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  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 3, 2009 4:08 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    MadScientistMatt wrote:

    The 318 and 360 are nearly identical and both have pretty good lifespans - I'd be more worried about the transmission.

    That's good to hear. Aside from the possibility of a Ram, I want that 5.9L in my Wrangler. Don't know if I'll bother with the 4xRE tranny; I'll see if I can get a 727 hooked up. Good old TorqueFlite. I've got a 999 behind my 4.0L right now.

    As for the Tundra, prices for even the earliest ones are still way higher than anything domestic, I guess because it's a Toyota.

  • Spinout007

    Nov. 3, 2009 6:08 p.m. Spinout007 Reader

    JeepinMatt wrote:

    Nah I don't mind asking, I'm not secretive about what I'm spending. I need a truck within a year maybe, when the E30 loses its street-legal status, so it's not totally set in stone yet. $3-4k would be realistic. If I could swing $5k for a real good example, I'm not sure. I do get concerned about safety when I'll be carrying around my girlfriend every day.

    I found a 1 ton, diesel rig around me for a grand, yeah it is almost 20years old, but it's a diesel 2wd with a 5sp, that tells me I can tow WHATEVER I want and still get decent mileage. Needs some work but for 2k more u can rebuild the motor. Look around.

  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 3, 2009 7:39 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    One thing I didn't think to mention is that it's gotta be more than a regular cab. I don't usually carry more than one human passenger, but big dogs are going to be another story.

  • Nov. 3, 2009 9:45 p.m. 93gsxturbo Reader

    Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 with the Cummins Turbo Diesel. I got mine for $3500. Get 'em while the economy is down and people are hot to sell!

    /thread

  • oldtin

    Nov. 3, 2009 10:14 p.m. oldtin Reader

    1/2 ton is fine for occassional towing near it's rating (with precautions listed). If you're towing often it will take its toll on a 1/2 ton suspension (you can upgrade to helper springs though). 3/4 tons will have heavier frame, heavier duty axles/housings. If you tow heavy and often, well, I am American, bigger. F250 extended or crew cabs are tough but have a football field-sized turning radius. In the rust belt, plow trucks have a hard life - watch for front frame issues (ramming curbs, salt damage, etc)

  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 3, 2009 10:28 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    Yeah I learned what those northern climates (and salt) can do to cars the hard way. Back when I was in high school, my father bought a '68 Cougar with the 302 from a guy in Minnesota. Gold with a black roof and pillars, and black and chrome Torq-Thrust look-a-likes. Nice car, but it looked like an impact with anything bigger than a shopping cart would turn its frame into Nesquik chocolate powder. Rusty, rusty chocolate powder.

  • neon4891

    Nov. 3, 2009 10:51 p.m. neon4891 UltraDork

    SVreX wrote:

    Having said that, most full sized half ton trucks are rated for about 5000 lbs.

    Wow, our Dakota is rated at 7k

  • aussiesmg

    Nov. 4, 2009 5:09 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

    My E150 (1/2 ton) is rated at 7000 and has towed about 15K miles this year, including towing the challenge S10 to the Challenge and the Mitty without incident, and my trailer weighs 2800lb. It is rusty in the body but solid in the frame, that van has been to 9 states to get cars and parts in the past year.

  • mapper

    Nov. 4, 2009 6:53 a.m. mapper New Reader

    neon4891 wrote:

    SVreX wrote:

    Having said that, most full sized half ton trucks are rated for about 5000 lbs.

    Wow, our Dakota is rated at 7k

    My 04 Ram 1500 is rated up near 9k. It tows my 2300+ Miata and 1500# trailer like it wasn't even there.

  • curtis73

    Nov. 4, 2009 8:11 a.m. curtis73 HalfDork

    You can kinda ditch factory tow ratings. They're more for covering the manufacturer under warranty. If you exceed the tow rating they have a valid claim for denying repair.

    I tow my flatbed with a 98 F150 4x4 with the 4.6L wheezer. Does great. Trailer is about 2000, 66 bonneville that lives on it is about 5500. I was originally looking for a diesel 3/4, but the F150 was $4000 with 120k on it. A comparable diesel would have been about $7000-8000. At the time I didn't tow enough to need the diesel so I regretfully made the decision to go gas

    You don't need 3/4, but it doesn't really hurt anything. MPGs are not terrible since the only real functional difference is a potentially lower axle ratio. They weigh a touch more and ride a bit stiffer, but I don't mind.

    Something to consider when discussing towing ability is wheelbase. The longer the tow vehicle, the less leverage a swaying trailer has on it. You can also help a tow vehicle by stepping up to D-rated tires. They have stiffer sidewalls to hold the pressure necessary to support the extra weight they can handle. That also means they have less side-to-side flex.

