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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Finally lost my mind - Honda or Hyunda for new car

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Nov. 17, 2009 2:04 p.m. pigeon HalfDork

slefain wrote:

pigeon wrote:

Here's a CPO 2007 530xiT for you not too far away, asking price is 35k but I bet you could get it for 31k out the door. No good way to link to it but plug this VIN into the CPO search at bmwusa.com : WBANN73567B799284 Titanium Grey over black leather, 36k miles, Cold Weather, Premium, Sport packages (loaded), PDC, Sirius radio, AWD, and this might even be a 6-speed stick! It would make a heck of a mommymobile! Plus, get 0.9% financing if you want to finance and BMW picks up your first two payments. Not a salesman, just a BMW fanboi

As much as I'd like a Beemer, that's about $10k more than my budget.

That's what the 0.9% financing is for LOL

Seriously, I'd be looking at Chrysler Town & Country minivans if I were you. Never underestimate the need to pack ungodly amounts of kid stuff into a car, and real world transaction prices on a T&C Touring model are likely right in your ballpark despite the $28k sticker. Mucho vehicle for the dollar.
Nov. 17, 2009 2:20 p.m. slefain Dork

pigeon wrote:

slefain wrote:

pigeon wrote:

Here's a CPO 2007 530xiT for you not too far away, asking price is 35k but I bet you could get it for 31k out the door. No good way to link to it but plug this VIN into the CPO search at bmwusa.com : WBANN73567B799284 Titanium Grey over black leather, 36k miles, Cold Weather, Premium, Sport packages (loaded), PDC, Sirius radio, AWD, and this might even be a 6-speed stick! It would make a heck of a mommymobile! Plus, get 0.9% financing if you want to finance and BMW picks up your first two payments. Not a salesman, just a BMW fanboi

As much as I'd like a Beemer, that's about $10k more than my budget.

That's what the 0.9% financing is for LOL

Seriously, I'd be looking at Chrysler Town & Country minivans if I were you. Never underestimate the need to pack ungodly amounts of kid stuff into a car, and real world transaction prices on a T&C Touring model are likely right in your ballpark despite the $28k sticker. Mucho vehicle for the dollar.

Ah, you said the "m" word. There is no way my wife is going to drive a minivan (at least not yet). It will be tough convincing her the Rondo isn't a minivan. In 10 years when the kids are bigger she might reconsider her stance.
Nov. 17, 2009 2:30 p.m. mad_machine PowerDork

what is so wrong with a Minivan? Short of a full size van or a box truck. there is NO better way to move your crap
Nov. 17, 2009 2:56 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

I think the key word everyone her has seemed to miss: "WIFE". Mine is the same way. There;s no way a minivan would ever find it's way into our garage. Ever. Luckily our kids have 4 legs and tails so the CrewCab GMC is the good option. My wife is more opposed to a wagon than a minivan. I love wagons.
Nov. 17, 2009 3:17 p.m. Lesley SuperDork

If you're really stuck on Honda, have you looked at the Crosstour? Not tall and tippy like an SUV, but with same platform as the CRV and priced between it and the Pilot. Kinda like a wagon hatch, with AWD.
Nov. 17, 2009 3:27 p.m. slefain Dork

Lesley wrote:

If you're really stuck on Honda, have you looked at the Crosstour? Not tall and tippy like an SUV, but with same platform as the CRV and priced between it and the Pilot. Kinda like a wagon hatch, with AWD.

I like the CrossTour, but it is out of our price range. I only have $20k to spend. My brother has a Pilot and he loves it, but once again the starting price is out of my range.

