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drainoil
drainoil HalfDork
10/27/16 8:08 p.m.

Sorry for the long post but its necessary to explain it all. Its a 2013 C-Max we bought new. Factory warranty is expired due to having over 36,000 miles. One day last week we had the front passenger window rolled down, then went to put it up and it stopped halfway and would not go any further. The button worked to lower the window all the way several times, but each time would still stop at the half way point. No strange noises or clicks. I did a visual into the narrow window channel to look for any visible obstruction. I found none. I scoured the owners manual to try to troubleshoot this but found nothing. Next I checked the fuse for this window and that checked out good. Knowing we bought an extended warranty at the time of initial vehicle purchase, I was somewhat hopeful any and all repairs to fix this basic function of the car, would be covered minus our $100 deductable.

Last Saturday I dropped the car off at our local Ford dealer, which is the same dealer we bought the car new from (and had several recalls taken care of here to). After about 3.5 hours of waiting, I was told the window had come off its track somehow but would need further checking so they asked if I could bring it back Monday and leave it with them. Service man said they lifted the window so it was closed completely now. I asked about the cost and mentioned our extended warranty. I was told the dealer diagnostic fee is $195 to diagnose a given problem. But since I had the extended warranty, that likely would cover half that cost as my deductable is $100. I agreed to come back Monday. On Monday I dropped the C-Max off and I was offered a loaner car through Enterprise which I took as I needed a vehicle. Later in the day Monday I called Service and spoke to a Service "helper". He said he looked up the notes in the computer which said a weld was broken, door is not fixable, and the entire door would need to be replaced. He said someone would call me soon with an update. Yesterday (Weds) I called Service around 2pm. Without detailing each call attempt and being put on hold and/or hung up on, about 50 minutes (yes I timed it) later I finally spoke with a real live voice in Service. I was told they were putting a new regulator in when they discovered a broken weld between the window guide and the door frame. They were checking with auto body people and would get back to me.

Today I received a call from Service man. I was told the window guide needed to be re-welded but since the factory warranty was expired, and my extended warranty coverage would also not cover this, that I would be responsible to pay to have this fixed. I was quoted "around $600" if the dealer fixed the weld, and a body shop the dealer uses may be able to do it for "around $500". I asked that if the factory warranty was still in effect, would it cover this broken weld? Service man said yes. I asked if thats the case why the extended warranty company would not cover this. He said he called them and was told that "its not a mechanical issue" therefor its not covered. I asked Service man who in particular he spoke with at the warranty company. He said he did not get a name, he "figured it was some adjustor". I asked if he had a tracking or reference number for this incident/claim attempt with the extended warranty company that I could reference if I called them. He said no they just use the last 6 of the VIN.

Needless to say I was not happy. Service man seems pretty indifferent to the situation. I can see if I clearly did something to cause the window to not roll all the way up, but a broken weld inside the door? I have not heard of such a thing, especially on a vehicle thats 3 years old (and been babied by a caring owner). We have been the only owner of this car which has never been in a crash of any type and at no time has it ever sustained a severe jolt, bump or hit. Could a factory weld be so brittle and fragile that it could break as easy as this one has? Am I wrong in thinking Ford should make good on this and repair it without cost to me? If there is a good reason that I'm not seeing, my eyes and ears are open.

Reading through the fine print on the extended warranty (Warranty Solutions) does not show this item listed under contract/warranty exclusions.

We also just received a message from Enterprise Rental that our loaner car is due back tomm morning at 9am as Ford will no longer pay for it after that time.

Oh and I guess I'm not the only C-Max owner with this issue. Although the link doesn't specify who paid for the fix in this case.

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5217-window-not-rolling-up/

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/27/16 8:24 p.m.

The extended warranties I have had only covered mechanicals. Engine, transmission, drive, suspension and primary electrical. All secondary electrical and body were not covered.

The warranty probably isn't from Ford. It will be through a third party and they will do everything they can to not cover anything.

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/27/16 8:31 p.m.

In reply to iadr:

I wouldn't agree with that. I've bought two. One was a wash, it rebuilt the front end in my Econoline at no cost to me. The other replaced the engine in a Dodge Caravan. Over all, I'm well in the black buying them.

It will be a battle to get them to pay for the repairs, even if they are covered by the policy. They do not like to be separated from their money.

drainoil
drainoil HalfDork
10/27/16 8:38 p.m.

Feeling sorry for myself? Is that a constructive response? But just so you know, no I'm not.

Although many extended warranties are a waste, I had one through basically the same company years ago that paid out considerably more on two big ticket repairs than the initial cost of the warranty itself.

Anyhow, a broken weld on a relatively new vehicle. I should have expected this.

Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/27/16 8:42 p.m.
iadr wrote: Go to a cheap body shop, or any welding and fabrication shop, and get it welded for $20-45, and reassemble the door yourself.

Be careful welding around the glass. I tried it once and the sparks pitted the glass.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/27/16 8:48 p.m.

I can't believe in this day and age of Hyundai that any manufacturer only offers a 36,000 mile warrenty

moparman76_69
moparman76_69 UltraDork
10/27/16 9:33 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: I can't believe in this day and age of Hyundai that any manufacturer only offers a 36,000 mile warrenty

Yeah well that is still the standard with most american cars at least.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
10/27/16 9:48 p.m.

I'd love to see this break that will somehow run $600 to weld back up, does that include the purchase of the welder?

Woody wrote:
iadr wrote: Go to a cheap body shop, or any welding and fabrication shop, and get it welded for $20-45, and reassemble the door yourself.
Be careful welding around the glass. I tried it once and the sparks pitted the glass.

Same goes for grinding.

Robbie
Robbie GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/27/16 10:00 p.m.

