4cylndrfury wrote:you all are the best bunch of buttheads Ive ever had the pleasure of disagreeing with
Oddly enough, I consider that as a deep compliment.
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Aug. 23, 2009 2:29 p.m. NYG95GA SuperDork
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Aug. 24, 2009 9:30 a.m. Ian F HalfDork
aircooled wrote:
triumph7 wrote:
Media outlets (in my opinion) are whores of ratings, if they think a particular slant will get them more ratings, then there you go, thus you get examples of the extremes in the media since that seems to be in fashion.The motivation for most media has been to promote their liberal agenda....
Agreed. Maybe at one time, the media was "liberal" but I don't thing that's been the case for some time now... Even Foxnews I don't consider to be "conservative" - the management simply saw a vacuum in the news market for such a view point and filled that vacuum.
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Aug. 24, 2009 9:51 a.m. John Brown MegaDork
I still see the primary precursor for disagreements is the fact that people feel that because they are entitled to their opinion that their opinion must be right.
I had a person drop a car off this morning. They have never been to the shop and did not have an appointment. They bought their 2003 Jetta from a Dodge dealer across town with 25,000 miles in 2005 with a 3yr 36000 mile warranty extension. The car has 90K miles and is way out of any warranty.
The customer is mad at me, to the point of threatening me, because I need to charge a fee to diagnose his car. It is HIS OPINION that all repairs should be covered by the previous selling dealer.
Ignorance is the cause, the constitution is the enabler.
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Aug. 24, 2009 11:27 a.m. Appleseed HalfDork
Civil discourse is a rare and beautiful thing in this day and age.
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Aug. 24, 2009 1:57 p.m. vazbmw Reader
Hate? It is on the rise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-qr6gxIHhQ
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Aug. 24, 2009 2:07 p.m. Xceler8x Dork
I love the "liberal media" boogeyman.
It's a convenient way to say "They ain't sayin what I want to hear!" Truth is we all like hearing what we believe already. Because then we can break our arms reaching around to pat ourselves on the back for being so smert. I'm as guilty as Glenn Beck.
It's no secret I'm anti-right for now. Mainly because I'm scared of the religious aspects they like to intermix with politics as well as The Hate. I'd love to back any politician who's for the little guy as I believe the right was for a long time. I don't see many advocates for people who are steam rolled for larger corporate profits or more government control. On either side of the aisle.
I do agree that there is a lack of sacrifice on the part of individuals for the betterment of society. We're all in this together. To me, pointing out that some will take advantage is no reason to deny help to those who genuinely need it. Especially if those people are working their fingers to the bone before a hand is even extended to them.
More generosity, empathy, trust, and good deeds can't hurt.
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Aug. 24, 2009 2:41 p.m. vazbmw Reader
Self sacrifice, what? What are you some sort of socialist?
Xceler8x wrote:
...I do agree that there is a lack of sacrifice on the part of individuals for the betterment of society. We're all in this together. To me, pointing out that some will take advantage is no reason to deny help to those who genuinely need it. Especially if those people are working their fingers to the bone before a hand is even extended to them.
More generosity, empathy, trust, and good deeds can't hurt.
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Aug. 24, 2009 3:04 p.m. Xceler8x Dork
vazbmw wrote:
Self sacrifice, what? What are you some sort of socialist?
That's the socialist party as my avatar. I think Trotsky has the lamp shade on his head.
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Aug. 24, 2009 3:18 p.m. wbjones Reader
John Brown wrote:
tell him you're sorry he's upset but at the risk of increasing his anger would he please remove his car and go somewhere else...I still see the primary precursor for disagreements is the fact that people feel that because they are entitled to their opinion that their opinion must be right.
I had a person drop a car off this morning. They have never been to the shop and did not have an appointment. They bought their 2003 Jetta from a Dodge dealer across town with 25,000 miles in 2005 with a 3yr 36000 mile warranty extension. The car has 90K miles and is way out of any warranty.
The customer is mad at me, to the point of threatening me, because I need to charge a fee to diagnose his car. It is HIS OPINION that all repairs should be covered by the previous selling dealer.
Ignorance is the cause, the constitution is the enabler.
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Aug. 24, 2009 4:39 p.m. John Brown MegaDork
It's still sitting
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Aug. 24, 2009 5:25 p.m. 2002acr New Reader
nar·cis·sism - A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
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Aug. 24, 2009 6:27 p.m. ronbros New Reader
Hate! HATE!, HATE, that was the topic.
1 my life started at 6yrs old,(1939) when everybody in the area, said hate all Germans(NAZI), so we kids pretended to play guns and shoot germans.
2 darn right in middle of it, hate all Japs,( where the hell did that come )now we after Japs(,never seen one tho).
3 OH !! got another one Korean,( 18yrs old ), missed that one by 3mths, but gotta HATE em.
#4 big time super Nuclear, Russia, Su, , gotta HATE em.
