I survived two kids in fifth grade english. It helps to have a wife who was an english major. 
I'm up to Seventh Grade now!
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Sept. 23, 2011 3:43 p.m. DoctorBlade Dork
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Sept. 23, 2011 4:13 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork
RealMiniDriver wrote:
Now that I've applied some WD40 to my rusty grammar, "fast" is a multi-use word.
Fast as an adjective: He is fast.
Fast as an adverb: He runs fast.
Fast as a verb: He will fast for Lent.
Fast as a noun: He survived the Lenten fast.
It was right about here in 5th grade when I decided "berkeley it - I refuse to learn any more of this retarded set of rules. I'm just going to try to not talk dumb and see how far that gets me."
It's worked out OK so far.
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Sept. 23, 2011 4:18 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork
foxtrapper wrote: And unfortunately, blows my sons (son's? sons'?) a good bit as well.
sons mind = incorrect.
son's mind = the mind of my single son.
sons' minds = the minds of my multiple sons.
I think.
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Sept. 23, 2011 4:31 p.m. Duke SuperDork
DILYSI Dave wrote:
foxtrapper wrote: And unfortunately, blows my sons (son's? sons'?) a good bit as well.
sons mind = incorrect.
son's mind = the mind of my single son.
sons' minds = the minds of my multiple sons.
I think.
Correctamundo.
That's another sticky point - you do not make words that end in a vowel (or a consonant, for that matter) plural by adding apostrophe s. That's only for contractions and possessives, like Dave correctly points out.
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Sept. 24, 2011 12:48 a.m. dollraves Reader
foxtrapper wrote:
Here's some of my questions that I can't quite figure out.
"He runs fast". Runs is the verb, and fast is the adverb, right?
Yes, "runs" is the verb and "fast" describes the verb (how he runs) = the adverb.
"He's fast". What's fast now? Is it still an adverb, with a verb implied? Or did it become a verb?
"He's fast." = "He is fast." He=noun is=verb (passive) fast=adjective (describes the noun)
"He's a fast runner". Runner is noun (I think), so fast is now an adjective?
"He's a fast runner." = "He is a fast runner." He=noun is=verb runner=pronoun (a substitute noun) fast=adjective (of the pronoun, in this case).
Hope this helps!
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Sept. 24, 2011 2:15 a.m. Salanis SuperDork
foxtrapper wrote:
I can follow math just fine. I can read music. There are rules and conventions and they are applied consistently, no matter how complex the math or music. The vagueness and loopiness of english grammar though, and the 999 exceptions to each rule, just blows my mind. And unfortunately, blows my sons (son's? sons'?) a good bit as well.
Trouble is, English is a Germanic language that grew up out of Celtic. It then got influenced strongly by Latin, then a whole bunch of cross-breeding royals brought a bunch of French into the mix. Then, during the past couple of centuries, it got taught as though it were a romance language despite it being Germanic because everyone knew Latin was the greatest language ever even though no one spoke it anymore
And for the most part, it's consistent in terms of basic Grammar structure. Word use and conjugation gets changed (due to the like, four languages it's derived from), but structure is pretty solid.
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Sept. 24, 2011 2:36 a.m. fasted58 Dork
conjugation smongulation
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Sept. 24, 2011 11:22 a.m. bastomatic Dork
Fox, I think your basic problem here is that you don't recognize the rules of grammar, not that there are a lot of exceptions that are confusing you.
You never learned the basic rules of contractions, parts of speech (noun, verb, etc), and possessives (His, sons', son's), and that's beating you up. The rules are actually pretty straightforward, they are just complex and can be difficult to learn if you don't learn them at an early age.
If you start thinking English is full of contradictions and you have to memorize all the exceptions you'll never get anywhere. Start with the rules, worry about exceptions later. I mentioned Strunk and White earlier but that's probably a bit advanced for what we are talking here. Buy a "for dummies" kind of book or visit a website built for kids your son's age.
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Sept. 24, 2011 12:11 p.m. procainestart Dork
This one's pretty good: http://owl.english.purdue.edu/exercises/
PS For commonly confused words, e.g., there/their, this site is terrific: http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html
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Nov. 22, 2011 8:21 a.m. foxtrapper SuperDork
I feel like updating this thread.
Eats, Shoots and Leaves just came in the mail the other day. My wife pounced on it and I haven't had a chance to read it. Judging by how feverishly she keeps clutching it, I'd say it's pretty good.
SchoolHouseRock. I've had their DVD set for years. Been watching it with my son, particularly the gramar stuff. We stop it and review things, and I pose questions and ask him for clarification. He's loved being able to teach his father. Some of it has been staged, but a whole lot of it hasn't. He quite regularly will do a SHR jingle while figuring something out.
Gramar Dragon and Gramar Ninja on the phones. Think interactive SchoolHouseRock video game. Simple, but you learn gramar quickly, in spite of yourself. If I challenge him to a dual, he's hot to beat me. These days, its a dead heat who will win, and only because he flusters watching the clock count down.
For Christmas, the author of Eats, Shoots and Leaves has a few kids books that look good on specific gramar points, and don't cost much. She mentions a kids gramar book that I think I'll check out as well.
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Nov. 22, 2011 8:59 a.m. pinchvalve SuperDork
My first wife was a professional proofreader and my second is every bit as good with the English language. I just ask them.
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Nov. 22, 2011 9:24 a.m. rotard Reader
"You got a 'D' in English? Bobby, you speak English."
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Nov. 22, 2011 10:07 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork
Your grammar can't be that bad. You didn't title this question "learn me grammar"...
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Nov. 22, 2011 10:15 a.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork
I took 2 years of Latin in high school. I was not too good at grammar before that, just muddling through. After 2 years of taking sentences apart to translate them, I got real good at it. I was surprised when I took the SAT. They had a whole section on just taking apart sentences. It was so easy.
It helps a lot to draw lines under the various parts of the sentence. Subject, verb, predicate, use arrows for adverbs pointing to the verb, adjectives pointing to the noun they modify, etc. Just practice drawing them out.
