Grassroots Motorsports

Register Log in to GRM
- Community

Birthdays
- Mental
Recently on the Classic Motorsports forums

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Car-selling advice

1 2

Jan. 19, 2009 9:51 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

I'm moving to New York in a few months and I need to part ways with the Z3. I've never sold a car that I owed money on before, so I am kind-of looking for some pointers. For example: am I going to need to pay off the car before the buyer takes possession of it?

The KBB value for a 2000 BMW Z3 roadster with 108,000 miles on it is stupid-low: less than $6,000. It's a manual with the base 2.3 (2.5 liter) I-6 engine. That's a tad more than I owe on it, so I don't care - I just want the payment gone. Is this price correct? The car is in Fair shape as the front bumper needs to be painted because the paint the dealer sprayed on before I bought it bubbled up and chipped off.

Should I paint the bumper before I sell it? Should I offer the 16" Koesi K-1 wheels with snow tires with the car for a bit more (how much more)? Do you guys recommend Craigslisting it, e-Baying it, or both? (Anyone here want it? )

Discuss. Thanks for the help in advance!
Jan. 19, 2009 10:00 a.m. Strizzo Dork

definitely craigslist it, we sold my g/f's maxima via craigslist for 500 more than she wanted to get for it. also, get the value from edmunds, kbb, and NADA, and average them. this will give you a more real-world idea of what the car is worth. when i was trading my rsx, kbb gave a trade-in value of 14,500 which the dealers wouldn't go anywhere near. i'd have the front bumper repainted (but not really expensively) because paint is probably the #1 thing that drops peoples perception of value in a car.
Jan. 19, 2009 10:56 a.m. P71 HalfDork

+1 with everything Strizzo said.
Jan. 19, 2009 11:04 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

Cool. Sounds like a plan. Thanks!
Jan. 19, 2009 11:17 a.m. billy3esq Dork

One addendum I'd make to Strizzo's advice is throw out the Edmunds value if it's more than 20% below the average of the other two. In my experience they frequently have unrealistically low numbers for cars about 10 yrs and older.

Interestingly, NADA tends to run a little high (in my unscientific observation).

Also check the AutoTrader or similar publications around you for a sanity check on your asking price.
Jan. 19, 2009 12:02 p.m. Strizzo Dork

billy3esq wrote:

One addendum I'd make to Strizzo's advice is throw out the Edmunds value if it's more than 20% below the average of the other two. In my experience they frequently have unrealistically low numbers for cars about 10 yrs and older.

Interestingly, NADA tends to run a little high (in my unscientific observation).

Also check the AutoTrader or similar publications around you for a sanity check on your asking price.

in my case, the edmunds number was the closest to the actual amount i was offered for trade, although it was still higher. for me, kbb was highest, edmunds lowest, and nada was in the middle
Jan. 19, 2009 1:24 p.m. billy3esq Dork

I can't comment on Edmunds' trade-in values, but I've consistently seen problems with their private party values on older cars. I suspect the problem is that they rely at least in part on title transfer data and people are known to lie about that (which is why Texas went to presumptive value taxation a few years ago).

In fairness, my comment probably should have been to throw out any number that's more than 20% off the average of the other two in either direction. I've just noticed the problem most acutely with Edmunds' private party values.
Jan. 19, 2009 1:33 p.m. Wally UltraDork

Get the bumper done. It should take a day and most shops are happy to get a quick cash job. Offer the snow tires two unless you are going to use them on your next car of want some different end tables. Just because I'm nosey, why do you have to sell the Z3 to come to New York? They are among the few things that are still allowed here.
Jan. 19, 2009 1:54 p.m. confuZion3 Dork

Car payments suck. Especially with $88,000 in student loan debt looming over me. Besides, I'm going to keep my Miata. I have a garage to put it in and an assigned spot in it. It's included with the apartment (the garage, not the Miata).

And why keep the Miata and not the Z (other than the payments)? Simply put, I like the Miata more for some reason.
Jan. 19, 2009 3:40 p.m. jrw1621 Reader

You mention that you still owe on it...

Call the lender and ask for the "pay-off price." This is the exact amount that you still have to pay. It should be slightly lower than the sum of your remaining payments since some interest will not be charged if you pay it off early.

