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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Ford Taurus Pre-Dents

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July 7, 2009 2:33 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

maroon92 wrote:

Camry/Accord = Midsize...well, what passes for midsize these days.

And Camry/Accord = Fusion/Milan, not Taurus.

Taurus = Full Size!

= Avelon and nothing that Honda makes.

Here's the deal, one of the core problems with Ford and GM is that the preception is that you get a deep discount for buying our products. While that has survived for many years, it's also lead to 0 profits on most cars sold in the US. So now we match the car with the market segment that can sustain us- at a rate that may not be the volumes that we used to sell Tauruses at- that's ok, as long as we make money. Besides, the Fusion is head to head with Accord/Camry.

This is another move to change preceptions. So far, noting that the past 3 months, Ford has outsold Toyota in the US, it seems as if preceptions have started to shift (especially for the Fusion). Hopefully, this new Taurus and SHO continue to shift that general preception.

BTW, you may want to look at actual prices for equal sized Lexus, Infinity, and Acura models- they are in the Lincoln territory, not $25-$35K. The ES (which is smaller) STARTS at $35, the equal sized GS starts at $45k. The equal Toyota Avelon Starts at $27k and peaks at just over $35k.

So it appears that the Taurus is actually cheaper than the equivallent Toyota. Interesting that you are a marketing guy, and miss that.

Eric
July 7, 2009 2:43 p.m. RossD Reader

Do you want to know why the SHO starts at $37,170; read this review : "Launching it is easy: Hold your foot on the brake, raise the revs, and release the brake. It rips to 60 mph in 5.2 seconds, 0.2 second quicker than the V-10–powered Audi S6."

(FYI: Starting price for a Audi S6 is $75,900; more than twice that of SHO)
July 7, 2009 3:20 p.m. Lesley SuperDork

Alfadriver - yup, I was in NC. Drove the regular Taurus and the Sho. Guy named Arnie Muscat drove with me from the airport.
July 7, 2009 4:20 p.m. aussiesmg Dork
1. If the Taurus is priced at $25K and up, how is it $10K more than the opposition?
2. Further what are you actually comparing it to?
3. Are the prices you quote for the as tested Taurus compared against similarly optioned competitors vehicles?
It appears we have all come up with lower figures than you for the Taurus yet you are ignoring this and continuing to state the Taurus is $10K more.

The list prices on all advertised new car prices do not include options.
July 7, 2009 4:26 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

I do think it's odd that Taurus isn't an Accord / Camry fighter, as that is what the name says to me.
July 7, 2009 4:40 p.m. Wowak Dork

I think the new Taurus is pretty damn sharp.
July 7, 2009 5:42 p.m. wherethefmi Dork

The SHO is going to be a performance contender, GM had an answer to it with the G8 but they dumbly dropped it, maybe the Taurus being a sales success will inspire the return of the Caprice. Though I doubt it. The SHO is probably a reflash away from 400+ hp. Hey alfadriver how hard is the ECU going to be to crack.
July 7, 2009 6:20 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

DILYSI Dave wrote:

I do think it's odd that Taurus isn't an Accord / Camry fighter, as that is what the name says to me.

See, perception. I am not ignoring any pricing, I am talking about the Limited model going out the door at over $37,000 per Car & Driver. I checked Edmunds for comparison:

Acura TL: $34,000
BMW: 328i = $33,600
Audi A4 (2.0t) = $31,000
Infiniti G37 = $33,250
C300 Sport = $32,900

Those are blue-chip manufacturers offering 4-door sedans for the same or less than a Taurus. From a Marketing perspective, that is interesting. And compared to it's contemporaries:

300 Touring: $26,600
Charger SXT: $26,400
G8 = $28,250
Avalon XL = $27,845
Impala V6 = 25,055
Accord V6 = $26,605 (mid)
Camry V6 = $25,800 (mid)

That's about $10K more on average compared to the $37,000 quoted by C&D for a Limited. So there is the reason for the quote, perfectly legitimate. The perception to an average person looking at ads and articles could easily be that it is $10K more. That would be enough to keep a lot of people out of the dealership. See? No need to violate board etiquette and make the personal attacks, jeez.

