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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Finally lost my mind - Honda or Hyunda for new car

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Nov. 16, 2009 2:32 p.m. nocones Reader

slefain wrote:

Wow, Mitsu now has a warranty to rival Hyundia and Kia. Very interesting.

And a quality reputation to rival them also!!

Personally I had a 05 Accent that Fell appart in 36K miles I needed a new Transmission at 16K and when I got rid of it at 36K it had all the same symptoms that caused it to get the first transmission. I had a friend that has a 2000ish Elantra that has had a few cats put in it. Likewise I've heard stories of people with great success with Hyundai/VW/KIA/Mitsu/Dodge/etc. and With bad Honda/toyota/lexus/mazda/etc. stories.

Personally my theory is marketing sells new cars and Resale value tells you long term what a cars worth. If you have a car that has terrible resale it probably has more people have problems and become long term dissatisfied with the car than those that keep them relative to another car. Would you really ignore long term satisfaction/resale if you intent to drive the car into the ground. Resale shows you how much a car is worth down the road, and it takes longer for a Honda Civic/Toyota Corrola to be worth <1K than it does for a Hyundai elantra and WAY longer than a Hyundai Accent. That's just a fact. So you may pay a little more up front but it's going to statistically last longer and be worth more longer than a Hyundai. And this is Still true. When it changes then the situation will be different. And for sure Hyundai has been making some exciting products that do seem to be holding resale better than ever before. I'd just say they are not quite there yet. If trends continue Hyundai will probably be in a much better position from a public perception standpoint when there next generation of cars come out.

The mazda 5 keeps getting brought up, but I've always felt due to the gas mileage you'd be better off with a off-lease or CPO Mini-van than a mazda 5. What's the real world MPG on one? Are they really better than they look to where they are worth it? I know the Honda/Toyota/etc. mini's are getting real world 26-27mpg. I have a co-worker that claims 30 in his 05 Honda. How do the Mazda 5's really do?
Nov. 16, 2009 2:59 p.m. slefain Dork

Alright, maybe this would open things up a bit. I get X-plan pricing from Ford. The Escape could fit the bill, but the same 3/36 warranty as everyone else.
Nov. 16, 2009 3:04 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

I wouldn't touch an Escape. I know noone that is happy with it. The worst case was 2 trans and an engine in under 100k.
Nov. 16, 2009 3:56 p.m. slefain Dork

nocones wrote:

slefain wrote:

Wow, Mitsu now has a warranty to rival Hyundia and Kia. Very interesting.

And a quality reputation to rival them also!!

Personally I had a 05 Accent that Fell appart in 36K miles I needed a new Transmission at 16K and when I got rid of it at 36K it had all the same symptoms that caused it to get the first transmission. I had a friend that has a 2000ish Elantra that has had a few cats put in it. Likewise I've heard stories of people with great success with Hyundai/VW/KIA/Mitsu/Dodge/etc. and With bad Honda/toyota/lexus/mazda/etc. stories.

Did you try to get any of the problems fixed under the warranty? At 36k you should have still had coverage for almost anything that goes wrong.
Nov. 16, 2009 4:28 p.m. nocones Reader

I did, and they did. I was guilty of causing the problem until proven innocent though. I had to have the regional manager come in an determine that I hadn't abused the car to cover it. Which means I had to agree to pay to dissasemble it and If they decided it was their fault they would cover it. They (the dealer/hyundai) had me so convinced that they would NOT cover it that I had found a junkyard trans and was just going to swap it myself but finally decided to roll the dice. The whole experience was terrible. And it took 2.5 weeks on top of it. I was told the regional warranty manager made the statement that in his eyes putting 18K miles on a car in 6 months is Abuse. I'd really rather buy a reliable car that NEVER needs warranty work, than one that the company depends on a 100K mile warranty to sell the car. This is why it was replaced with a Mazda 3 that needed no work in 60K miles and after a 30K mile fling with an MKV GTI now a Pontiac Vibe (toyota matrix) that has proven to be realiable on the internets and so far I've had no problems with (the car has 44K bought at 32K).
Nov. 16, 2009 4:37 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

^ And I've had the 100% opposite experience. With 3 cars personally. My first warranty work on the Elantra was a recall for a brake line clip. I had a main cat replaced at 99k for a crack (recall). I've replaced suspension for handling, clutches because of my abuse, tires and brakes.
Nov. 16, 2009 4:51 p.m. nocones Reader