My wife LOVES the Jetta TDI SportWagon. She keeps coming back to it but I veto it every time. That does let me know that she likes wagons though. Too bad the Magnum is dead (and stupidly overpriced on the used market).
Nov. 17, 2009 3:38 p.m. 81gtv6 Reader

I am kind of in the same boat. With a 3rd "surprise" kid on the way we need something with 3 rows of seats but my wife is dead set against a minivan. We are looking at an R Class Merc. You can get one of the unloved crossovers for mid to low 20s and it looks like there is more space behind the back row of seats than in most vehicals like it.
Nov. 17, 2009 4:13 p.m. spitfirebill Dork

Well you didn't ask about the Kia, but my wife's best friend has the comparable Kia and has done nothing more than oil changes in the 100k miles she has put on it. She thinks she is in heaven because the previous car was a Grand Cherokee (from hell).
Nov. 17, 2009 4:23 p.m. slefain Dork

spitfirebill wrote:

Well you didn't ask about the Kia, but my wife's best friend has the comparable Kia and has done nothing more than oil changes in the 100k miles she has put on it. She thinks she is in heaven because the previous car was a Grand Cherokee (from hell).

Well the Kia Rondo is on my list to drive, and the Sorrento does have our interest. Good to know she's had good things. What year is hers?
Nov. 17, 2009 5:59 p.m. Datsun1500 Dork

slefain wrote:

I like the CrossTour, but it is out of our price range. I only have $20k to spend. My brother has a Pilot and he loves it, but once again the starting price is out of my range.

OK so now we know the reason you are leaning towards the Hyundai/Kia. The CRV is more than you want to spend and the Hyundai is not. It's OK, there is no reason to debate on quality, warranty, size, etc. If the Honda is more than you want to spend, buy the Hyundai/Kia.

It amazes me how many people say they bought the Hyundai because it is a good car, the warranty is better, etc. yet no one says they bought it because it is cheaper.

You will buy the one that fits YOUR budget, if that is not the Honda or Toyota that's fine, it's your money spend it on what you want. The best advice you have gotten is to let her drive a few and see what she wants, If you spend $20K on anything I would make sure it is something she will be happy with for awhile. It would suck to buy a Santa Fe and in 3 years she wants a CRV or vice versa.

As far as kid stuff goes, the Santa Fe looks like it would hold more. How much are Xterras?
Nov. 17, 2009 7:56 p.m. mad_machine PowerDork

no harm in saying you bought a Hyundai because it is cheaper. Why worry when you can get 95% of the refinement, 120% of the warrenty, and pay 75% of the price of the Honda and Toyota?

That is a win right there
Nov. 17, 2009 8:00 p.m. VanillaSky Reader

I want to interject my opinion here. My wife and I bought a leftover Saturn Astra because we expect to need the room for kids. We don't expect it to be big enough for 2 kids. At that point, we'd buy a minivan.

Buy a car that has more than you think you need. The Rondo sounds like a good car. It seems like a first gen Odyssey to me. The build quality in the Kias I've been around while shopping this past summer seems up to par of the lat 90's Hondas. I say 90's because I feel quality started to slip in the early 2000s.

Test drive everything. Bring the kids along. I always brought my brother along to get a third party opinion, which helped greatly. He'd always pick up on something that would bother me later on, like how whatever car makes him feel a little seasick in the back seat, or how a bike won't fit into the hatch. It made elimination go faster.
Nov. 17, 2009 8:06 p.m. f86sabjf New Reader

our 07Hyundai Elantra has cost me one saturday morning due to an o2 sensor that was under warranty. I cant ask much more out of it. Now it has 58,000 and everything is still quiet like a new car. We will buy another one when the time comes.
Nov. 17, 2009 9:29 p.m. Datsun1500 Dork

mad_machine wrote:

no harm in saying you bought a Hyundai because it is cheaper. Why worry when you can get 95% of the refinement, 120% of the warrenty, and pay 75% of the price of the Honda and Toyota?

