grover
grover Reader
1/2/18 1:21 p.m.

I have a weird job.  I'm a wedding photographer/videographer.  This affords me a decent income, but also means I have a good amount of time available during the week.  I've got a science/math background so i'm good with numbers.  I've been thinking about day trading. Does anyone else do this? How do I learn, what works on my mac...etc. Please make me retire at 40.  

 

dculberson
dculberson PowerDork
1/2/18 1:36 p.m.

Most day traders lose money, and very many of them end up bankrupt.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
1/2/18 1:41 p.m.

It's legalized gambling.  You are betting what stocks someone will pay you more for after you bought them.  If it were a science, it would be easy.  Being human nature defines how it goes, it's hard.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/2/18 1:42 p.m.

Yeah it's like two pegs below trading cryptocurrencies on the risk-o-meter.

(one peg for not being made-up Internet money, and another one because you don't have to worry about governments around the world waking up one morning and saying "Holy E36 M3, how have we been handling this stuff with our daintiest kid gloves all this time compared to everything prior that functions similarly!?" )

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
1/2/18 2:02 p.m.

In reply to grover :

I've worked for companies that essentially do this in an automated fashion, which is kinda the only way to do this properly. I've also worked on those trading systems myself, so I've got a pretty good idea what's involved in actually making money that way.

I'd very much echo that for the individual with no relevant experience, it's a good way to make a small fortune[1]. Yes, people can make money doing it, the same way as a handful of people can make a living as a professional poker player.

Short term trading is close to gambling (unless you have inside information, which makes it more profitable and also illegal). If you want to do this with your toy money that's one thing, but if you're looking to boost your retirement funds, run away.

Fun fact - a lot of "successful" trading strategies that look really good on paper even for an individual implode when you take transaction costs into account.

[1] Out of a very large one.

grover
grover Reader
1/2/18 2:03 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:

Yeah it's like two pegs below trading cryptocurrencies on the risk-o-meter.

(one peg for not being made-up Internet money, and another one because you don't have to worry about governments around the world waking up one morning and saying "Holy E36 M3, how have we been handling this stuff with our daintiest kid gloves all this time compared to everything prior that functions similarly!?" )

agreed on the crypto stuff.  Although I do regret not buying that $300 bitcoin generator years ago.  

grover
grover Reader
1/2/18 2:04 p.m.

ok, well you guys have sufficiently scared the crap out of me.  I thought it would be similar to commodities but on a reduced timescale. 

BoxheadCougarTim
BoxheadCougarTim MegaDork
1/2/18 2:09 p.m.

In reply to grover :

I'd agree with that statement. It'll make your money implode even faster than trading commodities .

Seriously, there is the occasional strategy that can make money (at least for a period) for a lone trader because the returns aren't there for the big boys. But there's a plethora of trading companies out there that invest a lot of brain power and money into finding and trading them, which leaves somewhere between nothing or small crumbs.

Think of it like taking part in Indycar with a Formula V - if everybody else's engine explodes, you may stand a chance, but you have a much better chance of just getting run over and smeared all across the track.

grover
grover Reader
1/2/18 2:26 p.m.
BoxheadCougarTim said:

In reply to grover :

I've worked for companies that essentially do this in an automated fashion, which is kinda the only way to do this properly. I've also worked on those trading systems myself, so I've got a pretty good idea what's involved in actually making money that way.

I'd very much echo that for the individual with no relevant experience, it's a good way to make a small fortune[1]. Yes, people can make money doing it, the same way as a handful of people can make a living as a professional poker player.

Short term trading is close to gambling (unless you have inside information, which makes it more profitable and also illegal). If you want to do this with your toy money that's one thing, but if you're looking to boost your retirement funds, run away.

Fun fact - a lot of "successful" trading strategies that look really good on paper even for an individual implode when you take transaction costs into account.