Now that you have the "pay-off price" this is the amount that will need to be paid to the lender the day the new owner takes the car. If you owe $5k and sell it for $6k then you made $1k. If it works out to be the opposite and you owe $6K but sell it for $5k then you need to come up with the $1k IMMEDIATELY or the new guy will not get the title.
Jan. 19, 2009 4:26 p.m. ManofFewWords Reader

With what I consider to be a "niche" car like yours, I would consider trying to sell it on BMW boards as well. I don't think there are alot of people cruising craigslist looking for a Z3.
Jan. 19, 2009 4:30 p.m. PeterAK Dork

Sell your K1's to me! Where are you?
Jan. 19, 2009 5:27 p.m. bludroptop Dork

I did a quick 300 mile radius search for Z-3....

What color is it?
Jan. 20, 2009 8:10 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

I can't sell the K1s yet. They are on the car holding my snow tires. But I'm in southern central PA (York, PA).

It's Sienna Red - it's like coppery metalic red.
Jan. 20, 2009 2:53 p.m. WilD Reader

Should he try to pay it off and get a clear title before he tries to sell? I've never bought a car someone owes money on, but would probably reject buying out of hand as a buyer not wanting to deal with the hassel.
Jan. 20, 2009 5:07 p.m. jrw1621 Reader

If you ever bought a car from a dealer you were likely buying a car from someone who still owed money on the car. Dealerships do not typically "own" cars that they buy at auction. The cars are purchased at auction on the dealer's line of credit which is often reffered to as "the floor plan" This puts the car on the dealers floor without the dealer having shelled out all the money.

In the private world it is typically easiest to do it this way. If the loan on the car is with a local bank, head to a branch of that bank, sit in the office of the branch manager and he/she will typically complete the transaction for you. If the loan is not local, head to the buyers bank and complete the sale there.
Jan. 20, 2009 5:22 p.m. dj06482 New Reader

WilD wrote:

Should he try to pay it off and get a clear title before he tries to sell? I've never bought a car someone owes money on, but would probably reject buying out of hand as a buyer not wanting to deal with the hassel.

I agree, considering the price range you're dealing in, you're probably better off paying off the loan and having the title in hand. As a seller, your goal is to make the transaction as quick and trouble-free as possible. The longer the transaction takes, the less likely the buyer is to actually go through with the sale.

DJ
Jan. 21, 2009 8:05 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

I owe a few thousand dollars on the car. Paying it off now is not an option. A friend of mine bought a car from a guy who owed money on it. It seemed like a pretty smooth transaction to me.
Jan. 21, 2009 8:20 a.m. dj06482 New Reader

I think the biggest factor in buying a car where a bank holds the title is if said bank is local or not. If the bank is local, it's much less of an issue.
Jan. 21, 2009 10:31 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

It's financed through BMW financial. I'll find out if another bank has the loan.
Jan. 21, 2009 10:42 a.m. alex Reader

When you sell the car, the buyer takes the car, and a bill of sale. You take the money, pay your bank, they send you the title. You sign the title and send it to the buyer.

That's how we do it for consignment motorcycles with liens. Nothing to it.
Jan. 21, 2009 11:05 a.m. confuZion3 Dork

Where do I get a bill of sale? I think this is how my friend did it. It's proof for the new owner so that I don't rip him off by calling the police and saying it's stolen after collecting the money, right?
Jan. 21, 2009 11:08 a.m. dj06482 New Reader

alex wrote:

When you sell the car, the buyer takes the car, and a bill of sale. You take the money, pay your bank, they send you the title. You sign the title and send it to the buyer.

That's how we do it for consignment motorcycles with liens. Nothing to it.

My personal experience has been that after paying off a car, it takes at least 3-4 weeks for the bank to update the DMV and the DMV to issue me the title for the car. As a buyer, unless the seller was someone I personally knew, I would not want to be in limbo for that long after paying the money for the car up front, even if the car was in my possession.

Personally, if I'm looking to buy a car and the seller doesn't have the title in hand, that's a negative. Not having the title will also discourage non-local buyers from considering the car. At least in my state (CT), I can't register the car without a title. No registration = no plates. No plates = no driving the car. So, the car would have to be trailered to my house, and would sit there until the seller received the title and mailed it to me.

At this point, I also have a potential hassle of if the seller flakes and refuses to send the title. IMHO, just too many variables in that equation. As a buyer, I'm looking for a quick and easy transaction. Just my $0.02...
Jan. 21, 2009 5:09 p.m. Tommy Suddard

I like K1s...
Jan. 21, 2009 5:10 p.m. jrw1621 Reader

What happens in CT if you buy a used car from a dealer? Most dealers will not hand you the title when you buy it because they do not have the title, the dealerships bank has the title.

Here in Ohio we have temporary plates that are good for 30 day which is about the time needed to get the right title into the right hands.

1 2

You'll need to log in to post.