Career "learn me" collision adjusting or estimating: Off-topic discussion forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

Subscribe get a full year for only $23.95 Sample Free Test Drive—no strings attached

Nov. 3, 2011 4:05 p.m. conesare2seconds Reader

So I'm strongly considering enrolling in technical college (state, not private) in suppport of a career change. I'm interested in working for a collision shop as an estimator or as an insurance adjustor. Anyone have experience with this? What do I need to know?

For a while, P&C adjusting became very free-lance as insurance companies cut their captive adjusters loose and hired contractors. Increasingly, I see the insurance co's accepting estimates from the shop's estimator instead of third-party. Is that a mistaken impression?

As a bonus to learning estimating, I'd like to learn collision repair and paint. I'm in my early 40s and a career hammering panels is probably not in the cards, but I would like to learn it for the sake of my car hobby. Paint and prep is VERY appealing to me, moreso even than collision repair. Can I make a living as an estimator or adjuster? My income isn't huge and I'm willing to step back for a time with a creeer change, just not forever.
Nov. 3, 2011 4:27 p.m. Conquest351 HalfDork

I spent the money to get my Adjuster License and spent a year looking for work. My friend does P&C adjusting and makes a killing, but I can't get hired to save my life. There are lots of Online classes. 360training.com is the one I used and it's 50 state compatible from what I recall. I'd advise having a job lined up and then getting the license. Would hate for you to waste the money like I did.
Nov. 4, 2011 10:54 a.m. BMD None

Hello, I stumbled across this subject and just thought I would jump in. I am currently a Collision Estimator and have been in the industry over 30 years. This Industry is a tough one at best, once upon a time you could make a decent living estimating or / appraising but those days are all but gone.

I am at work right now so I am limited on time but I will try to get on later to give a little more info.
Nov. 4, 2011 1:30 p.m. gamby SuperDork

Conquest351 wrote:

I spent the money to get my Adjuster License and spent a year looking for work.

...and this is the #1 reason I haven't done anything with racking up bills toward additional schooling. I already have one degree that did nothing for me.
Nov. 4, 2011 2:36 p.m. Conquest351 HalfDork

I have over $3,000 worth of licenses sitting in my wallet right this second doing absolutely nothing but collecting lint. Real Estate, Insurance Adjuster, and TABC Server licenses. Collectively, they've earned me MAYBE $18k in 4 years. Not worth the investment if I could go back and tell myself. But the real estate work experience was fun...
Nov. 4, 2011 2:40 p.m. GrantMLS Reader

I too am a licenesced auto adjuster - have never adjusted a car in my life.. not to easy togeta good paying gig..I am also a CAT adjuster and made some really good money - but the work sucks - 3-6 monthes out of ayear working 7 days a week 15 hour days.. TONS AND TONS of paperwork..
Nov. 5, 2011 7:04 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

Not sure if I'm "lucky" or not...been doing auto damage adjusting for 17 years, got my license via a 3 week course paid for by the body shop I worked for way back when. I'm surprised guys are saying there's no money in it; that's only true if you work as an independent (BTDT, couldn't afford the T-shirt). Staff appraising for most major players in the Evil Empire in my area will get you in the $40's pretty easily. Big stealership shops can pay that and more depending on the incentive programs. It is not, however, an 'easy' job. Doing car estimates is the easy/fun part. Dealing with the customers (getting constantly dumber and more meddlesome) and corporate bureaucracy (think TPS reports) is making me almost wish I didn't get paid as well as I do, because it would make quitting this gig much easier. Back in the 70s and 80s it was a great job, but like everything else they are dumping more and more work on fewer people along with unattainable service goals.

I see far more openings in property damage (buildings, yards, etc) and worker's comp/bodily injury claims than auto damage. Not saying those are better career paths, but the job openings are far more frequent if you're looking for a career that you can take more places.
Nov. 6, 2011 9:39 p.m. conesare2seconds Reader

Hmm, sounds like I should keep thinking of other options.
Nov. 7, 2011 7:03 a.m. Greg Voth HalfDork

I am a multi-line adjuster (casualty & property) for a large third party claims administrator. I handle both liability/casualty claims which consist of auto and truck accidents, slip and fall, general liability as well as residential and commercial property damage.

Not too long ago we had staff auto appraisers. During the year or so I was away from the company while working for GRM they were almost all let go and we started using independents. I preferred the staff appraisers since I knew I could call one of the guys and get something done quick. With the independents I have had some great results and some very frustrating ones.

If you do look into the property claims side expect property your workload with vary greatly depending on the weather. You get the homeowners who don't understand how repairs work nor what their policies cover. You also get contractors who's bills are way out of line and public adjusters (basically the ambulance chasers or property damage).

In casualty you get a lot of people who are "injured" and some people who are really injured. Its hard to hear people who are legitimately and uninsured hurt feel the pressure of mounting medical bills and the inability to work. Its hard to keep a straight face when an attorney is claiming major injuries for a 3mph bump. It is not a bad job just frustrating dealing with people sometimes. You should be ready for someone to always be mad at you.

There is TONS of paperwork and many late nights trying to stay caught up. My pay is decent and we have a bonus program based on production that is tied into quality scoring. Everything is watched. Every file is monitored from the intake, to the first contact, first report etc.