[1] Out of a very large one.

that's basically what I wanted to hear.  It sounds like it's mostly an outlier industry, and fees can eat up any profits quickly.  I suppose I'll keep on flipping old cars on the side.  

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane Dork
1/2/18 2:30 p.m.

The other thing I've observed on this is that there's companies spending millions of dollars on computers physically located closer to the exchanges.  They're doing "day trading" in the nanoseconds range.  If there were money to be made truly day trading, they have about a 1 billion multiplier as an advantage.  It's hard to compete with that except for the scraps as Boxhead "Cougar" Tim says.

pheller
pheller PowerDork
1/2/18 2:37 p.m.

There are not many jobs outside of art (like photography) or computer programmer/development that allow for a decent income with near unlimited flexibility. If there were, I'd be trying to get them. 

I should've gotten into wedding photography. I almost did but never made the commitment. I've got a buddy who does it. She lives a good life. 

Anyone I know who day trades just does it as a way of keeping up with the news. Not really for income, per say.

Shawnb
Shawnb New Reader
1/2/18 6:04 p.m.

As others have stated, don't. 

 

I would focus on growing your business. 

 

Is there endless opportunity in that field? I have a few friends who are in wedding photography, all in the same area. All of them do extremely well. 

grover
grover Reader
1/2/18 7:13 p.m.
pheller said:

There are not many jobs outside of art (like photography) or computer programmer/development that allow for a decent income with near unlimited flexibility. If there were, I'd be trying to get them. 

I should've gotten into wedding photography. I almost did but never made the commitment. I've got a buddy who does it. She lives a good life. 

Anyone I know who day trades just does it as a way of keeping up with the news. Not really for income, per say.

it's not a terrible area of photography to be in, although it is still looked down upon pretty much and that bums me out.  but the income and freedom is sort of insane.  I passed on dental school because we were already making enough on the side that dental school didn't make financial sense. 

grover
grover Reader
1/2/18 7:15 p.m.
Shawnb said:

As others have stated, don't. 

 

I would focus on growing your business. 

 

Is there endless opportunity in that field? I have a few friends who are in wedding photography, all in the same area. All of them do extremely well. 

I'm not sure about endless, but i'd say it's one of the easier things to make well into the 6 figures in if you do it well.  I'm continuing to grow my business- but you'd be surprised how much free time this profession affords you.  Also, photography is my job and not my hobby, I like doing other stuff- that's why I'm into cars and renovating the house we're in.  hobbies are fun.  

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
1/2/18 8:00 p.m.

The only sure fire way to make it rich in real estate or forex trading or day trading or crypto is to convince others that you have a secret that’ll make them get rich which you can share with them for only a small fee of three easy payments of $99. 

MrChaos
MrChaos Dork
1/2/18 8:42 p.m.

Just buy weed stocks atm and sell once you have made decent profit.

N Sperlo
N Sperlo MegaDork
1/2/18 10:40 p.m.
grover said:

I have a weird job.

 

I'm pretty sure this is how most topics here start.

frenchyd
frenchyd Dork
1/2/18 11:13 p.m.

In reply to grover :

my next door neighbor does this and is extremely good at it.  When asked about it he tells me that the deck is wildly stacked against Day traders.  

Your internet speed is critical.  State of the art is critical, The absolute very cutting edge. 

Why don’t you try it on paper?  Pick some limit of theoretical investment funds  and do  buy whatever stock tickles your fancy.  Keep track (on paper)  figure in your costs. See if you will be a winner or loser.  

95% of Experienced  professionals on average  earn less than the DOW  gains over  5 year period.  So if you have excess funds to invest and you aren’t better than 95% of experienced professionals just buy the DOW.  You can invest by buying diamonds which exactly tracks the DOW at a modest fee.   

 

Our Preferred Partners
biNhFnSoJ4VhXWLvQTfKQ1IsBnSpuR5jwVY1KZ8p5V4nZCF3qFPORSfMzLq0bhIT