So you had two recall repairs done? I'm confident they would of done any recall work with no issues. Hell I took a 1986 Pontiac Fiero in for recall work in 2002. Probably a lot of my hyundai experience was dealer specific. It's a VERY good sign that you've really needed no work on your 3 Hyundai. I'm just reporting my experience, again I state, re-sale values give you an indication of the NON person specific experiences of the car buying public. If a car has a low resale value it's because it is un-desireable. No matter how Good a car has been to you, or me, or anyone, the fact is that if that car has a low re-sale value overall people have had a worse than average owner experience for whatever reason. Usually people buy a car because they like it, so the below average owner experience is usually due to higher than expected maintenance costs, and lower than expected durability. At least that's How I look at it.
Nov. 16, 2009 5:05 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

I think you;re wrong personally. What is the first thing that pops into the buying public's mind when you say "Hyundai"? The 1987 Excel. POS, throw away car that was just terrible, but it was cheap. Why? Because the automitive press has reinforced that image over and over for 20 years.

Now, don't get me wrong. Hyundai's no saint. They built super cheap, super terrible Mitsu knockoffs for years.Around 1998 they started to get their act together and started producing some decent cars. By 2002 they were building (imo) as good of a car as honduh and yoduh in their Elantra. In fact, it's why I bought mine. It's roomier, quieter, faster and has been dead reliable for 115k miles and 7.5 years of my utter abuse. But building an equal doesn't cut it after you'vebeen the laughing stock for so long. They now have to build BETTER cars (which they're doing) to make an impact on that stereotype.

IMO, resale is status. You SHOULD drive a honda because they make better cars. So people buy them. Then they find out they need 3 transmissions in 100k miles. Or eGR valves every 30k.....rattles, squeaks.... but it's ok because it's a "Better car". When in reality it's not. Why else would someone buy a Lexus ES300 for $33k when the toyota camry right next to it looks identical and cost $10k less? Status. They're told what to believe and they do it.

IMO, that's what drives resale.

Another thing... since you got me started... Which numbskull came up with resale? A car is a money loser. The ONLY way you can ever recoup your losses with a car is to buy it, and run it as long as it's financially feasible, so you don;t have a car payment. Trading up every couple years just kills you financially. You're always making a car payment, you never recoupe your investment and you come out behind. Why?
Nov. 17, 2009 7:45 a.m. tuna55 Reader

Keep in mind that the length of warranty doesn't necessarily dictate how easily that warranty will be accessible, nor how long the vehicle will actually be in the shop. If it were me, I'd be looking for a used, certified type car because I cannot afford to lump sum a new car, and because something two years old is half the cost with all of the reliability - even more depending on the make and model and what the factory screwed up.
Nov. 17, 2009 7:47 a.m. Don49 New Reader

We bought an 06 Sante Fe and now have over 115k on it. Trouble free and still on the original tires.For convenience all service is done at the dealer since it's the wife's daily driver. We have had a few problems all covered by warranty and a loaner provided when the car was kept overnight. You can't go wrong with the Sante Fe. Just for the record, I am a big Honda fan and have an S2000 for my fun car, so no anti honda predjudice here.
Nov. 17, 2009 8:37 a.m. slefain Dork

nocones wrote:

I was told the regional warranty manager made the statement that in his eyes putting 18K miles on a car in 6 months is Abuse.

You put almost 100 miles a day on a car? I'd be surprised if my wife puts 100 miles on a car in a week. If you weren't following the severe service schedule then yeah, I'd say it was abused. I think you expected a little too much out of a low priced car.

I have looked at CPO cars, they give 12/12,000 on the warranty at best. That sucks. With how complicated the newer cars are it is easy to blow a grand on just finding a problem much less fixing one.

Bobzilla wrote:

IMO, resale is status. You SHOULD drive a honda because they make better cars. So people buy them. Then they find out they need 3 transmissions in 100k miles. Or eGR valves every 30k.....rattles, squeaks.... but it's ok because it's a "Better car". When in reality it's not. Why else would someone buy a Lexus ES300 for $33k when the toyota camry right next to it looks identical and cost $10k less? Status. They're told what to believe and they do it.

