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I live in MA. And have been fighting with MetLife over the value of my stolen (totaled) Integra Type R. We're about $2-3k apart on the value.
MetLife says the next step is arbitration. Anyone go through this process? Pros? Cons?
Clearly, arbitration could come it a value below what MetLife is offering.
Thoughts?
I have not yet had to be part of an arbitration on the insurance side of the fence ( One of the nice things about being a third party adjuster is often I just write a report and send it off for the insurance company employee to handle.) Even if arbitration comes in with a lower number that MetLife has it is doubtful that their previous offer will not stand. You should read your insurance agreement as arbitration may be the last step since generally both parties are bound to accept the outcome of the arbitration.
I would just go into it with as much documentation as you can. Have the production numbers. The current asking prices of Type Rs on the market. Photos of the condition of your car before it was stolen. Hell I would take in the Classic Motorsports article about its future collectability. As well as the recent online article that Tim had published about future collectible Japanese cars. Call the office if you need copies.
Good luck. Believe me for most adjusters this is almost as big a PITA as it is for you.
Greg Voth wrote:Believe me for most adjusters this is almost as big a PITA as it is for you.
Except that the adjuster is getting paid to do it - it's his job.
Ask a Public Adjustor. These folks represent you and then beat up the insurance company for the difference. My brother did it for a while, Hurrican Andrew comes to mind. He wrote a shoe box full of checks, insurance adjustors hate him.
Dan
Ours was totaled, but the process is probably similar. They responded to ads in the area from autotrader and the like - sounds obvious, but have you tried that?
MetLife supplied values for 4 98 ITRs that must have been pretty beat - they were in the $7k range.
I supplied over 40 listings from $10-22K.
As I said, we're about $2-3K apart. Not sure if it makes sense to go to arbitration. I've got a message into an independent appraiser and going to pick his brain for more information. I believe it'll cost me $300-500 for the appraiser, so that has to be factored into the equation.
I looked for Public Adjusters in MA, but I don't see any that handle cars - just property.
I would avoid arbitration like the plague it is. It almost never works to your favor. That's why companys like it, tend to stick it in contracts, and try to get you to volunteer for it. Overwhelmingly, arbitration rules against the claiment and for the company.
Just spoke to a crusty old goat who's been in the ins industry for 70 years (he might be joking).
His fee is $400. The umpire fee is split, and is probably $400/2.
He's going to do some research and get back to me. He already pointed out one area where MetLife is bending the rules on their depriciation of electronic equipment. That alone might be worth the cost of going to aribitration.
I'll keep you posted. (and I'll call the office for those recent articles.)
Keeps us up to date. This is info that could be used by a lot of us.
Sure they are getting paid. I am sure there are plenty of people on here who dread a certain part of their job. I know some adjusters love busting peoples chops over price. Think of it this way. The evil adjuster might just be the same guy who loves to haggle people down on project cars. Anyone here like to brag about the deals they score on craigslist?
I almost always paid out the near the full amount I was authorized. Unless that authority was much higher and they said try to settle for $8k but you can go up to $10k. I would initially offer what I thought was fair then give a little if needed so everyone felt like they won.
Public adjusters are just interested in home damages. They basically are lawyers for homeowners claims. They represent you then take a percentage of the settlement.
Often times it does not make sense to get a lawyer for a bodily injury claim or a public adjuster for a homeowners claim. They take more then the "extra" they earn for you.
I hate to say it but a vehicle appraisers word has never factored heavily into any of my claims. I basically get told that the car is worth X dollars settle it for that much. Sometimes there is some wiggle room but not much. A vehicle appraiser was worth about as much as an ad for someone asking way too much for ultra rare Camry. They are notoriously high and don't pull as much weight as you may expect.
So, lets say that tomorrow, some shiney happy person in a F350 with a cell phone stuck to her head nails my 88 Rolla because, like, someone was texting her and her latte was getting cold. Now, I have five large in the Rolla, not counting hundreds of hours of labor. I'm sure that if I did a CL search, I'd come up with some $500 listings. A post mortum inspection would show a Rolla that needed paint, maybe a body panel and some weird engine nobody ever saw before that has the Circle-T and "TWIN CAM 20" written on top. Is my file folder of receipts and notes going to help me out here, or do I go straight into attack mode on the Ford's insurance people?
Can I just say, like pcorad could, OK, just go buy me one just exactly like it and I'll be happy.
I never went to arbitration, but a previous poster outlined what happened to me when my motorcycle was totalled. The adjuster couldn't find a value to assign (this is in 1983), so he called around to different dealers in the area to find out what there were selling the same bike for in similar condition. He only found 1 other bike like it and assigned it the same value as the bike he found (it was at the same dealer as where I bought mine). I wound up out of pocket on my outstanding loan. And the dimwit who ran into me? He didn't even have insurance.
Note: My crusty old goat claims to know the head of Arbitration at MetLife in MA, so he may be worth his fee.
I feel like the adjuster is operating with a very short leash. I have heard that MetLife is among the worst at letting adjusters assign values they feel are "fair", and must stick within the narrow corporate guidelines.
Hess,
That is the problem with regular insurance. They see an old corolla that is in fair condition. Reciepts help but I doubt you would see 5k out of it. Also you would be claimant in this situation in which case you would be fighting an uphill battle. If you have full coverage on the car then you would be better off going through your own company then have them subrogate against the at fault driver. Even better if you have a stated value policy.