5 Some silly place i cant even find on map, VIETNAM,, YUP, you got it HATE em.
#6 some god forsaken place called MIDDLE EAST,,
WELL, Im now 75+ yrs and im damn well tired of HATEN every time some one says I SHOULD HATE EVERYTHING Im told to HATE!!
OK all you smart guys, who is next on the HATE list.
IS US OR THEM???
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Aug. 24, 2009 6:39 p.m. ignorant PowerDork
Here it goes..
Change is scary.(I'm talking figuratively here and not about a specific campaign slogan). People as a general rule do not like to change their ways. Changing your ways implies, to many, that the old way of doing things was wrong. Even if the change is for the positive, most don't want to do it.
I think what's happening is that it is finally sinking in to some people that the way we were/are living is unsustainable; financially, environmentally, and emotionally. Some are more resistant to this change than others, and I think it's driven by fear.
I speak best through examples in my own life. So.. i run a production department in a large manufacturing plant. I'm relatively young and all the guys who work for me have an average age of 58. So, I constantly get, "listen here young man, I know what I'm doing".. B.S. Well what they're doing is failing to attain any of the metrics set out before them. They're producing quality products but always late and always at a high cost. The guys who work for me don't want to change their ways and when I enact change are more than happy to sit there with a smug grin on their faces; as if to say.. " It's going to fail." They don't want to move from a flawed known to an unknown. It's human nature. The guys who work for me try to sabotage my efforts, not in an active way but in a very passive way. If I ask their opinions and for buy in they will help, but not to the full extent they could possibly do so. Generally, They're afraid of me. I'm half their age, etc.. etc.. etc..
My point is that change is scary. We're in the middle of a whole lot of change. The lifestyle that brought many to affluent suburbs is now bringing them to poorer parts of town. The expensive suburbs are now ghost towns. The manufacturing job your dad had and his dad before him, is no longer guaranteed. Etc.. Etc.. Etc..
So.. People are afraid and are trying to hang on to what they have and how they've always done it, because its comforting. They don't want to suggest alternatives because that admits that they were wrong in their old ways. Instead they just lash out.
I think hate starts with fear.
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Aug. 24, 2009 8:19 p.m. 2002acr New Reader
I think hate gets fueled by certain media types that stir up emotions with very little factual basis. What qualifies most of them to be policy experts? It isn't their education or work experience.
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Aug. 24, 2009 8:31 p.m. NYG95GA SuperDork
Hatred is like taking poison because you want vengance on another, and expecting them to drop dead from it.
It's a cancer. Don't take it.
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Aug. 24, 2009 9:03 p.m. vazbmw Reader
So you call yourself "ignorant"and you write something like this. You should change your name to "well informed"
ignorant wrote:
Here it goes..
Change is scary.(I'm talking figuratively here and not about a specific campaign slogan). People as a general rule do not like to change their ways. Changing your ways implies, to many, that the old way of doing things was wrong. Even if the change is for the positive, most don't want to do it.
I think what's happening is that it is finally sinking in to some people that the way we were/are living is unsustainable; financially, environmentally, and emotionally. Some are more resistant to this change than others, and I think it's driven by fear.
I speak best through examples in my own life. So.. i run a production department in a large manufacturing plant. I'm relatively young and all the guys who work for me have an average age of 58. So, I constantly get, "listen here young man, I know what I'm doing".. B.S. Well what they're doing is failing to attain any of the metrics set out before them. They're producing quality products but always late and always at a high cost. The guys who work for me don't want to change their ways and when I enact change are more than happy to sit there with a smug grin on their faces; as if to say.. " It's going to fail." They don't want to move from a flawed known to an unknown. It's human nature. The guys who work for me try to sabotage my efforts, not in an active way but in a very passive way. If I ask their opinions and for buy in they will help, but not to the full extent they could possibly do so. Generally, They're afraid of me. I'm half their age, etc.. etc.. etc..
My point is that change is scary. We're in the middle of a whole lot of change. The lifestyle that brought many to affluent suburbs is now bringing them to poorer parts of town. The expensive suburbs are now ghost towns. The manufacturing job your dad had and his dad before him, is no longer guaranteed. Etc.. Etc.. Etc..
So.. People are afraid and are trying to hang on to what they have and how they've always done it, because its comforting. They don't want to suggest alternatives because that admits that they were wrong in their old ways. Instead they just lash out.
I think hate starts with fear.
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Aug. 24, 2009 9:39 p.m. aussiesmg Dork
Xceler8x wrote:
I love the "liberal media" boogeyman.
It's a convenient way to say "They ain't sayin what I want to hear!" Truth is we all like hearing what we believe already. Because then we can break our arms reaching around to pat ourselves on the back for being so smert. I'm as guilty as Glenn Beck.
I can state that as a former member of the public service sector who actually attended a number of serious incidents, that it is not always a case of "They ain't sayin what i want to hear" It was more a case of "Those E36 M3heads berkeleying lied about what occurred."