Is it for sure a weld? I'd bet an untrained eye could see painted seam sealer or other adhesive and see a "weld".

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
10/27/16 10:02 p.m.

Take it to the top...

NHTSA vehicle safety hotline

That weld is initially done by robot at the factory. One broken weld could be indicative of a flawed building process that could result in many vehicles on the road with same potential break.

If you have no ability to lower the window then you have no secondary exit from the car. Seems unsafe.

See if NHTSA has any interest.

I envision some humor when NHTSA contacts your dealer only to find some shenanigans on the dealers part.

In actuality, your complaint will not likely generate an immediate result but it still may be wise to report so as to establish a pattern that could lead to a recall.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy PowerDork
10/27/16 11:41 p.m.

I'd bet that its not a unique problem. Won't do you a bit of good, but its really unusual for a failure like that to not be a pattern. Have you ever closed the drivers door on an Astro van? The rattle you heard is from the bottom bracket on the rear rail. I've never seen one intact.

Most of the repair cost will probably be in the refinishing of the door. If its hidden, and you don't care, hose it down with a rattle can after its welded and screw it all back together. Or, drill the spot out, install a suitable bolt and nut.

Jumper K. Balls
Jumper K. Balls UberDork
10/27/16 11:45 p.m.

In reply to BrokenYugo:

If it is anywhere around exterior paint it will require a respray and clear blend. That is expensive

jamscal
jamscal Dork
10/28/16 5:26 a.m.

Depending on accessibility and clearance, drill out spot weld and bolt or rivet together.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
10/28/16 7:00 a.m.

Don't deal with the dealers. Call the corporate customer care line and raise hell.

+1-800-392-3673

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
10/28/16 7:22 a.m.

I'm not reading the whole message- I read- broken Ford, past warrantee time, conflict, angry customer.

And I'm sitting here at home wishing I had a card from work that you can contact for a corporate hot line. Try the one that FbC just posted- but I can't confirm it's correct.

We all got this number a good decade ago to suggest that not happy customers just like you contact.

If you can wait until Monday, I'll check the number.

(although, I would suggest being nice and rational, pointing out that failures like this should just not happen)

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
10/28/16 7:23 a.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: Don't deal with the dealers. Call the corporate customer care line and raise hell. +1-800-392-3673

NHTSA will only take an interest if its an issue that relates to safety. If the weld was somehow related to the impact beam in the door though...

Dealers suck, talk to the manufacturer, they arent the same.

MDJeepGuy
MDJeepGuy New Reader
10/28/16 7:53 a.m.

If it's not listed on the excluded components, call the warranty company and make them explain why it's not covered. Ask where it says that on your contract. If they can't find it, tell them to approve the repair.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
10/28/16 9:04 a.m.
alfadriver wrote: I'm not reading the whole message- I read- broken Ford, past warrantee time, conflict, angry customer. And I'm sitting here at home wishing I had a card from work that you can contact for a corporate hot line. Try the one that FbC just posted- but I can't confirm it's correct. We all got this number a good decade ago to suggest that not happy customers just like you contact. If you can wait until Monday, I'll check the number. (although, I would suggest being nice and rational, pointing out that failures like this should just not happen)

I just googled it. It shows on http://www.ford.com/help/contact/

Use social media, chat with them. They will react.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad UberDork
10/28/16 9:13 a.m.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote:
alfadriver wrote: I'm not reading the whole message- I read- broken Ford, past warrantee time, conflict, angry customer. And I'm sitting here at home wishing I had a card from work that you can contact for a corporate hot line. Try the one that FbC just posted- but I can't confirm it's correct. We all got this number a good decade ago to suggest that not happy customers just like you contact. If you can wait until Monday, I'll check the number. (although, I would suggest being nice and rational, pointing out that failures like this should just not happen)
I just googled it. It shows on http://www.ford.com/help/contact/ #Use social media, chat with them. They will react.

Hasn't worked with VW. berkeley VW BTW.

slefain
slefain PowerDork
10/28/16 9:36 a.m.

Apparently this is not an isolated incident:

http://fordcmaxhybridforum.com/topic/5217-window-not-rolling-up/

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 MegaDork
10/28/16 10:06 a.m.

I think your C-Max has a 5 year warranty for Rust. Can you pinpoint this to rust having caused the weld to fail. I do see that you are in MN so rust this quickly is very possible.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
10/28/16 11:20 a.m.

There is a section in your owners manual title " Customer Assistance" that gives a lot of info.

If this is a known problem there may be a TSB on it.

A good service MANAGER can contact a field service engineer who connects directly with Ford

.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver PowerDork
10/28/16 11:33 a.m.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM507078/SB-10056234-4603.pdf

Not much related within TSB-s This is the closest thing I can find, but it looks electrical in nature.

drainoil
drainoil HalfDork
10/28/16 12:17 p.m.

Met with the Service Manager himself today. After explaining the situation, and without me asking, he said he would contact Ford Corporate to see what they can do. He seemed concerned but at the same time trying to protect his own (dealer) interests ie $$$ which I understand. I asked to see the door as it was still apart when I arrived at the dealer this morning.

Service man showed me, at my request, what and where exactly the broken weld was located. He showed me and with a small flashlight, showed the loose window guide. I could not see the broken weld itself but he said its behind the guide and that for sure is what the issue is. Looking at the overall pic of the door, the problem area is in the upper left portion of the door.

As for this being rust related. I don't know about that at this point. I tried posting the pics I took of the door. I hope you are able to see them.

Service manager said I could expect to hear back from him sometime next week. As I shook his hand while finishing up, I asked him if he personally would call me and let me know. He told me he would. After being at the dealer for about 2 hours, the door was back together and I drove off.

BrokenYugo
BrokenYugo UltimaDork
10/28/16 2:34 p.m.

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