and ended up hating the .223/5.56 round enough to get rid of it....but I walk a different path full of FAL's and M1 carbines.....lol

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/21/11 3:44 p.m.

In reply to yamaha:

i've heard good things about both dpms and stag, what is the problem with them?

Will
Will HalfDork
2/21/11 5:59 p.m.

Stag and DPMS are both okay, but there are better choices for the money. I have a Stag lower on one of my BCM uppers, and I can't say it's a great fit with the upper. I used a DPMS lower parts kit in another build and I think the magazine catch may be out of spec.

Yamaha, how can you hate the 5.56 but enjoy the M1 carbine? The 5.56 stomps the .30 carbine round.

yamaha
yamaha New Reader
2/23/11 2:38 p.m.
Will wrote: Stag and DPMS are both okay, but there are better choices for the money. I have a Stag lower on one of my BCM uppers, and I can't say it's a great fit with the upper. I used a DPMS lower parts kit in another build and I think the magazine catch may be out of spec. Yamaha, how can you hate the 5.56 but enjoy the M1 carbine? The 5.56 stomps the .30 carbine round.

30 carbine is better under 300M than the 5.56, mainly due to bullet weight, just like 30 carbine doesn't compare to the 5.56 in for what it was designed for, 600M. The other difference is 5.56 is a rifle round, .30 carbine is technically a pistol caliber round(basically a .30cal magnum), so the powder used is different, and thus, charchteristics differ as well.

so no, I wouldn't say 5.56 stomps it........its like making the statement 7.62 nato stomps 5.56.......its what it was designed for that makes the difference. I prefer the step up from .30 carbine to the 7.62 in the FAL, if I were to build another ar platform for competitive 3 gun, I'd do a 5.7x28 conversion, which is impractical, but very different. I only stated 5.45x39 due to it being more economical to shoot.

Strizzo, YHM, DM, and RRA are all made to tighter tolerances. When I built mine, I spent the extra couple dollars making something that didn't feel loose, and I highly recommend that to anyone else. I've seen a few issues with stag's having more laxed tolerances for their lowers, and dpms is kinda doing to the AR what Universal did to the m1 carbine.

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/23/11 3:05 p.m.

In reply to yamaha:

you'll have to explain on DPMS, my DPMS upper fits and functions great on my RRA 2-stage lower. only issues i've had were due to a magazine that was damaged in shipping from midway. my upper was 450, RRA upper of the same spec is 520, by buying the complete upper and lower separate for a total of about 750, i saved a good bit over what a complete RRA rifle would be of the same spec. even if i'd bought a RRA upper, it would have been well under 900 bucks, and i think the least expensive RRA complete flattop rifle is 12-1300 bucks. i'd say thats a considerable savings over the complete rifle.

yamaha
yamaha New Reader
2/23/11 3:10 p.m.

In reply to Strizzo:

Only some have had issues with the take down pin locations being slightly larger than tolerance, the only issue on those recievers is they may work out with vibration. Not saying every one does it, just enough to make me leary of them. And RRA always wants alot of $$ for their complete rifles, I was originally going to just buy one prebuilt, but they had a 6-12 month waiting list at the time

RossD
RossD Dork
2/23/11 3:10 p.m.

I got my RRA LAR-8 .308 for $1050. (Pictured on the second page I think..)

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/23/11 3:27 p.m.

In reply to yamaha:

well i'll keep an eye on that area and see. my pivot pin is snug, but not too, and the takedown pin required a hammer to push the pin all the way in, and the same to get started taking it out.

edit: now that i think of it, when i was looking, i held a bushmaster that felt like it had been through hell and back, the upper and lower weren't tight on it, so maybe its not so much a DPMS thing, as a use/abuse thing

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/23/11 3:38 p.m.

and what did universal do to the M1 carbine?

Will
Will HalfDork
2/23/11 5:28 p.m.
yamaha wrote:
Will wrote: Yamaha, how can you hate the 5.56 but enjoy the M1 carbine? The 5.56 stomps the .30 carbine round.

30 carbine is better under 300M than the 5.56, mainly due to bullet weight, just like 30 carbine doesn't compare to the 5.56 in for what it was designed for, 600M. The other difference is 5.56 is a rifle round, .30 carbine is technically a pistol caliber round(basically a .30cal magnum), so the powder used is different, and thus, charchteristics differ as well.

so no, I wouldn't say 5.56 stomps it........its like making the statement 7.62 nato stomps 5.56.......its what it was designed for that makes the difference.

Winchester's ballistics calculator lists a 55 grain, 5.56 FMJ as having over 1300 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, and a 110 grain, .30 carbine FMJ as having 966 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. If their calculator is accurate, at no point does the .30 catch the 5.56 for energy, and obviously the 5.56 has a much flatter trajectory and way higher velocity.

But I'll admit I don't know a ton about .30 carbine loads. What load are you using?

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture HalfDork
2/23/11 6:10 p.m.

Haha, even on a car forum "THE CHART" pops up by page 2.

I just sighted in my BCM I built myself today

Also, about this easy full auto crap... You would need to machine out the notch that is forged into the lower that is made specifically to keep you from dropping an auto sear assy into the lower. Essentially, you have to have manufacuring equiptment to do it correctly. Its as easy to mod an AR for full auto as it is to build a lower from scratch... as in not at all.

Seen here over the safety selector. The FA sear capable lower is on the left.

People who practice in dis-information on here... try to remember them. They hurt both of our hobbies with the fear mongering.

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture HalfDork
2/23/11 6:19 p.m.

As for assembling your own... DO IT. Its fun, and with proper instructions (army manual is cheap) is as easy as an erector set.

Good resorce: ARFcom

mpolans
mpolans New Reader
2/24/11 7:02 a.m.

I'd echo Brownells.com as a good place to learn and buy accessories. I used a Del-ton kit and I'm very happy with it. Regarding full-auto, keep in mind that, in the U.S., BATFE has said that even mere possession of a semi-auto AR-15 and the necessary full auto specific parts (bolt carrier, selector switch trigger, disconnector, auto sear, spring, and pin) would be considered constructive possession of a machinegun. Not all frames have that little block in them, but I don't know of any that have the hole necessary for the pin that holds the auto sear.

z31maniac
z31maniac SuperDork
2/24/11 7:08 a.m.

Gentlemen, for the record, I have absolutely no interest in a full auto weapon.

I think we can let that dead, severly beaten horse lie.

I've been looking around at all the web sites, boy do I have a ton to learn!

yamaha
yamaha New Reader
2/24/11 8:03 a.m.
Strizzo wrote: and what did universal do to the M1 carbine?

the original Universal's in 63-64 were almost all gi parts, after that they started changing things from the original design. DPMS has been doing some unusual "re-engineering" to things, when those things are just fine to start with. Every YHM, DM, and RRA I've ever seen required a punch to get the take down pins out, and don't rattle.

Will, also look into what the two transfer as energy on target....and I can run soft points at 1950fps, fmj's at 2200fps, or accellerators(sabot's with 62gr .223 bullets) at over 3000fps. Its just the gun isn't made to shoot farther, it was made as a replacement to the 1911 after all....

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
2/24/11 9:09 a.m.

In reply to yamaha:

can you give me some examples of DPMS' re-engineering? other than their glacierguard handguards not working exactly right with other companies bolt on accessory rails, i haven't had any incompatibility issues with mine. even the glacierguard issue is cleared up quickly with a dremel tool.

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