That is a win right there

But people don't say they got it because it was cheaper. Most people don't realize how close they are in price now. You say 75% of the price, let's see:

2009 Honda CRV LX (2WD Automatic, cloth interior) MSRP 21955, invoice 20488. Advertised on local websites for $20250

2009 Hyundai Santa Fe GLS (2WD Automatic, cloth interior) MSRP $23745, invoice $22846, rebate $2000 so invoice minus rebate is $20846. All of the ones on local websites have a $750 popular equipment package and they are $21,100 so without the package (if you can find one) they would be $20,350

$100 more for the Hyundai does not equal 25% off. The MSRP of the Hyundai is more, even after rebate it is only $200 less.

I bring this up because in 2007 I shopped a Honda Odyssey and an Hyundai Entourage with the same equipment. The Hyundai had a MSRP that was $750 more and after getting both dealers down to a reasonable price the Odyssey was less than the Hyundai. At this point the value of the 2007 Odyssey is more than a 2007 Entourage, so I paid less and have a better resale value.

That's a win right there.

Actually after looking at these numbers I would be surprised if the original poster can get a Santa Fe for his $20,000 budget. The cheapest I found was $21,100.
Nov. 18, 2009 7:28 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

But the Sante Fe is a larger vehicle than the CR-V. I don't get the comparison between the two at all. If you want to compare apples to apples compare it to the Tucson. The Sante Fe is a "tweener", between a CR-V and a Pilot. So you're getting more car for $100 more. Look at cargo volume from their respective sites... 142 for the Sante Fe and 108 for the CRV.

That is a win right there. But hondahumpers don't care about facts. They only care about the name brand. They don't care about the slumping quality, the rising pricesm, the dropping fuel economy or the wonder transmissions they can't seem to get right after 10 years.
Nov. 18, 2009 7:56 a.m. Datsun1500 Dork

I did not pick CRV vs Santa Fe, the original poster did. Let's look at a Tucson.

2009 Tucson GLS (Auto, 2WD, cloth) Base MSRP: 20720, Invoice 20075, rebate 1000. $19,100 if you can find one, the lowest MSRP around here is 22590. So if you can find one it is $1100 cheaper.

When I do math and someone says it is 75% of the cost I would think if the CRV is $20250 the Tucson would be $15200. Must be new math....

You say Hondas are pricey but see nothing wrong with Hyundais at the same price? If a CRV is overpriced at $21955, isn't a Tucson overpriced at $20720?

I am not a Honda fanboi, I had a Caravan catch fire, so I figured I would not go that route again and when I compared a Honda to a Hyundai, the Honda won. The Toyota Sienna was not even the ballpark.
Nov. 18, 2009 8:44 a.m. slefain Dork

I was looking at the offerings from Honda that I can afford. The Pilot is too much, so the CR-V was in my price range. I have $20k to spend or so, that just keeps the conversation closer to $20k than $30k for the "for just a few grand more" argument. I can swing $22k.

The Tucson is too small, so I chose the Santa Fe. I also looked at the Sorrento, which is also acceptable. And the one I'm really interested in seeing for myself is the Rondo.

I'm pricing the overall package of features, warranty, and size. My wife would prefer to not have a stripped down rental car refugee, so trying to get a few nice things in the package is part of my dilemma.

The biggest thing I'm noticing in all of the non-hulking car-based SUVs is the actual storage space behind the rear seats. I'm trying to find a vehicle with depth, not just height. That is why something like a Kia Soul or Honda Fit is not in the running.

The only reason I'm looking at new cars at all is the fact that used car pricing is downright stupid high right now. On some of the cars I am looking at the only difference between new and used pricing is $2-3k. Might as well pony up the extra $ and get the full warranty and extra miles for yourself. I've been combing the used car marking for 8 months now and pricing is not coming down. Wholesale pricing is even stupider. Used wholesale prices are at what private party should be right now. But trade in value is in the toilet, imagine that.
Nov. 18, 2009 9:15 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

Datsun1500 wrote:

I did not pick CRV vs Santa Fe, the original poster did. Let's look at a Tucson.

2009 Tucson GLS (Auto, 2WD, cloth) Base MSRP: 20720, Invoice 20075, rebate 1000. $19,100 if you can find one, the lowest MSRP around here is 22590. So if you can find one it is $1100 cheaper.