HOWEVER
Edmunds also lists the 2010 Taurus Limited at $33,020 and the SHO at $37,000. Now that is more like it! If Edmunds is right and C&D is wrong, then Ford will have an unqualified success on their hands.
July 7, 2009 6:34 p.m. wherethefmi Dork

pinchvalve wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote:

I do think it's odd that Taurus isn't an Accord / Camry fighter, as that is what the name says to me.

See, perception. I am not ignoring any pricing, I am talking about the Limited model going out the door at over $37,000 per Car & Driver. I checked Edmunds for comparison:

Acura TL: $34,000 Mid sized BMW: 328i = $33,600 Small
Audi A4 (2.0t) = $31,000 Small Infiniti G37 = $33,250 Mid sized C300 Sport = $32,900 Small

Those are blue-chip manufacturers offering 4-door sedans for the same or less than a Taurus. From a Marketing perspective, that is interesting. And compared to it's contemporaries:

300 Touring: $26,600
Charger SXT: $26,400
G8 = $28,250
Avalon XL = $27,845
Impala V6 = 25,055
Accord V6 = $26,605 (mid)
Camry V6 = $25,800 (mid)

That's about $10K more on average compared to the $37,000 quoted by C&D for a Limited. So there is the reason for the quote, perfectly legitimate. The perception to an average person looking at ads and articles could easily be that it is $10K more. That would be enough to keep a lot of people out of the dealership. See? No need to violate board etiquette and make the personal attacks, jeez.

HOWEVER
Edmunds also lists the 2010 Taurus Limited at $33,020 and the SHO at $37,000. Now that is more like it! If Edmunds is right and C&D is wrong, then Ford will have an unqualified success on their hands.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/taurus/models/

SHO at 37,000, to fairly compare based on size and performance, look at new M5 prices, S8 prices, actually for the bimmer you'd probably have to look at a 7 series to compare on size, and with the mercs it'd be E class and up.
July 7, 2009 7:19 p.m. Datsun1500 HalfDork

pinchvalve wrote:

That's about $10K more on average compared to the $37,000 quoted by C&D for a Limited.

You are not comparing apples to apples. The cars you quote, Avalon XL, Accord LX, etc. ar cars with cloth interior, no navigation, heated seats, etc. while comparing them to a Taurus Limited which has those options. The Accord with the same options is $31K, The Avalon is $36K. The Audi A4, BMW 328, Infiniti G30, etc are much smaller cars. The 27K 300 is cloth interior, 6 Cyl. How much is the 300 with the same equipment? $37,800.
July 7, 2009 7:49 p.m. MitchellC HalfDork

DILYSI Dave wrote:

I do think it's odd that Taurus isn't an Accord / Camry fighter, as that is what the name says to me.

I was a much bigger fan of the Five Hundred name as well, but I guess brand recognition plays means more.
July 7, 2009 10:08 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork

yup, most americans had NO idea that Ford was even producing a car called the Five Hundred...the Freestyle was even worse, so now it is the Taurus X...
July 8, 2009 7:07 a.m. alfadriver HalfDork

DILYSI Dave wrote:

I do think it's odd that Taurus isn't an Accord / Camry fighter, as that is what the name says to me.

That's where the "breakdown" happens. When the 500 came out, it was very clear that the Fusion was the competitor with the Accord/Camry in terms of price point and very much size.

Mullaly didn't want to see the Taurus name go away, so it was revived for the 500 and now the second revision to that car.

In terms of size, the Taurus was never head to head with the Accord/Camry- only in volumes for a few years and price. But the price part was part of the reason we were killing ourselves with cars- you can't price a decent large car against a mid-sized car, so to price it against a C/D class car was a loosing proposition. Now that the car is more correct in price range, it makes the car structure here much more sustainable as a business.

