Brake Job in the Rust Belt

Pictures now (in chronological order), words later....

And I have had people tell me I am going to kill myself for putting anti seize in the hub before putting the new disk on.

Does one of those shots show an almost full pad and one on metal?  Wouldn't that indicate that the calipers are likely pretty suspect? 

I am glad I dont live in the rust belt. I would probably never work on my own cars. 

You need you an air hammer to shock the rotor.

They stick largely because the inside of the bell rusts to lock it onto the hub.  Much beating is required to spall the rust off so the rotor can come free.

aircooled said:

Does one of those shots show an almost full pad and one on metal?  Wouldn't that indicate that the calipers are likely pretty suspect? 

That's kinda normal with ATE calipers, the slides are exposed to the elements and they seize up.

95% of the reason I did not want a base model S60.  Hate those calipers.

Knurled. said:

You need you an air hammer to shock the rotor.

 

They stick largely because the inside of the bell rusts to lock it onto the hub.  Much beating is required to spall the rust off so the rotor can come free.

Where do you put the air hammer? Where the disc meets the hub? 

I have an air hammer and a rear disc that does not want to come even after hammering it for a long time. 

Why it sucks to be a mechanic in the rust-belt. It's NOT just brakes, its EVERYTHING.

Pete

Slippery said:

Knurled. said:

You need you an air hammer to shock the rotor.

 

They stick largely because the inside of the bell rusts to lock it onto the hub.  Much beating is required to spall the rust off so the rotor can come free.

Where do you put the air hammer? Where the disc meets the hub? 

I have an air hammer and a rear disc that does not want to come even after hammering it for a long time. 

Flat-beater bit, go around and around the hub face until you hear the change in tone as the rotor starts to loosen up.  Then attack with hammers.

Don't be gentle with the hammers, either.  Nothing happens if you hammer lightly except boredom.  No tap-tap-tap BS.  Hit the SOB like you're trying to knock it out of the park.  Big swings, aim for a point six inches beyond what you're hitting, meaning don't just use the momentum of the hammer but also use your muscles.  If the hammer bounces off after it hits, you are doing it wrong.  Speaking of muscles, use your back and shoulders.  It's a full body workout and the rotor is not your friend.

Okay, some words as time dictates.

The car is my wife's 2010 Mazda5.  I rarely ever drive it anymore.  Detailedin this thread her car was hit while parked in May.  At that time she told me the brakes have been vibrating.  I test drive and sure enough they are pulsating, but maybe the Mazda will get totaled so I'm not rushing to repair the brakes.  We have a fleet of cars so she then drives The Sumo Wrestler, Montero full time.  The Mazda comes back from the body shop but needs brake work.  The latest word from my wife, now that it is mid-summer is that the AC in the Montero is struggling on the hottest days.  This motivates me to do the brakes of the Mazda (with perfect working AC.)

As I look through the alloys of the Mazda the pads look strong/thick.  The driving feeling is of warped rotor.  i decide that before I dig in, I'll take the Mazda out the "the corn field roads" and womp on the brakes.  Maybe they just need some glazing warn off.  While out doing these heavy stops, not getting better, getting worse.  On the last super heavy, super hot stop from 45 to 15 the sound goes to scrapping metal with brakes off.  This picture taken at the side of the road:

One vented rotor has now become two separate non-vented rotors.  The inner portion has broken off the hub.  Any movement makes the two portions grind against each other.  At this point I am 2 miles from my MIL's house and 4 miles from mine.  I drive the Mazda a 10 mph or less to my MIL's.  She takes me home.  Two days later I have the parts I need.  I'll just do the brake job in her driveway.  

At least the lug nuts came off

Aaron_King said:

And I have had people tell me I am going to kill myself for putting anti seize in the hub before putting the new disk on.

Been doing it for years.  Internet myth and legend propagated by people that probably have never done a brake job.  

Armed with my trusty dead-blow BFH, I make big hits at the remaining portion of the outer rotor.  All I achieve with big hits is breaking the outer rotor off the hub too.

 This then necessitates a trip to Advance Auto for the "free tool rental" of a gear puller.

Even with the help of a gear puller, some rotor still does not want to just pull off clean

Yes, the inner pad is straight to metal.  It probably wasn't quite that bad but the heavy womps at the end surely finished it off.  

My anti-seize of choice is white and if you zoom in you will see it oozing out around the hub and rotor.  I slathered it liberally on the entire hub face too.  

In reply to John Welsh :

As a fellow ohioan, I just want to let you know I'm laughing hysterically right now .

I. Drove an escort for a few months in college.  It was horrible.  We ripped a chunk out of the pass front rotor during a weekend brake job.  We couldn't get the rotor off and I had nothing else to drive so we threw pads on that side and put it back together.  It braked "fine" at higher speeds but anything under 10 it would lock up.

I'd pull up next to someone at a light and lock the tire for the last 10 feet.  I tried to keep a straight face and just keep looking forward like nothing happened.  I was in Elyria so it wasn't that out of place.