This is the exact reason I got collectors insurance on my RX-7. If I waited for the right buyer it might be worth $4-6k maybe. I have over 15k in it over the years and have a collectors policy for it through Grundy. I pay about $300 a year and it is insured for $15k. There are some requirements that both you and the car must meet but at least I know I won't be SOL if someone hits me.
pcorad wrote:Note: My crusty old goat claims to know the head of Arbitration at MetLife in MA, so he may be worth his fee.
I feel like the adjuster is operating with a very short leash. I have heard that MetLife is among the worst at letting adjusters assign values they feel are "fair", and must stick within the narrow corporate guidelines.
That is good that he may know the arbitrator. I wish you luck. I am quite familiar with the "this is what its worth, this is what you WILL settle it for"
Dr. Hess wrote:So, lets say that tomorrow, some shiney happy person in a F350 with a cell phone stuck to her head nails my 88 Rolla because, like, someone was texting her and her latte was getting cold. Now, I have five large in the Rolla, not counting hundreds of hours of labor. I'm sure that if I did a CL search, I'd come up with some $500 listings. A post mortum inspection would show a Rolla that needed paint, maybe a body panel and some weird engine nobody ever saw before that has the Circle-T and "TWIN CAM 20" written on top. Is my file folder of receipts and notes going to help me out here, or do I go straight into attack mode on the Ford's insurance people?
Can I just say, like pcorad could, OK, just go buy me one just exactly like it and I'll be happy.
Doc, in your shoes I would go to the insurance company and insure it for an "agreed value". Then when said shiny happy idiot scraps it out, you have a value to start from. The insurance company will have to agree to the value so what CL or Autotrader says will not be the deciding factor.
As he said, insurance companies don't deal with modification on a car. They are only concerned with what a similar car will sell for. Unless you can somehow prove these changes increased the value of the car (e.g. bigger engine swap on a Honda?) with examples of similar modified cars being sold for more, they won't care.
The "good" thing about such situations (well not good, but better than bad) is unless the car is burnt up or parted out, you should be able to buy the remains back at a very low price and recover your parts (since they don't care about that anyway). And no, you don't get paid for your labor.
All I carry on it is liability at like $88 or $100/year. If I bend it, I'll suck it up, but if someone else bends it, I gotta a feeling their insurance is gonna pay. Unfortunately, I'm one of those people that insurance companies don't care for much.
Anyway, I suppose that hypothetically speaking (knock on wood I don't get nailed by said bubblehead this afternoon), I would settle for four large, sign the medical liability release (at that time), buy the car back for $50, put my parts on the next one and scrap the shell. It's really amazing how fast the money piles up on these projects. I mean, this was a $400 eBay car, but after the Konis, GC coilovers, wheels, tires, 20V/C52, megasquirt (with all the addons), exhaust, radiator, there's five large in it and it still looks like a $400 car. With nice wheels. Going by rather fast. Sounding like an angry bumblebee.
That was going to be my next comment. If you are willing to sign a liability release for any bodily injuries (real or imagined) you should easily be able to get another $500 without even being treated. $500 is worth it to them so you don't come back a month later claiming all sorts or random injuries.
Greg Voth wrote:Hell I would take in the Classic Motorsports article about its future collectability. As well as the recent online article that Tim had published about future collectible Japanese cars. Call the office if you need copies.
Hi, I'm poking around online and don't see Tim's article. Do you know where it is? Was it also in the magazine? I have at least 3 months worth of back issues.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/30/tim-suddard-picks-ten-future-japanese-collecter...
Here is the online article.
The article in the magazine was a bit different and just lists future classics in general. It is the May 2009 issue. The Type R is on page 49. It lists good examples selling for 12k-17k and up to $20k plus for excellent cars. Says that 3850 came to the US and ratty ones with title issues goe for 9k.
BTW my car is pictured for the RX-7 on pg 50.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/30/tim-suddard-picks-ten-future-japanese-collecter...
Edit: Doh!, Greg beat me too it.....
I pay $123/year to insure my '62 Sprite at an agreed value of $12,500. That's practically free if I ever stuff it, and anyone who hits it hard enough to total it without killing me is going to lose everything.
Win-win!
There's a 800 mile '97 going for 28k on the ITR board.
foxtrapper wrote:I would avoid arbitration like the plague it is. It almost never works to your favor. That's why companys like it, tend to stick it in contracts, and try to get you to volunteer for it. Overwhelmingly, arbitration rules against the claiment and for the company.
I'd be willing to bet that in your policy somewhere, there's a part where IF you go to arbitration, it will be binding, and WILL be administered by a company of THIER choice. It's a pretty common "scam" for companies to hire arbitrators that really represent them. Much more common in the credit industry, but I would be far from shocked if it's also in the insurance industry.
If you were allowed to choose the arbitrator, then it may be worth all of this research. If not, I'd bet that what fox points out will happen.
E-
Dr. Hess wrote: Anyway, I suppose that hypothetically speaking (knock on wood I don't get nailed by said bubblehead this afternoon), I would settle for four large, sign the medical liability release (at that time), buy the car back for $50, put my parts on the next one and scrap the shell. It's really amazing how fast the money piles up on these projects. I mean, this was a $400 eBay car, but after the Konis, GC coilovers, wheels, tires, 20V/C52, megasquirt (with all the addons), exhaust, radiator, there's five large in it and it still looks like a $400 car. With nice wheels. Going by rather fast. Sounding like an angry bumblebee.
I just hope i get an idiot when/if that happens to me. "I assure you sir, this is a genuine Carlos Sainz Edition Celica."
On second thought... that's probably the only way i'd get my money out of it. That's sad.
It IS amazing, though, isn't it? Mine started out as a $600 CL find, and i think i've got well over $5k into it now. I haven't even touched the parts that make it move yet. Arg.