Now you see why the Tuarus name was dropped in the first place. And since the Avelon's market seemed to indicate that the large sedan market wasn't all that large, that's another reason why the 500 wasn't pushed a lot harder- for fear of overextending in a market not that large. But now, it appears that the Avelon isn't exactly a market defining vehicle, so there's more to that segment that first glace. Hence, I think you'll see more of a push for the Taurus in the large sedan market.

This is a major attempt to get away from old preceptions, and toward new ones.

BTW, pinch- on the Avelon- you should look at Toyota's website for price ranges- since it has the Avelon starting at $27k and ending at a base $35k- both without options like what C&D had. www.toyota.com.

Again, it's amusing as a marketing guy that you expect Ford to put the Taurus into what you think are the market preceptions vs. putting into it's proper sized and priced market. But, hey, at least you don't work here.

E-
July 8, 2009 7:37 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Dork

wherethefmi wrote:

pinchvalve wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote:

I do think it's odd that Taurus isn't an Accord / Camry fighter, as that is what the name says to me.

See, perception. I am not ignoring any pricing, I am talking about the Limited model going out the door at over $37,000 per Car & Driver. I checked Edmunds for comparison:

Acura TL: $34,000 Mid sized BMW: 328i = $33,600 Small
Audi A4 (2.0t) = $31,000 Small Infiniti G37 = $33,250 Mid sized C300 Sport = $32,900 Small

Those are blue-chip manufacturers offering 4-door sedans for the same or less than a Taurus. From a Marketing perspective, that is interesting. And compared to it's contemporaries:

300 Touring: $26,600
Charger SXT: $26,400
G8 = $28,250
Avalon XL = $27,845
Impala V6 = 25,055
Accord V6 = $26,605 (mid)
Camry V6 = $25,800 (mid)

That's about $10K more on average compared to the $37,000 quoted by C&D for a Limited. So there is the reason for the quote, perfectly legitimate. The perception to an average person looking at ads and articles could easily be that it is $10K more. That would be enough to keep a lot of people out of the dealership. See? No need to violate board etiquette and make the personal attacks, jeez.

HOWEVER
Edmunds also lists the 2010 Taurus Limited at $33,020 and the SHO at $37,000. Now that is more like it! If Edmunds is right and C&D is wrong, then Ford will have an unqualified success on their hands.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/taurus/models/

SHO at 37,000, to fairly compare based on size and performance, look at new M5 prices, S8 prices, actually for the bimmer you'd probably have to look at a 7 series to compare on size, and with the mercs it'd be E class and up.

I don't think that anyone looking for something like an M5 or S8 would be cross-shopping a Taurus....
July 8, 2009 9:05 a.m. wherethefmi Dork

That wasn't my point, still an A8 or a 540 is going to be signifantly more than the SHO.
July 8, 2009 9:21 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Dork

wherethefmi wrote:

That wasn't my point, still an A8 or a 540 is going to be signifantly more than the SHO.

No arguments here.

Just mainly voicing my opinion that when i think of "ultimate motoring experience" or "cool full size car" i don't think Taurus of any trim level.

That being said, i like the SHO. If i had the money to buy one, i wouldn't, though.
July 8, 2009 1:59 p.m. Chris_V SuperDork

93celicaGT2 wrote:

wherethefmi wrote:

That wasn't my point, still an A8 or a 540 is going to be signifantly more than the SHO.

No arguments here.

Just mainly voicing my opinion that when i think of "ultimate motoring experience" or "cool full size car" i don't think Taurus of any trim level.

But that's exactly the OLD perception Ford has been working at changing. Simply put, people need to be a bit smarter and realize that this is NOT the old Taurus rental car.

And right now, it's obvious Ford is making the right moves. The press is responding, and the market is responding.

We've got $50k Mustangs racing off dealer lots, as well...
July 8, 2009 2:18 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork

another sign that Ford is moving forward, Ford has outsold Toyota for the last 3 months...

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