YES I SAID IT, RACING
Probably the most intense 5 minutes I've seen in quite some time. Awesome race. Shame for Kimi, because he was trying soooo hard, but in the end, the Ferrari ego pushed a bit too hard.
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Sept. 7, 2008 8:31 a.m. PHeller New Reader
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Sept. 7, 2008 2:21 p.m. NYG95GA Dork
That was some wild finish. I liked how Heidfeid showed 'em how it's done on that last lap; he was passing on the outside and making it look easy. He's my favorite in the wet.
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Sept. 7, 2008 3:55 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork
he was passing on the outside because he had inters (rain tires), and the others had primes. Heidfeld is slow, BMW may not make a place for him next year.
Yes, the last 5 minutes were AWESOME. unfortunate that Mr. Hamilton had to come away with the win, but exciting nonetheless.
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Sept. 7, 2008 4:22 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork
quick update,
Hamiltons win stripped by FIA for incorrect allowance of re-passing after cutting the busstop chicane. Massa awarded the win...for now.
McLaren has lodged an official appeal.
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Sept. 7, 2008 4:30 p.m. NYG95GA Dork
I just found out that Hamilton has been stripped of the win by the stewards, supposedly because an advantage he gained when cutting the chicane. The handed him a 25 second penalty, relagating him to P3.
This is total BS! He did straight line the chicane to avoid Kimi, and he did come out of the chicane in the lead, but he immediately lifted and let Kimi back ahead, as he knew he should. He then passed him fairly at le Source.
McLaren has obviously appealed this bogus ruling, and the F1 sites are afire with disbelief at this ridiculous turn of events.
Edit: duplicate post; I spent too much time typing mine. Perhaps I shold be fined 25 seconds..,
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Sept. 7, 2008 6:35 p.m. alfadriver Reader
So when Kimi doesn't let Masa by after turn one at the start.... hmm.
(you'll note, Kimi ran wide, and passed Philipe from the run off area. And lest we forget, Kimi does not get a black flag when parts are dangerously dangling, and Philipe does not get a penalty for his pit lane driving)
I guess I'm not all that bummed I'll miss next week's race when I'm travelling.
Eric
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Sept. 7, 2008 7:50 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork
conspiracy much?
seriously, Felipe's "dangerous pit driving" was actually Mr. Sutil's fault, mixed with bad communication.
as far as Kimi's dangling exhaust manifold, I agree, they should have made him come in to remove it, but they didn't.
going onto the runoff area does not give you a competitive advantage such that shortcutting a chicane would. Kimi covered the same distance as Felipe...if not more, therefore incurring no penalty.
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Sept. 7, 2008 8:55 p.m. jl1rp New Reader
It would not be F1 without the possibility of a conspiracy.
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Sept. 8, 2008 12:11 a.m. mpsii New Reader
Hamilton did lift and did let Kimi pass, negating any advantage... then Kimi hit Louis on the next turn. I say bollocks to the FIA ruling.
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Sept. 8, 2008 1:32 p.m. geowit Reader
I liked this quote:
"The Ferrari Intervention Association is there specifically to assist and abet the Scuderia whenever required."
Geo.
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Sept. 8, 2008 4:42 p.m. alfadriver Reader
maroon92 wrote:
conspiracy much?
seriously, Felipe's "dangerous pit driving" was actually Mr. Sutil's fault, mixed with bad communication.
Exactly how??? Sutil was minding his own busness going down the pits at the posted speed. There is no passing while driving in the pits, and he does not need to "give way" to the leaders in the pits.
100% Ferrari, and since Masa was driving, he should have been penalized.
But since it was Ferrari vs. Force India, we know who wins that. I mean how could Kimi be so incompetent to miss his braking point in Monaco. Alas, it was a "racing incident" w/o any repurcussions.
What is it with Ferrari- people think they have no blame in anything.
Oh, and how does going off road help Kimi- he can accelerate with more room, since he does not have to contend with traffic. Totally unfair advantage. Off track is off track- a pass made from there is still off track.
I used to root for Ferrari. Then I tolerated them, now I'm beginning to hate them.
Eric
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Sept. 8, 2008 4:56 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork
I agree it was entirely Kimi's fault at monaco, and he should have been penalized.
however, if you are driving on the highway, and someone starts to merge into your lane trying to occupy the space that you occupy, do you simply assume that they will see you, and mind your own business, or do you let off the throttle, honk a bit, and let them in? Sutil saw Massa coming out of his pit, knew that the pit lane was very slim, should have ceded being already more than a lap down.
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Sept. 9, 2008 9:44 a.m. racerdave600 Reader
I'm not much of a Hamilton fan, but he was robbed on this one. It was the stewards of the race that made the call, not the FIA hiarchy. Sort of like the SOM at a SCCA race. The bad part is that this is not really subject to protest, so there's not much chance or a reversal. As far as race organization, the FIA is run a lot like SCCA in many ways, but probably needs to run more like, dare I say it, Nascar.
As far as Massa's incident, I wouldn't have penalized him either. He didn't do anything unsafe, and backed off when Sutil didn't. It would have been common courtesy for him to do so, and I can tell you from my years in Nascar and IMSA, Sutil would have been hauled to trailer right after the race. If you're a lap or more down, you simply do not even remotely do that to the leader of the race, no matter what.
