EV and emissions and bad reporting

volvoclearinghouse wrote: I am seeing more and more homes with solar roofs. Assuming the production of this tech can keep up, this seems like a good way to go. Used in conjunction with a grid-tie system, with some other source of non-sun-dependent power connected, this, I think, could be a good long-term solution for power stability and fewer emissions.

This. Solar is cheap right now and easy to deploy in any size chunk you want. A 5KW setup will handle a full charge on a leaf every day. A 1KW setup would handle my usage.

On that note, with everything getting smarter, it wouldn't surprise me if you can start setting charge priority in your car to get reduced rates. As solar fluctuates and the grid is unable to keepup temporarily, drop the charging on the cars that don't need it. When it gets back to full production/overproduction, charge those cars. I suspect the majority of electric cars in use today could deal with this if they had the ability to plug in at work and home (or whenever not in use).

I'm also curious what the environmental impact of solar panel production overseas is.

ProDarwin wrote: I'm also curious what the environmental impact of solar panel production overseas is.

Nothing to see here...

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

You'll see that anywhere that rare metals are easily accessible and environmental regulations are more of a suggestion than a requirement.

There's been a lot of onshoring happening in the US lately both in batteries and solar as well as other green tech. The feds are a lot less lenient about environmental regulations here but it's still profitable. Or it's Tesla math. One of the two.

I think it will be really cool when you can get an EV with a solar panel roof that can accomplish real charging. My commute is about ten miles each way, and guess what my car does from 7 am to 5pm? It sits in a sunny parking lot. The article i read says that there are car roof sized panels that can get you about 3 miles of charge. My guess is in five years it will be better, but since im no scientist i really have no idea how much energy can be extracted from 10 hours of sunlight.

ProDarwin wrote: ... Solar is cheap right now and easy to deploy in any size chunk you want...

This is my only concern with solar at this point. It keeps getting cheaper, and I don't want to get stuck with $5000 worth of solar panels bolted on my roof that I paid $20000 for 10 years previous.

gearheadmb wrote: I think it will be really cool when you can get an EV with a solar panel roof that can accomplish real charging. My commute is about ten miles each way, and guess what my car does from 7 am to 5pm? It sits in a sunny parking lot. The article i read says that there are car roof sized panels that can get you about 3 miles of charge. My guess is in five years it will be better, but since im no scientist i really have no idea how much energy can be extracted from 10 hours of sunlight.

Solar is getting cheaper and cheaper, not not really more efficient.

The photoelectric effect won a Nobel Prize. For Albert Einstein. In 1921.

gearheadmb wrote: I think it will be really cool when you can get an EV with a solar panel roof that can accomplish real charging. My commute is about ten miles each way, and guess what my car does from 7 am to 5pm? It sits in a sunny parking lot. The article i read says that there are car roof sized panels that can get you about 3 miles of charge. My guess is in five years it will be better, but since im no scientist i really have no idea how much energy can be extracted from 10 hours of sunlight.

Solar irradiance is roughly 1000w/square meter. Integrate that to get solar insolation.

In the US, you are probably in the 3-5.5 hour range.

So with a 100% efficient panel, parked in the arizona desert (current panels are in the teens and in labs they are in the 20s), you'd get about 5.5kw-hr.

Thats respectable, but obviously not realistic.

gearheadmb wrote: I think it will be really cool when you can get an EV with a solar panel roof that can accomplish real charging.

Indeed. Getting to the point where solar-only is sufficient for commuting requires EVs that are much lighter and more efficient. Ready to re-think what a 'car' is?

tuna55 wrote: I wish I could lock threads which I started.

Hello, welcome to the GRM forum, I'm Joey. Main thing to remember is our topics tend to drift.

Hey, perhaps one advantage to developing more bike paths could be that maybe in the future we'll have little solar-roofed cars that can only travel at 25mph tops, but get their own special roads devoid of truck traffic and larger vehicles.

joey48442 wrote: Hello, welcome to the GRM forum, I'm Joey. Main thing to remember is our topics tend to drift.

Did someone say drift?

anyone hear of this diesel drift Miata?

sorry

aircooled wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: ... Solar is cheap right now and easy to deploy in any size chunk you want...

