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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » how illegal?

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Sept. 11, 2009 9:03 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

not that I would ever do it, but how illegal is it to swap vin tags on a car? I see it done in the vintage world all the time, but how about with something slightly more modern?

If for example, one had a late fox mustang that needed to pass emissions in a particular state, and you also had an early (say 79) mustang that did not need to pass emissions. and (sticking theoretically of course) the late one ran, and the 79 was a shell. To get the later one to pass would be prohibitively expensive.

what kind of legal ramifications might stem from a VIN tag swappage between the two mustangs.
Sept. 11, 2009 9:09 p.m. rebelgtp Dork

I'm fairly sure it would involve steep fines and the crushing of the cars in question (depending on the state) I'm not sure about jail time.
Sept. 11, 2009 9:13 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

I thought that might be the case. Its only illegal if you get caught?
Sept. 11, 2009 9:15 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

It's a felony.
Sept. 11, 2009 9:17 p.m. JFX001 Dork

maroon92 wrote:

I thought that might be the case. Its only illegal if you get caught?

Considering that you are asking/questioning about the legality leads me to believe that you are a fan of karma. And it will bite you in the ass.

On the other hand, if you didn't ask, and went ahead and did it...then you would've been fine.
Sept. 11, 2009 9:18 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

maroon92 wrote:

I thought that might be the case. Its only illegal if you get caught?

yeah but in this case its REALLY illegal.
Sept. 11, 2009 9:26 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

So you are saying swapping into the older chassis gets me less time in the federal pound me in the ass prison?
Sept. 11, 2009 9:26 p.m. rob_lewis Dork

But there's NOTHING that says you can't swap EVERY part from the late model car to the early model shell.

That's perfectly legal.

-Rob
Sept. 11, 2009 9:26 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

in most cases, there is a hardship exemption where if you make less than X per year and it costs more than X to make the vehicle pass emissions, you get a pass for the year.
Sept. 11, 2009 9:29 p.m. maroon92 UltraDork

The main reason it wont pass is because i ripped out the OBD! I dont know why but i am contemplating making my prepared class car road legal again...
Sept. 11, 2009 9:41 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

do they actually check the obd during emissions testing on cars prior to 96?

in texas all the pre-obdII cars have to do is pass the sniffer
Sept. 11, 2009 9:44 p.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

If you tell nobody and deny all knowledge, how could it be proved?

Of course you may have made a tactical error!
Sept. 11, 2009 9:51 p.m. RexSeven Dork

Strizzo wrote:

do they actually check the obd during emissions testing on cars prior to 96?

in texas all the pre-obdII cars have to do is pass the sniffer

Hell, Mass. gave up emissions testing for cars older than 1998 altogether. Yes, I am just as shocked as anyone else familiar with Mass. inspection policies since they otherwise follow Cali's Smog Nazi laws.
Sept. 11, 2009 10:03 p.m. Keith PowerDork

There isn't a standardized test for pre-OBDII cars. All they can do is make sure there's no check engine light and maybe stick a probe up the tailpipe.
Sept. 11, 2009 10:04 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

so, you're saying that emissions testing in texas is more comprehensive than taxachusetts?

i thought it was getting a little cool in here
Sept. 11, 2009 10:13 p.m. JohnGalt Reader

"It was like that when i bought it."

Or you could just move to a state that doesn't test cars a' la Georgia. use to drive past cars every day that didn't have a chance a passing a ANY kind of vehicle inspection.
Sept. 11, 2009 10:15 p.m. neon4891 UltraDork

This makes NY sound down right resonable(upstate, at least). 75-95(?) all they check is that you have your cats. OBD-II needs cats and a clean reading on your computer, no sniffer.
Sept. 11, 2009 10:22 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

hell when i was in GA, i saw quite a few handwritten temp tags.

"plates applied for"
Sept. 11, 2009 10:26 p.m. impulsive New Reader

There isn't a standardized test for pre-OBDII cars. All they can do is make sure there's no check engine light and maybe stick a probe up the tailpipe.

few yrs back I passed NJ emissions with CEL on in my Fed Hyundai Excel run by a Cali Mitsubishi Mirage ECU. computer was(and still is) looking for the non-existent EGR temp sensor, apparently has no affect on how the motor runs.

it passed the sniffer, that was all that mattered.
Sept. 11, 2009 10:35 p.m. Carson Dork

In NC all pre-'96 cars that are newer than 35 years old need to pass a "safety inspection." That basically means your horn works and all your lights.

I had a '88 Prelude for a short time last year that I resurrected from a field it had been parked in for 4 years, at the time of inspection, the dual carbs were really gummed up and it would barely idle, had 4 square tires, 4 blown shocks, the muffler-less exhaust was attached by zip ties, and the check engine light gave me sunburn. The horn worked and so did all the lights so it passed even with a surging idle from about 10 to 1800 rpm.

I, of course, fixed all these things before I drove it any great distance and well before I sold it, I'm just demonstrating NC state inspections.

My brother has an old farm truck that passed with a windshield cracked from corner to corner.
Sept. 11, 2009 10:36 p.m. mad_machine UberDork

yes.. my 96 Ti has to have the computer hooked up to Pass emissions. My 94 900 has it's tailpipe probed. That is the difference between OBD1 and OBD2 in NJ
Sept. 12, 2009 8:15 a.m. maroon92 UltraDork

JohnGalt said:
Or you could just move to a state that doesn't test cars a' la Georgia. use to drive past cars every day that didn't have a chance a passing a ANY kind of vehicle inspection.

I just relocated from Michigan...all of my cars were legal there, none of them are legal here!
Sept. 12, 2009 9:21 a.m. curtis73 HalfDork

Its one of those stupid semantics illegalities. It is in fact a federal felony. But...

If you have a car, and you replace every single part except the dashboard, that's legal. If you swap the dashboard from one car to another taking the VIN with it, its a felony. You could say that you had a 79 that wrecked so you took parts off the late model to repair it or something... but if any scrutiny comes your way, make sure you have something to back up your story... pictures, receipts, anything. But... you will most certainly have to use the 79 dashboard or a reproduction of one. Its one thing to give the appearance of hanging some sheet metal on a body, but a full interior and dashboard swap is unlikely which will be a huge red flag. Once its suspected, all it takes is a keen eye to see if the VIN tag has been swapped.

I have seen it done before, mostly because they knew it wasn't immoral. A buddy had a motorcycle without a title, so he bought a frame for $20 off CL that had a VIN and title. Instead of spending weeks transferring all the parts to the new frame, he just swapped the VIN plates to the old bike. So, he's not going to hell, but might go to jail.

...but I doubt they'll send a forensics team to find out if the VINs were swapped.
Sept. 12, 2009 10:50 a.m. maroon92 UltraDork

thats the thing... It wont even have a dash... Or a windshield. Its a prepared car. its FULLY stripped. The vin is on the cowl. Rivited in. Its easy to drill out and rerivit.
Sept. 12, 2009 10:52 a.m. maroon92 UltraDork

Oh, and 79 and 93 are the same chassis... The dashboards are practically identical

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