    Proper tires, weight distributing hitch, and careful driving means a 1/2 ton would be fine. 3/4 would be better, but if you don't tow long distances or tow every weekend its not really worth it IMO

  • Cotton

    Nov. 4, 2009 8:36 a.m. Cotton HalfDork

    I stay within factory tow ratings to stay legal. If you are overloaded and cause an accident you open yourself up to all kinds of legal problems...especially if someone is injured or killed.

  • Nov. 4, 2009 11:05 a.m. blizazer New Reader

    Cotton wrote:

    I stay within factory tow ratings to stay legal. If you are overloaded and cause an accident you open yourself up to all kinds of legal problems...especially if someone is injured or killed.

    Beyond the legal standpoint, I prefer not to injure or kill people just due to character.

    Its like these roadsigns they have in Michigan now, that tell you if you kill a highway construction worker, you may go to jail or pay a fine. Do we really need a sign for that?

  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 4, 2009 5:21 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    oldtin wrote:

    1/2 ton is fine for occassional towing near it's rating (with precautions listed). If you're towing often it will take its toll on a 1/2 ton suspension (you can upgrade to helper springs though). 3/4 tons will have heavier frame, heavier duty axles/housings. If you tow heavy and often, well, I am American, bigger. F250 extended or crew cabs are tough but have a football field-sized turning radius. In the rust belt, plow trucks have a hard life - watch for front frame issues (ramming curbs, salt damage, etc)

    One thing that reminds me is that F250s and F350s are a ripe target for thieves, since they're very easy to break into and get running

  • Schmidlap

    Nov. 4, 2009 7:47 p.m. Schmidlap Reader

    Just curious, but how does a modern 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup compare with a 20 or 30 year old model? Old 1/2 ton pickups look tiny sitting beside a new one, I'd guess their towing capabilities have improved similarly over the years (not just the factory tow rating, but towing manners in general).

    Considering that a new "1/2 ton" F150 has a payload capacity of 1700-2000 lbs (Regular cab 4X2) calling it a 1/2 ton is just really just tradition. If a modern 1/2 ton actually has better capabilities than a 20 or 30 year old 3/4 ton, does it make sense to discuss things in terms of 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton? I'm guessing that any 1/2 ton pickup from the 90s and up would tow much better than a 3/4 ton pickup from the 60s or 70s, and I'm willing to bet they used them to tow a car on a trailer back then, so my bet is that you'll do just great with a 1/2 ton.

    Bob

  • Paul_VR6

    Nov. 4, 2009 9:25 p.m. Paul_VR6 Reader

    I towed quite a bit with my Ram SS/T (single cab, short bed, 2wd, 5.9), 2200lb trailer with a 1900lb race car. Other then keeping it out of OD while towing and having a good brake controller there really wasn't much to it. I towed the same trailer with a 4wd 2500 ram double cab long bed with the same motor and it was only a little more stable and had more pep while towing because of the gearing. If you're not pushing the tow rating of a 1/2 ton at all I don't see the need for bigger.

  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 4, 2009 9:55 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    Schmidlap wrote:

    Just curious, but how does a modern 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup compare with a 20 or 30 year old model? Old 1/2 ton pickups look tiny sitting beside a new one, I'd guess their towing capabilities have improved similarly over the years (not just the factory tow rating, but towing manners in general).

    Considering that a new "1/2 ton" F150 has a payload capacity of 1700-2000 lbs (Regular cab 4X2) calling it a 1/2 ton is just really just tradition. If a modern 1/2 ton actually has better capabilities than a 20 or 30 year old 3/4 ton, does it make sense to discuss things in terms of 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton? I'm guessing that any 1/2 ton pickup from the 90s and up would tow much better than a 3/4 ton pickup from the 60s or 70s, and I'm willing to bet they used them to tow a car on a trailer back then, so my bet is that you'll do just great with a 1/2 ton.

    Bob

    Yeah, that's something I wondered too. How cool would it be to show up at the track with a 50s-something Chevy, Dodge or Studebaker truck? Maybe some more modern modifications, even a newer engine and tranny, but still

  • patgizz

    Nov. 5, 2009 7:15 a.m. patgizz Dork

    i thought i could tow the world with a half ton, and did, without trailer brakes, for a long time. cars, dump trailers, you name it i towed it with a 4.3 chevy 1500 with a 3.08 rear.

    then i got my 1 ton dually with 454, manual, and 4.11 rear. holy crap i can strap a tank on the trailer and not feel it.

  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 21, 2009 1:50 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    I really need to step up my search for a truck. I love my Jeep and want to keep it forever. Certainly possible, if I give it the maintenance it deserves. Problem is, I drive close to 20k miles a year and need to have it running every single day. I'm just not able to put it up in the garage and get anything bigger than a day job done these days. I don't want to run it into the ground. If I have the truck to share DD, then I can afford to keep the Jeep in the shape it deserves. Not that this hasn't made it easier for me to justify a long list of upgraded parts

    On a separate note, I've considered mid-sized trucks like the Dakota and the T100. T100 is a great truck; problem is, no V8 and prices are at Toyota levels. For that kind of green, I could have a 5.9L Ram or a Silverado 2500.