Good luck...
Nov. 7, 2011 7:21 a.m. Klayfish HalfDork

I'm in a somewhat similar career as Greg. I've been in the insurance business since '97. Started as a "multi-line" auto adjuster. I did everything from appraising the car to adjusting the claim (determining liability, etc...), to settling injury claims. Handled everything from a simple broken windshield to a fatality claim. Then spent several years as an auto insurance fraud investigator, which was really cool. Spent the past 7 years with a commercial auto and general liability carrier, which means we only insure companies not private individuals. Spent 6 of those years as a claims manager. Had a staff of between 6-12 adjusters. I'm now in a consultants role, specializing in material damage.

To the OP, keep your eyes open on Monster or the other job sites. There are some insurance companies who will hire adjusters with no prior experience. They have their own physical damage estimating classes. You won't learn how to actually do frame repairs on your own, but you'll learn how to be a staff appraiser. Yes, a lot of companies no longer have staff appraisers, my current company included. They rely a lot on independents and third party vendors. You can make a good career out of insurance work. Yes, workload is high, but pay is good, benefits are good, and it's not the "big bad" insurance conspiracy a lot of people seem to think.

Most independents want to hire people with some kind of prior experience. A lot of body shops are the same way, but you can look around. Check with the DOI to see if AR requires you to have a license to be an appraiser. If so, find a school that can get you trained to pass that test.

Good luck!
Nov. 7, 2011 9:26 a.m. gamby SuperDork

ddavidv wrote:

Dealing with the customers (getting constantly dumber and more meddlesome)

I noticed this in my years of retail. Society is REALLY degrading in that sense. I don't know how most of these people function on a daily basis. I don't get it...
Nov. 7, 2011 9:43 a.m. Duke SuperDork

gamby wrote:

ddavidv wrote:

Dealing with the customers (getting constantly dumber and more meddlesome)

I noticed this in my years of retail. Society is REALLY degrading in that sense. I don't know how most of these people function on a daily basis. I don't get it...

Laws and regulations are constantly being made that allow people like this to function, because they are continually protected from their own idiocy and ignorance. This not only allows them to function, it allows them to remain in the gene pool.
Nov. 7, 2011 10:25 a.m. Conquest351 HalfDork

Duke wrote:

gamby wrote:

ddavidv wrote:

Dealing with the customers (getting constantly dumber and more meddlesome)

I noticed this in my years of retail. Society is REALLY degrading in that sense. I don't know how most of these people function on a daily basis. I don't get it...

Laws and regulations are constantly being made that allow people like this to function, because they are continually protected from their own idiocy and ignorance. This not only allows them to function, it allows them to remain in the gene pool.

Retail Automotive Repair has to scrounge up the most moronic people on the planet. Things like, "you did an oil change last week and now I have a flat tire, what did you do?!" and "you fixed a flat yesterday and now my check engine light is on" are extremely common. Sorry to hijack your thread... LOL
Nov. 7, 2011 4:34 p.m. ddavidv SuperDork

No, that post above is totally relevant. I hear that all the time. I had a guy argue with me six months later about something that went amiss on his car that wasn't remotely related.

A word about independents: I was one, for two different employers. It sucks. They work you like mad, pay you poorly for the most part and you have to know the procedures for umpteen different insurers. I have enough trouble keeping after what my dopey company wants. Every shop and insurer I know despises independents, because they just don't give a berkeley since they don't work for the actual insurer. It was a foot in the door for me, but I never worked so hard for so little pay in my life.
Nov. 7, 2011 8:14 p.m. conesare2seconds Reader

Thanks for the feedback. I've worked in Life & Disability claims for over 7 years now and have 15 years in insurance operations. The disability side gave me a lot of insight about people. Most folks who file claims just need some help, get it, and go back to work. The small percentage of people who have just decided not to work any more - and want to get paid not to - take up most of your time and effort. FWIW,disability insurance policies are getting better at managing these situations over time. By comparison, Life claims are mostly cake.

Anyhow, I'll keep talking to folks in the biz and check it out further. I'm very good at interpreting policy provisions and always try to apply them fairly. Don't mind explaining policy provisions to the customer, but a caution flag is I always wonder why the selling agent didn't make a better sale. I've found in life/disability that all mistakes (at sale, billing, policy issue etc.) accrue at claim time, which is frustrating, so estimating my be a better pick for me than adjusting.
Nov. 8, 2011 6:34 a.m. Klayfish HalfDork

conesare2seconds wrote:

Thanks for the feedback. I've worked in Life & Disability claims for over 7 years now and have 15 years in insurance operations. The disability side gave me a lot of insight about people. Most folks who file claims just need some help, get it, and go back to work. The small percentage of people who have just decided not to work any more - and want to get paid not to - take up most of your time and effort. FWIW,disability insurance policies are getting better at managing these situations over time. By comparison, Life claims are mostly cake.

Anyhow, I'll keep talking to folks in the biz and check it out further. I'm very good at interpreting policy provisions and always try to apply them fairly. Don't mind explaining policy provisions to the customer, but a caution flag is I always wonder why the selling agent didn't make a better sale. I've found in life/disability that all mistakes (at sale, billing, policy issue etc.) accrue at claim time, which is frustrating, so estimating my be a better pick for me than adjusting.

If you're really good at doing disability claims and interpreting policy provisions (and exclusions), I'd think you'd want to look towards the adjusting side of things. Auto claims, especially bodily injury, may fit your strengths pretty well.