I'm spooked by Honda's little problems that don't go away. Did they ever get their automatic transmission to stop dying at 60k? The CR-V, Accord and TL all had the same problems with their A/T and Honda has never really fixed it. The Hondas have better resale but I agree with Bobzilla, "it is a Honda, of course it is a great car" has carried Honda along for too many years.

I am intrigued with Mazda, one of the best vehicles I ever had was an '86 B2000, but I think the Mazda of back then is not the Mazda of today.
Nov. 17, 2009 8:55 a.m. slefain Dork

Well I think I just added the Kia Rondo to the list:

http://www.insideline.com/kia/rondo/2007/long-term-test-2007-kia-rondo.html

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/longterm/kiarondo08.shtml
Nov. 17, 2009 9:37 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

As for the4 honda transmission issue: The 4 a week we do here tells me no, they haven't.

Rondo is OK, but the 4cyl is too small for the car, the 2.7L is a dinosaur with a terrible appetite for fuel.... so if you don't mind it being sluggish, then it's fine.

I like the Elantra Touring (more wagon than anything else) and the 34mpg is nice too. What about the new GMC cute ute and it's 32mpg?
Nov. 17, 2009 9:49 a.m. nocones Reader

slefain wrote:

You put almost 100 miles a day on a car? I'd be surprised if my wife puts 100 miles on a car in a week. If you weren't following the severe service schedule then yeah, I'd say it was abused. I think you expected a little too much out of a low priced car.

I was driving from Appleton, WI to Champaign, IL once a week for school. I'd come home (appleton) on Friday and head down on Sunday. Add in the driving I had to do during the week and I was putting ~1200miles a week on the car. It got oil changed every 3 weeks, and I followed everything else the service schedule required.

It sounds like you are getting a fair amount people saying Hyundai is great, and the 10 year warranty is important to you so I'd probably go that direction. No one really makes an aweful car anymore. I more than likely just got a bad Accent. I don't think you can go wrong buying a New car today. I would just caution that a NEW car is a large purchase and I would make certain you are buying EXACTLY what your needs require. Given that you plan to have another kid, I think the Rondo or a Mini-van would be a beter choice than a SUV, but ultimately the choice is yours.

As a Data point on modern Mazdas, I had a Mazda 3i sedan that I put 60K trouble free miles on. It never went in for anything other than Oil changes. However I have a friend with a Mazda 3 Hatchback that has a wierd electrical issue with the radio. But that is the only problem it has had and it has 110K miles on it.

Good luck!
Nov. 17, 2009 9:51 a.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork

My only concern on buying based on warranty is, am I going to have to do battle to get warranty work performed?
Nov. 17, 2009 9:55 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

nocones wrote:

I would just caution that a NEW car is a large purchase and I would make certain you are buying EXACTLY what your needs require.

Brought this out for the sheer truth. It seems many people don't pay attention to this detail anymore when purchasing a car. It's likethey get caught up in the emotional "bigger is better" mentality that they forget what it was they were really trying to buy.
Nov. 17, 2009 10:01 a.m. Datsun1500 Dork

Buy a 2009 Honda Certified with a few thousand miles on it. That extends the bumper to bumper warranty to 4 years and 48K miles and the powertrain warranty to 7 years, 100K miles.

You do realize Kia and Hyundai are the same comany right?

Resale value does not mean much if you are going to drive the car into the ground as long as you never get into an accident bad enough to total the car. Resale value does come into play if someone hits your 2 year old Hyundai and you get 1/2 of what you paid for it....
Nov. 17, 2009 10:08 a.m. slefain Dork

nocones wrote:

slefain wrote:

You put almost 100 miles a day on a car? I'd be surprised if my wife puts 100 miles on a car in a week. If you weren't following the severe service schedule then yeah, I'd say it was abused. I think you expected a little too much out of a low priced car.

I was driving from Appleton, WI to Champaign, IL once a week for school. I'd come home (appleton) on Friday and head down on Sunday. Add in the driving I had to do during the week and I was putting ~1200miles a week on the car. It got oil changed every 3 weeks, and I followed everything else the service schedule required.

It sounds like you are getting a fair amount people saying Hyundai is great, and the 10 year warranty is important to you so I'd probably go that direction. No one really makes an aweful car anymore. I more than likely just got a bad Accent. I don't think you can go wrong buying a New car today. I would just caution that a NEW car is a large purchase and I would make certain you are buying EXACTLY what your needs require. Given that you plan to have another kid, I think the Rondo or a Mini-van would be a beter choice than a SUV, but ultimately the choice is yours.