When I do math and someone says it is 75% of the cost I would think if the CRV is $20250 the Tucson would be $15200. Must be new math....

You say Hondas are pricey but see nothing wrong with Hyundais at the same price? If a CRV is overpriced at $21955, isn't a Tucson overpriced at $20720?

I am not a Honda fanboi, I had a Caravan catch fire, so I figured I would not go that route again and when I compared a Honda to a Hyundai, the Honda won. The Toyota Sienna was not even the ballpark.

Some of your numbers are a little off. Base GLS $19,995 + 750freight - 1,000 rebate= 19740, so invoice would be closer to 19,000. That's $3k difference and less warranty. There's 3 of those across the street from me. Also offering an additional $1000 off because they're 09's, that put's it $4k less which makes it about 80% the price. That's dang close to 75% the price in my book.
Nov. 18, 2009 9:39 a.m. Datsun1500 Dork

How are my numbers off? I say MSRP is 20720, you say 20745. I say invoice is 20075-1000 rebate for 19,100 you say invoice is closer to 19,000. They look pretty right on to me.

That being said, you say at $19K it is a $3K swing. Since I can buy a CRV for $20250, I say it is a $1250 swing. $20,250-$19000= 1250 right? An additional $1000 off to make it $18,000 (your numbers) makes it a $2250 swing, still not 80%.....

Public school?
Nov. 18, 2009 10:04 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

Let me trythis again:

Datsun1500 wrote:

You say Hondas are pricey but see nothing wrong with Hyundais at the same price? If a CRV is overpriced at $21955, isn't a Tucson overpriced at $20720?

Your numbers. When I pointed out that the Tucson is closer to $19k (instead of 20,720) and the extra grand off puts it about $18k.

Let me guess, snooty private school where they teach you everyone else is inferior?
Nov. 18, 2009 10:16 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

For the OP:

http://autos.yahoo.com/car-compare/features/;_ylt=AsDgJJg4khpreVw5ZoyBXQT0_a1_;_yl...
Nov. 18, 2009 10:38 a.m. slefain Dork

Bobzilla wrote:

For the OP:

http://autos.yahoo.com/car-compare/features/;_ylt=AsDgJJg4khpreVw5ZoyBXQT0_a1_;_yl...

Interesting, when you compare the 5-year ownership cost of the CR-V and the Santa Fe with 10k a year driving, the CR-V prices at $33,677 and the Santa Fe prices at $30,088. Depreciation is dead even at only a $600 difference. And as I expected the Rondo came in at $3k cheaper overall even for the high zoot model.

Jeez, they are offering $4k off Sorentos right now. Gas mpg sucks though.
Nov. 18, 2009 11:37 a.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

The older Sorento's were still body on frame and a solid rear axle. They are beefy, and that's why they suck the gas.
Nov. 18, 2009 2:37 p.m. Datsun1500 Dork

Bobzilla wrote:

Your numbers. When I pointed out that the Tucson is closer to $19k (instead of 20,720) and the extra grand off puts it about $18k.

No, my numbers were MSRP to MSRP or invoice to invoice. Your numbers were MSRP to invoice.
Let me guess, snooty private school where they teach you everyone else is inferior?

No private school here, but they did teach me to comprehend what I was reading. Comparing the MSRP of the Honda to the invoice of the Hyundai and thinking you got a deal is just plain bad math.

MSRP to MSRP or Invoice to Invoice, the Hyundai is not much less than the Honda.
Nov. 18, 2009 2:47 p.m. Bobzilla HalfDork

Sorry, 2-3k is a lot to any of us. Plus more warranty and a lower cost of ownership over the long haul so that 3k turns into 6-7k.... but just to make you feel better 19740 compared to 21995 is 2255. So mspr to msrp is 11% change. So you get same car for 2255 less and you get more warranty adn a lower cost of ownership. Plus, no issues with honda trans and EGR's clogging every 40k.

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