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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Chevy Volt Lies?

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Oct. 23, 2010 8:53 p.m. madmallard Reader

people forget the volt has a $7500 tax credit, so net is about $32,000.

as far as I know, prius's offering will be still based on NiMH, and not offer the range, and be priced pretty close to the middle of options on current prius pricing. (starts at 26). not too certain yet if it will end up qualifying for the same tax credit....

at any rate, its still a little prius. They have no similar plans for a camry or corolla which is what the Volt is closer to in size. Even if they did, unless they switch charging tech radically, or goto Li-on, the heavier car will get even less range in battery only mode.

I'm a betting man that GM will be able to improve charge range by at least 8% a year. Add 3 miles to the 2012 volt. and so forth.
Oct. 23, 2010 11:30 p.m. TJ SuperDork

I wish them well. I also wish the marketing people would focus a bit more on the technology than the gozmos and doodads. If this car is really so different why are they selling it by blathering on about the features that make it just like every other new car? (navigation system, hard drives, bluetooth, USB port, remote start key fob, bose radio)
Oct. 23, 2010 11:48 p.m. madmallard Reader

i understand that sentiment totally, but that ones easy to explain. Hyundai and Kia have been optioning their budget lines like crazy for 10 years and its forcing everyone to keep up. GM probably thought 10 years ago they could just sit on their exclusivity with onStar....
Oct. 23, 2010 11:48 p.m. novaderrik Reader

TJ wrote:

I wish them well. I also wish the marketing people would focus a bit more on the technology than the gozmos and doodads. If this car is really so different why are they selling it by blathering on about the features that make it just like every other new car? (navigation system, hard drives, bluetooth, USB port, remote start key fob, bose radio)

does an electric car need a remote start key fob?

the whole point is that it is a "clean" car that is also a "real" car.. so they throw all those extra comfort items that not only add weight, but also drain the batteries faster. i wonder how much range you give up when you run everything at once?
Oct. 24, 2010 12:01 a.m. Jim Pettengill HalfDork

I'm a pretty green guy, and have always promoted small, light, fuel efficient cars, but looking into the future, I can imagine what will happen if we get, say, half a million plug-in electrics in southern California, and the owners all plug in to recharge at the same time. Can you see grid problems here? And as far as zero-polution is concerned, the electricity comes from somewhere, currently mostly coal-fired powerplants out in the desert somewhere. It's a case of moving the pollution to where they consumer can't see it.

I'd be firmly in favor of plug-ins when the owner has a wind generator or photovoltaics to do the recharging, or when the generation/delivery infrastructure has been significantly upgraded, but I think in the near, practical future we'll mostly see increased use of hybrids, especailly in larger cars.

In the meantime, my Mk 1 MR2 happily averages 35 mpg overall, touching 40 mpg on trips, dropping to 29 on tanks that include a track day. And it's paid for. Oh well, the sacrifices us retirees on fixed incomes must make.
Oct. 24, 2010 12:23 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

In reply to Jim Pettengill:

The vast majority will plug in at night, no grid problems at all. There is also the claim that most power plants don't do well at low demand and actually prefer not ramping down so far at night and will be more efficient at higher demand. Many power plants are already offering lower rates for late night chargers. As for the coal fired plant thing: gas is drilled for, pumped, shipped, refined, trucked, pumped and then burned. Every energy source has it's inefficiency. Currently electrical energy from the wall is cheap and fairly efficient. It doesn't hurt to allow the consumer to capitalize on that fact.
Oct. 24, 2010 12:33 a.m. madmallard Reader

Maybe there's be a problem with the scenario you described.... but somehow i doubt it.

Even using 240volt connection, the charging will take up no more electricity than a big fridge, say a 20cubic french door number.

Even assuming there are 500,000 plug in hybrids going in So Cal at night, its nowhere near the load that millions of homes turning on the A/C at the first hint of 90s in the forecast.

As far as polution, you can't intellectually call it 'moving' the polution if the net sum of polution goes down. In this case, it goes down significantly when shifting the energy producing burden to a grid-style system. Even low-ball estimates show that using the grid to produce electricity is making more than 80% less of the polution than the gasoline engine in a normal car.
Oct. 24, 2010 7:50 a.m. TJ SuperDork

link

This link seems to say that there is no clear cut winner between a gasoline powered car and a coal powered car (which is what the Volt is in most parts of the country) in terms of emissions.
Oct. 24, 2010 8:40 a.m. ignorant SuperDork

wouldn't a used prius plus a commercially available plug in kit be about the same thing as a volt for much cheaper.
Oct. 24, 2010 8:45 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

ignorant wrote:

wouldn't a used prius plus a commercially available plug in kit be about the same thing as a volt for much cheaper.

Cept for being boring, yes.
Oct. 24, 2010 8:46 a.m. ignorant SuperDork

MrJoshua wrote:

ignorant wrote:

wouldn't a used prius plus a commercially available plug in kit be about the same thing as a volt for much cheaper.

Cept for being boring, yes.

and the volt is like a lotus?
Oct. 24, 2010 10:28 a.m. FlightService Reader

Cotton wrote:

FlightService wrote:

35 mpg, recorded from a GM engineer. Not good

Not good at all

uh it was .4 gallon not 4 gallons.

Missed the decimal.

I am practicing to work for the federal government.
Oct. 24, 2010 10:39 a.m. ignorant SuperDork

FlightService wrote:

Cotton wrote:

FlightService wrote:

35 mpg, recorded from a GM engineer. Not good

Not good at all

uh it was .4 gallon not 4 gallons.