As a Data point on modern Mazdas, I had a Mazda 3i sedan that I put 60K trouble free miles on. It never went in for anything other than Oil changes. However I have a friend with a Mazda 3 Hatchback that has a wierd electrical issue with the radio. But that is the only problem it has had and it has 110K miles on it.

Good luck!

My friend Richie Maahs is from Appleton (holds hand up and points to the base of the pinky finger, left side).

My wife refuses to have a minivan, but a "faux" minivan like a Mazda5 or Rondo would be great.

My cousin has a 3 and loves it, I just keep looking at the available options vs price. The long term reviews I'm reading on the Rondo all point to a solid vehicle.

You hit the nail on the head. Car shopping with the family in mind is a whole different ballgame. On of the Rondo comments I read was "it gets my family around safely and effectively, nothing more, nothing less". That's pretty much what I am looking for. And like I said before I want to make it as easy as possible for my wife to wrangle children by herself. If she doesn't have to wrestle a stroller out of a trunk then that is one less problem in her day (and if you haven't seen a mother who has had one thing too many go wrong, you have NEVER seen a melt down the likes of before).
Nov. 17, 2009 11:41 a.m. 96DXCivic HalfDork

One of my friends has a Santa Fe. Stay away!!!!!!! He is on his 3 transmission in 60k miles.
Nov. 17, 2009 11:42 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

What year? 06-up, or 01-05. Big difference in the two.

1 problem with most hyundai trans failures: Wrong fluid. People take them to Jiffylube/joes garage and they use "compatible" fluid. Doesn't work. A dex III fluid change will last 3k miles before the trans is done. Eats the trans internally. So if you own one, do your own trans drain/fills or take it to the dealer. Everyone else screws them up. Literally.
Nov. 17, 2009 12:30 p.m. pigeon HalfDork

Datsun1500 wrote:

Buy a 2009 Honda Certified with a few thousand miles on it. That extends the bumper to bumper warranty to 4 years and 48K miles and the powertrain warranty to 7 years, 100K miles.

Depends highly on the dealer you're dealing with. My "Certified" Honda Accord was forced (by me) to be bought back by the dealer as a lemon when they flat refused to deal with a dangerous front end shimmy. Even then the dealer refused to abide by the arbitration ruling until the day before the state was going to pull their dealer license.

The nice thing about CPO BMWs (here I go again...) is the dealer experience is light years better than Honda/Toyota/Hyundai - I get treated with respect and problems get fixed, no questions asked. And you get way more car for your money. Let some other sucker pay the first 40-50% in depreciation over the first 2 years of ownership, then get a great 2-3 year old car at a great discount.
Nov. 17, 2009 12:39 p.m. pigeon HalfDork

Here's a CPO 2007 530xiT for you not too far away, asking price is 35k but I bet you could get it for 31k out the door. No good way to link to it but plug this VIN into the CPO search at bmwusa.com : WBANN73567B799284 Titanium Grey over black leather, 36k miles, Cold Weather, Premium, Sport packages (loaded), PDC, Sirius radio, AWD, and this might even be a 6-speed stick! It would make a heck of a mommymobile! Plus, get 0.9% financing if you want to finance and BMW picks up your first two payments. Not a salesman, just a BMW fanboi
Nov. 17, 2009 12:42 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

BMW's are nice, but I can't afford to maintain one. $100 oil changes aren't economical to me.
Nov. 17, 2009 1:13 p.m. slefain Dork

pigeon wrote:

Here's a CPO 2007 530xiT for you not too far away, asking price is 35k but I bet you could get it for 31k out the door. No good way to link to it but plug this VIN into the CPO search at bmwusa.com : WBANN73567B799284 Titanium Grey over black leather, 36k miles, Cold Weather, Premium, Sport packages (loaded), PDC, Sirius radio, AWD, and this might even be a 6-speed stick! It would make a heck of a mommymobile! Plus, get 0.9% financing if you want to finance and BMW picks up your first two payments. Not a salesman, just a BMW fanboi

As much as I'd like a Beemer, that's about $10k more than my budget.
Nov. 17, 2009 1:39 p.m. mad_machine PowerDork

I had one issue with my 1988 Excel (ate the input shaft on the trans at 155,000 miles) and none with my 1999 Tiburon. Hyundai makes a good and underrated car

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