I have used the biggest ball pean hammer I have on stuck ones in the past and it seemed to get them free much better than other BFH's I have.  The other way I use is to just score them with a thin cutting wheel on my grinder and one good hit will crack them in half.  The only down side is I have always worried about damaging the hubs if you get to crazy.  

In reply to Knurled. :

Thanks for the explanation. I will give it a shot. 

And sorry for derrailing the thread. 

Plastic dead blow hammers really don't shock the metal like metal hammers.  If you were hitting the back side of the rotor then the dead blow is ok but I have always prefered a 3lb sledge with a 18-24" handel.  I got a decent one at Harbor Freight a while back that has a chisel end and a flat end.  It is great for this kind of thing.  

dean1484 said:

Aaron_King said:

And I have had people tell me I am going to kill myself for putting anti seize in the hub before putting the new disk on.

Been doing it for years.  Internet myth and legend propagated by people that probably have never done a brake job.  

It's also myth that it does anything but create a huge mess.  The hub is not the part that gets the deathgrip.

This one to be exact.

Knurled. said:

dean1484 said:

Aaron_King said:

And I have had people tell me I am going to kill myself for putting anti seize in the hub before putting the new disk on.

Been doing it for years.  Internet myth and legend propagated by people that probably have never done a brake job.  

It's also myth that it does anything but create a huge mess.  The hub is not the part that gets the deathgrip.

I have kept some of my cars for years in the rust belt and putting the grey antisease on the surfaces between the rotor and the hub helps alot getting them off later.    I have also taken to painting the inside of the rotor with the highest temp paint I can find (usually the 1200 deg grill paint)  this works really well at keeping the rust a bay on new rotors.

How does this create a mess?  I can see application error.  You just need to cover the surfaces with a very thin coat.  It is between the hub and the disk so it can not go anywhere.  And even if it does make things a little bit messy I will take that as opposed to what the OP went through.  

I think the above ment to say on the hub not in the hub.  Anti sease in a hub would be a very bad thing.  It is not a pressure rated grease.

On a side not I have wanted to try the lower end grease used in mercury outboards on the back of the rotors.  The stuff will not wash away with water I just don't know if it would melt due to the heat.  

NOHOME said:

Why it sucks to be a mechanic in the rust-belt. It's NOT just brakes, its EVERYTHING.

 

Pete

EVERYTHING + the RUST

I am convinced that car makers have a hand in municipalities decision to use salt.

How many cars a year are destroyed because of salt use? What does that carbon footprint look like? The costs all trickel down, borne by the car owner, but the carbon is global.

dean1484 said:

Knurled. said:

dean1484 said:

Aaron_King said:

And I have had people tell me I am going to kill myself for putting anti seize in the hub before putting the new disk on.

Been doing it for years.  Internet myth and legend propagated by people that probably have never done a brake job.  

It's also myth that it does anything but create a huge mess.  The hub is not the part that gets the deathgrip.

I have kept some of my cars for years in the rust belt and putting the grey antisease on the surfaces between the rotor and the hub helps alot getting them off later.    I have also taken to painting the inside of the rotor with the highest temp paint I can find (usually the 1200 deg grill paint)  this works really well at keeping the rust a bay on new rotors.

 

How does this create a mess?  I can see application error.  You just need to cover the surfaces with a very thin coat.  It is between the hub and the disk so it can not go anywhere.  And even if it does make things a little bit messy I will take that as opposed to what the OP went through.  

I think the above ment to say on the hub not in the hub.  Anti sease in a hub would be a very bad thing.  It is not a pressure rated grease.

Yes, on not in.  Wire bruch everything, antisease on the hub and the lip that keeps the disk and wheel centered,  I have been doing that for 20 plus years and have never had to use a hammer, they come right off.

Would you believe that while writing this from my desk I get a call from my wife.  She is out with the Mazda.  She is at her mom's (3 miles away.)  She reports that the driver's front wheel is making sounds while driving (not so much while braking) and that the steering wheel vibrates while driving.  

I just went and dropped her off the Prius and drove home the Mazda.  I suspect the caliper is sticking.  I always thought that but did not have a caliper and wanted the car out of my MIL's driveway where I did all this brake work.  

Later (not today) I'll dig back into the Mazda.   

Now, back to our story...

The temps have been 85-ish here during the day with high humidity (remember the park about the Montero AC not keeping up.)  I started this project intentionally after dinner Monday with the intention of getting the coolest part of the day and the car is parked in shade.  It was about 8:30pm when I finished side one.  It probably wont get dark for another hour and the "hard side" is done but I decided to tackle the job the next morning.

Oh, you thought side one was hard?!?!?!

Hits with the hammer gave no yield so I was quickly to the gear puller.

This gave no real help other than to break off the outer portion of the rotor. With a combination of the BFH and the puller I managed to get the rotor off in pieces. 

Here is that mangled mess with the new brakes installed.  In general, this side took longer than the other side.  I really needed a second set of hands for getting the puller tightened (and not falling off) the rotor.  The pads on this side looked good with proper wear.