This is my only concern with solar at this point. It keeps getting cheaper, and I don't want to get stuck with $5000 worth of solar panels bolted on my roof that I paid $20000 for 10 years previous.

Unfortunately that's how it goes I suppose with any tech, until it hits a bottom price and then only the tech gets better. Like tvs or phones

nderwater wrote:

gearheadmb wrote: I think it will be really cool when you can get an EV with a solar panel roof that can accomplish real charging.

Indeed. Getting to the point where solar-only is sufficient for commuting requires EVs that are much lighter and more efficient. Ready to re-think what a 'car' is?

Either that, or radically more efficient solar panels. But even at 99% efficiency and all upper surfaces of a car covered, you couldn't collect enough energy:

https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/a-solar-powered-car/

Ahh but he does make one caveat:

"A Niche for Solar Transport

UCSD golf cart with PV roof.

There is a niche in which a vehicle with a PV roof could be self-satisfied. Golf carts that can get up to 25 m.p.h. (40 km/h) can be useful for neighborhood errands, or for transport within a small community. They are lightweight and slow, so they can get by with something like 15 kWh per 100 miles. Because travel distances are presumably small, we can probably keep within 10 miles per day, requiring 1.5 kWh of input per day. The battery is usually something like 5 kWh, so can store three days’ worth right in the cart. At an average of five full-sun hours per day, we need 300 W of generating capacity, which we can achieve with 2 square meters of 15% efficient PV panel. Hey! This could work: self-contained, self-powered transport. Plug it in only when weather conspires against you. And unlike unicorns, I’ve seen one of these beasts tooling around the UCSD campus!"

I'd say that falls under "re-think what a 'car' is"

pheller wrote: Hey, perhaps one advantage to developing more bike paths could be that maybe in the future we'll have little solar-roofed cars that can only travel at 25mph tops, but get their own special roads devoid of truck traffic and larger vehicles.

Or, you know, not need cars to go everywhere.

Like the golf cart example... if you go less than 10 miles/day, you only need a car when you need to carry stuff. Moving yourself around is easier/cheaper/faster on a bicycle.

ProDarwin wrote:

pheller wrote: Hey, perhaps one advantage to developing more bike paths could be that maybe in the future we'll have little solar-roofed cars that can only travel at 25mph tops, but get their own special roads devoid of truck traffic and larger vehicles.

Or, you know, not need cars to go everywhere.

Or better yet, get over vestigial Taylorist attitudes and embrace telecommuting. I think a good fraction of the population is showing up for jobs that could be done from home.

Why put the solar panel on the roof when it could be on the road?

Sky_Render wrote: I'm an EE by trade, and I was just having this discussion with a coworker. EVs are cool. I'd be rocking a Tesla right now if I could afford it. But the electric grid is woefully unprepared for the widespread adoption of EVs.

My degree says EE. :) I don't see it. My (old) electric hot water heater used more electricity than my e-golf does every day to drive 20-40 miles. It draws 1500w for 4-8hrs in the evening. Between a gas hot water heater and finally going mostly-in with CFLs and LEDs in my house, my electricity consumption is down ~200kWh/mo, even with an EV.

And true "widespread adoption" will take decades. With 260 million registered vehicles in the US, if every vehicle sold in the US was electric starting now, it would still take 10 years before most of the cars on the road were electric. Widespread adoption of central AC was a far greater impact than EVs will be.

oldopelguy wrote: Why put the solar panel on the roof when it could be on the road?

Infrastructure costs and shading by traffic are a couple of reasons that come to mind.

GameboyRMH wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

pheller wrote: Hey, perhaps one advantage to developing more bike paths could be that maybe in the future we'll have little solar-roofed cars that can only travel at 25mph tops, but get their own special roads devoid of truck traffic and larger vehicles.

Or, you know, not need cars to go everywhere.

Or better yet, get over vestigial Taylorist attitudes and embrace telecommuting. I think a good fraction of the population is showing up for jobs that could be done from home.

I'd like to see the tech adoption at companies get better before this. The tech certainly exists, but I really couldn't work from home the way we are set up now.