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Aug. 24, 2009 11:14 p.m. GlennS HalfDork
ignorant wrote:
I think hate starts with fear.
Yeah dude, i think Jesus said it best.
Jesus: Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
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Aug. 24, 2009 11:58 p.m. vazbmw Reader
that is why I don't pick a party. In Texas the Repubs and he Dems are basically the same folks. They switch parties like underwear. They look for voids and fill them. The basic conservative beliefs of the yellow dog Dems (I guess they call themselves blue dogs now) ( yellow dog dems )and the Repubs are basically the same except the Dems are ok with some minorities. The Repubs are pretty open about hating Mexican immigrants etc.
ddavidv wrote: ... I have decided, after much consideration, that the two parties are playing us like two football teams. You have to pick ONE. The other one is, of course, the arch rival. How many of us have said "I hate the Eagles" or "I hate the Yankees"? Same concept. They've figured out that if we 'hate' the other side we'll fight it in an uglier, more rancid fashion than if we just had sane discussions. Politicians want us to be divided. They want the hate. The more people in the two camps, the easier we are to manipulate. Independent voters are the worst thing in the world to them. So, they push the 'hate' thing. Bush haters. Obama racists (haters). They are playing us against each other to their benefit.
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Aug. 25, 2009 12:08 a.m. aircooled SuperDork
Hate has a close relative named fear, fear has a father and mother named ignorance and mis-information.
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Aug. 25, 2009 12:40 a.m. egnorant Dork
I have noticed a lot of very sincere reporting about this phenomena of the "haters" at the town hall meetings. Even on Fox I heard " I don't believe that the grandfather types are spontaniously showing up at these meetings" I am sure Geraldo was very sincere....but he was just wrong!! Watching the discussion as presented on TV, I feel like the folks pushing the healthcare bill are using the same tactics as the guy trying to sell me a time share!! and you begin to spot the problems.
As for the ignorance and misinformation.... Absolutely true! These are also used to relieve fear when fear is terribly needed.
Bruce
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Aug. 25, 2009 6:57 a.m. 4cylndrfury Dork
Ignorance breeds Ignorance
Ignorants breed Ignorants
Whatever the case, youre in trouble if your unwilling to consider other points of view besides your own. I dont have to agree with other people, but I was always taught to respect other peoples ideas whether or not I thought they were good ideas.
Objectivity is a lost art. Acceptance is dead. Consideration for your fellow man is no longer practiced. Ideocentricity, self-centeredness and ego-centrism are all being born out of a general feeling of uncertainty, inadequacy, and like was mentioned before, fear.
In general, Until people can be happy in their own lives with thier own abilities, and living within their own begotten means, people will have a very hard time respecting someone elses opinions that may vary widley from their own, unless that was a skil taught you by your folks...
thanks mom and dad!!!
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Aug. 25, 2009 11:05 a.m. Hal HalfDork
ignorant wrote:
I think hate starts with fear.
aircooled said:
Hate has a close relative named fear, fear has a father and mother named ignorance and mis-information.
And there you have the answer.
Even if you haven't had to deal with it everyone knows there is a problem with the healthcare system. The media has been drumming it into our heads for years.
Politicians, Insurance Companies, and the medical profession talk about it in terminology that we don't understand instead of plain English.
The "Congress Critters" have produced a humongus plan that no one (probably even them) understands. And no one has seen fit to explain it so the average person can understand.
The "Anti's" are taking advantage of the obscurity in the plan language to put their own spin on it. And the ones who can't "spin it their way" are resorting to outright lies.
So the average persons reaction does not suprise me at all.
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Aug. 25, 2009 11:40 a.m. SVreX UberDork
I gonna have to point some of the blame to the internet as well.
Nowadays, anyone can be published, and everyone online essentially is.
We all have stupid opinions at times. But before the internet, I was limited to how many people I could influence with my dumb ideas to those with whom I came in direct contact. Now I can treat all of you to my nastiness. It's a simple statistical number- it wasn't possible to reach as many people, and the people who could (journalists, etc) were subject to peer review, editorial review, etc.
Ugly words are titillating. We all love gossip and "juicy"stuff.
Now, with the assistance of the internet, I can throw as much trash as I like out to virtually the entire world, and huge numbers of them are willing to listen, whether it is true or not.
It's very difficult to inspire someone to zealousness with positive and encouraging words, but extremely easy to get people worked up over discouraging or fearful words.
When was the last time you heard over the water cooler, "Wow, did you hear the nice things that guy on the news said last night?". Much more likely that you heard about something upsetting, frustrating, or bothersome.
However, it's important to recognize that what we call "hate" these days for the most part isn't even close. We're really spoiled to consider our free speech (which is often ugly) to come anywhere near rivaling the evils of Nazism, racial genocide, gender genocide, slavery, etc. etc. etc. Those things were hate. What we are now experiencing doesn't come close.
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Aug. 25, 2009 12:16 p.m. John Brown MegaDork
So Hate is just following the family business - Politics.
Got it.