Missed the decimal.

I am practicing to work for the federal government.

you need to practice more. It's sunday and you should be home..

Office hours are 9-3:30pm Monday through Thursday. Fridays are 10-1...
Oct. 24, 2010 10:44 a.m. Knurled HalfDork

madmallard wrote: GM, even before the bailouts, was basically bankrolling a battery technology generation increase. NiMH wasn't/wouldn't be ready for what they wanted in a Volt.

Ever see something click into place?

GM funding this new technology. GM runs out of money before it can be implemented. GM needs bailed out.

Public goes "wharrgarbl GM should die why bail them out wharr" without seeing the whole picture.
Oct. 24, 2010 12:04 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

ignorant wrote:

MrJoshua wrote:

ignorant wrote:

wouldn't a used prius plus a commercially available plug in kit be about the same thing as a volt for much cheaper.

Cept for being boring, yes.

and the volt is like a lotus?

The motors in the Prius are capable of more handling more power than the batteries can dish out. I wonder how much power the controller can handle? If replacing the batteries with a more capable setup and hacking the controller can double your available electrical propulsion you might actually be able to make a fun car out of a Prius.
Oct. 24, 2010 7:02 p.m. Rufledt Reader

For the price of a Volt, i could drive my old Econline another 177,000 miles. (or 50,000 more miles, at which point i could afford a crate 302 and tranny, plus another 50,000 miles) And that's got a built in cooler, a VCR, V8, and i can fit 2,000lbs of my stuff inside. The brown shag carpeting alone is more appealing to me than a volt. But again, they never made the volt for someone like me.

Did i mention the 4 color (all brown) paint scheme and the gold roof rack? when can i get that on a volt?
Oct. 24, 2010 7:08 p.m. Knurled HalfDork

novaderrik wrote:

does an electric car need a remote start key fob?

On the Prius, you can turn the A/C on with the fob.

Getting into a precooled car is half the reason for having remote start.
Oct. 24, 2010 7:37 p.m. TJ SuperDork

"Remote Keyless Starter

Remote Keyless Entry is standard on every Volt. It offers remote start, door lock/unlock and charge port door control. See the complete list of features and specifications."

From the Volt website. Clearly says remote start. I would think that it should be remote turning on as there really isn't a starter for a battery. I'm guessing pre-cooling ones car is one of those things that seems silly until you get used to it. I am still at the stage that I think smartphones are silly, so I am nowhere near ready for a pre-cooled car.
Oct. 24, 2010 8:12 p.m. Knurled HalfDork

The other half is preheated cars. Much more useful in the winter. You don't have to worry about clearing the hot off of the windshield before driving off in the summer.

I don't have a remote start. I have to physically walk outside, start the car, and go back inside.
Oct. 24, 2010 10:28 p.m. TJ SuperDork

In reply to Knurled:

I have a garage.
Oct. 24, 2010 11:26 p.m. novaderrik Reader

Knurled wrote:

The other half is preheated cars. Much more useful in the winter. You don't have to worry about clearing the hot off of the windshield before driving off in the summer.

I don't have a remote start. I have to physically walk outside, start the car, and go back inside.

i know people that start their cars upwards of 1/2 hour before going anywhere in the winter, and they still have to scrape and shovel snow off their windshield before driving. i get in my car, start it, get out to scrape the windows/shovel off the snow, and drive off... all in a minute or two.. and by the time i go about 1/2 mile, the heater is already kicking out heat... these same people wonder why their gas mileage drops so much in the winter and blame it on the oil companies/illuminati/liberals/whatever other scary sounding group they read about on the internet..

as for cooling off a car in the summer- isn't that why windows roll down?
Oct. 24, 2010 11:43 p.m. Luke SuperDork

Rufledt wrote:

The brown shag carpeting alone is more appealing to me than a volt.

Lol!
Oct. 25, 2010 4:20 a.m. Canute New Reader

JohnGalt wrote:

All i know is that if the Volt works like GM claims it does then you better stock up on some of this.

Gas turns to varnish rather quick these days...

I love Sta-Bil. It appears to clean out fuel systems. I think it's worth throwing some in every once in a while. The Volt sounds expensive, but it sounds like the ticket for people who have short, and, especially, stop and go, commutes.
Oct. 25, 2010 11:35 a.m. Knurled HalfDork

novaderrik wrote: i get in my car, start it, get out to scrape the windows/shovel off the snow, and drive off... all in a minute or two.. and by the time i go about 1/2 mile, the heater is already kicking out heat...

I usually don't have any appreciable heat until I'm 10 minutes into my drive to work. It's hard to hold your breath for ten minutes. It's even harder to drive for ten minutes while trying to keep the moist outside air from touching the windshield.

I foudn that dumping a bottle of alcohol onto the windshield before driving off keeps it from icing over instantly, but jeez, it's cheaper to let the engine idle for twenty minutes.
Oct. 25, 2010 1:42 p.m. FlightService Reader

ignorant wrote:

FlightService wrote:

Cotton wrote:

FlightService wrote:

35 mpg, recorded from a GM engineer. Not good

Not good at all

uh it was .4 gallon not 4 gallons.

Got it I will try harder..or is it less? Missed the decimal.

I am practicing to work for the federal government.

you need to practice more. It's sunday and you should be home..

Office hours are 9-3:30pm Monday through Thursday. Fridays are 10-1...

I will try harder...or is it less? I'm confused.

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