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Sept. 9, 2008 10:02 a.m. maroon92 SuperDork
I agree with racerdave on most, but if F1 were run like NASCAR, I would quit watching.
is there a reason it takes 5 laps to "clean up debris" that isn't even there? or a reason there is a caution for someone who spins by himself and safely makes it to the pits without even seeing another car?
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Sept. 9, 2008 4:16 p.m. racerdave600 Reader
maroon92 wrote:
I agree with racerdave on most, but if F1 were run like NASCAR, I would quit watching.
is there a reason it takes 5 laps to "clean up debris" that isn't even there? or a reason there is a caution for someone who spins by himself and safely makes it to the pits without even seeing another car?
What I meant was they need a crew that goes with the series to officiate, not a group of local "club" members to do it for them. The officiating from race to race is not the same. They use the same rule book, but rules can be interpeted in different ways.
For example, one argument against Hamilton is that he never truly let Kimi back by, just moved over kept a nose by him. They say he would not have completed the pass if it were not for the momentum gained in short cutting the previous corner. If they had the same person handing out the penalties, they would know what to expect and it would on theory be the same every race.
Of course I would never want F1 to be like Nascar, oh the stories I could tell, but in the sense they need a stable officiating force. Maybe I should have used IRL as an example...on second thought....
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Sept. 11, 2008 6:32 a.m. PDoane None
McLaren also asked officlas (but not the stewards) twice about whether Hamilton's re-pass was sufficient imediately after it happened so they could have Hamilton allow another (if necessary) and was told YES, the re-pass was sufficient/within the rules.
Time for traveling/permanent F1 stewards.
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Sept. 11, 2008 8:23 a.m. walterj HalfDork
25 seconds is a drive-thru penalty, which is fair considering that having straight-lined the chicane allowed him to pass Kimi and resume directly on his draft at speed on his own terms. He did not "Give it right back" he waited for Kimi to pass him at speed and tucked right into the draft.
If Lewis had to actually brake for that chicane do you think he would have been on Kimi's gearbox, with a nice tow to make that next pass? He used the chicane to close up nice and tight and that is wrong.
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Sept. 11, 2008 8:52 a.m. Strizzo Dork
he was set up to make the pass at the chicane until kimi ran wide and forced him to straight line the chicane...
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Sept. 11, 2008 9:29 a.m. Kendall_Jones New Reader
I thought it was a bad call at 1st, but then I saw this sweet ass in car from the event:
LH picked up a load of exit speed with the shortcut....
Kendall
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Sept. 11, 2008 9:45 a.m. Gearhead_42 HalfDork
I have two comments on this one
1) The rule simply requires a resumption of previous ORDER not giving back "full track position"
and
2) Telemetry. They have throttle/brake position for the full timeframe of the incident, as well as speed information.
Stewards decided the race, ignoring the evidence. F1 ==> E36 M3ter
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Sept. 11, 2008 9:52 a.m. alfadriver Reader
Kendall_Jones wrote:
I thought it was a bad call at 1st, but then I saw this sweet ass in car from the event:
LH picked up a load of exit speed with the shortcut....
Kendall
Of course he did. And at the apex- probably was going a lot faster than Kimi. Kind of hard not to.
But he then slowed down to let Kimi pass, thus negating any speed advantage he gained. Telemetry shows that Kimi was 6kph faster at start finish which was post pass back.
Eric
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Sept. 11, 2008 9:57 a.m. rob_lewis Dork
Kendall_Jones wrote:
I thought it was a bad call at 1st, but then I saw this sweet ass in car from the event:
LH picked up a load of exit speed with the shortcut....
Kendall
First, watching that video gave me chills. It's simply amazing how fast those guys drive!!
Now, to the point made. Yes, LH picked up a lot of exit speed, but he was already barreling down on KR pretty well. LH is a fantastic rain driver and KR is not. I think that without the incident, KR would have still been passed (either cleanly or when he eventually spun out).
It'll just light more of a fire under LH.
-Rob
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Sept. 11, 2008 9:59 a.m. NYG95GA Dork
walterj wrote: If Lewis had to actually brake for that chicane do you think he would have been on Kimi's gearbox, with a nice tow to make that next pass?
Actually, yes. At that point, Lewis was cutting about half a second per lap off of Kimi's lead. He was bound to catch him.
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Sept. 11, 2008 10:10 a.m. walterj HalfDork
NYG95GA wrote:
walterj wrote: If Lewis had to actually brake for that chicane do you think he would have been on Kimi's gearbox, with a nice tow to make that next pass?
Actually, yes. At that point, Lewis was cutting about half a second per lap off of Kimi's lead. He was bound to catch him.
But he was easily able to do so immediately by not driving around the entire chicane... which is helpful when there is only 3 laps to go and the other guy is a world champ not inclined to give way voluntarily. Put yourself in the lead car and have that happen - you would cry foul.
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Sept. 11, 2008 10:15 a.m. walterj HalfDork
But he then slowed down to let Kimi pass, thus negating any speed advantage he gained.
Not true... he let Kimi by at 170... and then dropped into his tow which is not the same as lifting in the chicane and resuming at 80kph. Would he have passed him anyway, probably. Would he have done it in the next turn? Probably not.