  • Nov. 21, 2009 2:15 p.m. purplepeopleeater New Reader

    I've pulled a 15' box trailer filled with equipment about 6500# woth with an E-150, an F250 & a Suburban 1500 4WD.. You had to be careful about load placement with the E-150 but it was fine other than that. The F-250 didn't care what you did with it (it was a longbed X-tra cab diesel) , but it beat you to death going down the road & was not a comfortable DD. The 'Buban tows a car trailer with ease, is comfortable & a capable family hauler. I wouldn't bother with a 3/4 ton if I were you

  • xci_ed6

    Nov. 21, 2009 7:16 p.m. xci_ed6 Reader

    Age doesn't matter as much as condition. If you get an older one, just make sure to go over everything real real good. If you go with a 1/2-ton, at least make sure they have the tow package, on GMC/Chevy it came with better brakes. Also would be more likely to have the HD cooler option, saving you some time & $$ in upgrades.

    http://aplsweb.com/Topics/TopicPix/RPO.pdf

    Check the RPO list in the glovebox, and compare to the lest to see the factory options.

  • cwh

    Nov. 21, 2009 11:01 p.m. cwh SuperDork

    I bartered with a company I did subcontract work for for a 1 ton Chevy van. 500.00 or so. 350ci, turbo400, no wheels, no battery. Got it on the road for nickles and dimes. That thing would tow ANYTHING!! Gas mileage? 12mpg, empty, 12mpg with 5000# tow weight, made no difference. Loved that truck, but after the second engine puked, it left.

  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 21, 2009 11:06 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    I suppose I wouldn't need the extended cab as long as I have the Wrangler to pull duty when I need to carry dogs or groceries. Would be nice though

  • curtis73

    Nov. 23, 2009 12:44 a.m. curtis73 HalfDork

    Cotton wrote:

    I stay within factory tow ratings to stay legal. If you are overloaded and cause an accident you open yourself up to all kinds of legal problems...especially if someone is injured or killed.

    Factory tow ratings have absolutely nothing to do with the law. The law is only concerned with GVW. As long as the tow rig is under GVW, and the trailer is under GVW (and you have the proper safety equipment) there is no way you can get a ticket.

    Factory tow ratings are NOT legal limits. They are bean-counter recommendations based on not having to pay warranty repairs. Period. 1 year as an engineer for Ford and Volvo, and 4 years as a consultant for GM, Saab, Honda, Volvo, Nissan, and Mazda, along with a 16-year career CDL driver have taught me that.

    If you get pulled over for a ticket, the only thing that is legally enforcable is the GVW of the vehicle and the GVW of the trailer. Those are the only registered legal capacities that they have access to. They don't have a book that says "an F150 extended cab 4x4 with the 4.6L and 3.45 gears (with optional transmission cooler and tow package) can tow 5900 lbs." Even if they had that magic book that listed all the tow ratings for every possible combination of tow vehicle, how many of them will crawl under the car to decode the axle tag, look for 4x4, be able to establish if it has the transmission cooler and tow package, measure the wheelbase, verify tire load rating.... the list is endless. The law allows them (unfortunately) to discern for themselves what "appears" to be safe and what isn't. I used to be a full-time RVer. I towed a 31' travel trailer with an F250 diesel. At one point in Montana, my weight distribution bars were stolen, so I had to drive 150 miles with my tail sagging. I got two tickets in that 150 miles for "unsafe towing."

  • JeepinMatt

    Nov. 23, 2009 6:51 p.m. JeepinMatt Reader

    My gut says a Toyota T100 won't be enough. More of a mid-size than anything. Correct? They carry the typical Toyota price tag, but my thought would be that they may be a bit more reliable at the same price point.

  • bam2002

    Nov. 23, 2009 7:25 p.m. bam2002 Reader

    I had a Chevy 1500 I used it to tow a single car open trailer that didnt have brakes. It was fine. I did tow an enclosed 20 foot trailer and although it worked however it was not fun. 2 years ago I upgraded to a 2003 Dodge 3500 Dually. I also picked up a 32 foot 5th wheel open trailer so on track days we could tow both my wifes and my track car. No problems. easy to drive, stops well even with 2 cars. The 3500 Diesel gets 12 to 13 MPG with the 2 car trailer and 15 with single trailer. I can get 17 to 19 when not towing. If you keep the truck below 60 mph the milage is the best. If I go above 70 it drops fast.

    I wish I would of gone with a Diesel first.

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