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I wish I would have realized that there's no stigma (social, employable, or otherwise) in following the path Brett_Murphy outlined above..
I HATED school because of the boring tedium, and as a result put off going to college because I was expecting more of the same.. Had I have realized the truth, I probably would have dropped out of HS at 16, gotten a GED and then went to do Comp Sci or Mech. Eng. or something of the sort, getting a 2 year jump on my peers..
Wonkothesane wrote: I probably would have dropped out of HS at 16, gotten a GED and then went to do Comp Sci or Mech. Eng. or something of the sort, getting a 2 year jump on my peers..
Again, I am a certified vocational re-trainer... You would be surprised how many higher-up positions that move would have cost you. GED does not equal a real HSD, no matter what they try and tell you. I've worked with a guy who had a BS from a good state school not get hired for a job because he had a GED instead of a HSD. It happens, and a lot more often than you would think.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I wish i made a few thousand bucks a week. Where do i sign?
Your reading comprehension needs improvement.
Weeks not week as in 6 or 7. Note the plural?
50+ hour weeks..
ThePhranc wrote:You need to wear the shoes of an architect for a while.. at least while they are in school. There they are required to get practical in field work. as part of their education..ReverendDexter wrote:Oh, and let me just chip this in: if she's going to be an architect, get her looking at the LAND she's building on.
My father's a general contractor, and he hasn't met an architect yet that understands how to build a house that actually works with the terrain of the property. What should be small jobs turn into huge ones because they have to either do huge cuts or truck in and compact hundreds of cubic yards of fill to bring things up.
If you're in the flatlands, it won't be so much of an issue, but if she's designing stuff in the hills/mountains...
This.
I do glazing and signs, the biggest hindrance besides government permits is architects who know everything but how to make designs work in the real world.
If she's not adverse to getting dirty see if she'll be up to going to work in associated fields like glazers, mason etc.
Many mistakes are introduced in the bidding process. a set of plans are sent out for bid and some contractor will low bid to get the work and expect to make their profit from supplemental add-ons..
might look into dual enrollment at the local college... a family friend's daughter is going to graduate with her AA in may... a week later she'll graduate form HS... in 11th grade she took as many classes out at the college as she could (I think she had one class at the HS) and her entire Sr. year was at the college... she's very driven and not big into the HS drama... come fall her and her brother are moving to Tallahassee and both start as Jrs in college.
I had a friend that dual enrolled his Sr year and it was very good for him (he was a bit socially awkward and moving on from HS was good for him)
so worth looking into
HiTempguy wrote:BBsGarage wrote:She is involved with student council, winter track, cross country, softball, swimming and 4H.
Does she, uh, have a life?
Serious question.
Oh and I forgot a part time job 
All this IS her life.
If we happen to have a night at home she drives us nuts with wanting to do "something"
@ Duke, we are in NJ but she's looking all over the country. the latest was U of Tenn.
@ pigeon Thanks but she is quite driven all on her own.
mguar wrote:I really don't think much of the design work is being done in India or China for the jobs I deal with since I deal with the actual people who design the buildings.ThePhranc wrote:You need to wear the shoes of an architect for a while.. at least while they are in school. There they are required to get practical in field work. as part of their education..ReverendDexter wrote:Oh, and let me just chip this in: if she's going to be an architect, get her looking at the LAND she's building on.
My father's a general contractor, and he hasn't met an architect yet that understands how to build a house that actually works with the terrain of the property. What should be small jobs turn into huge ones because they have to either do huge cuts or truck in and compact hundreds of cubic yards of fill to bring things up.
If you're in the flatlands, it won't be so much of an issue, but if she's designing stuff in the hills/mountains...
This.
I do glazing and signs, the biggest hindrance besides government permits is architects who know everything but how to make designs work in the real world.
If she's not adverse to getting dirty see if she'll be up to going to work in associated fields like glazers, mason etc.
If you understand the process you would realize that lately much design work has been done in India or even China.. (anyplace with an internet connection)..Many mistakes are introduced in the bidding process. a set of plans are sent out for bid and some contractor will low bid to get the work and expect to make their profit from supplemental add-ons..
Never heard of "supplemental add ons" post bid.
Is this practical field training required for all architects? Because most of the ones I deal with have no idea how to build a building. Sure they can make pretty models and drawings but they couldn't tell you how that seamless mullion system works or wont work in their design.
My parents sent me to a more challenging HS when I was a sophmore. I made my first B, C, D and F in the first grading period. Since they wouldnt let me get my drivers license until I had a B average, I suddenly became a motivated student. That school was harder than law school but I made the grades and graduated with Honors. I started college as a sophmore due to all the advanced placement I obtained. I cant give any details but we had plenty of fun too.
She may not like you at the time but find a more challenging school for her.
Javelin wrote: You would be surprised how many higher-up positions that move would have cost you. GED does *not* equal a real HSD, no matter what they try and tell you.
How does that even work? My high school isn't even on my CV, and my college is just years attended and degree. My work experience and professional references are what are going to get me jobs at this point in time.
Is it a matter of: "Hey, these two applicants are pretty close, but this one has a GED and this one has an actual diploma, let's decide based on that!" or something else?
Mostly it's state or national level certifications that require valid HS diplomas with transcripts.
Duke wrote:In design school she will be required to write analysis papers, research papers, and essays. She will also be required to stand up in front of her class, her professor, and a bunch of the professor's snarky friends to explain her work out loud, then defend it when it is criticized (which it will be). She'll probably have to do this on minimal sleep, too, so any practice she can get now will be a huge advantage.
At least at my school, about 2/3 of the freshman declaring architecture as their major leave by the end of their first year. About 1/4 of what's left leave during their sophomore year. 1/2 of the ones remaining are admitted into the upper-division; the rest are sent farewell. I was an architecture major for four semesters, and I was glad that they asked me to pack my bags. That whole field is just a bundle of misery. I would venture that architecture majors are the highest percentage of smokers and adderal users on campus. It did prepare me for taking criticism, though; in fact, nothing that I have experienced since has compared.
My mistake was that I tried to juggle a job. This simply doesn't work. The amount of time that one needs to spend in studio is enormous. A typical weekend was to work Saturday for 8 hours, go to studio until 6 AM, work a 4-midnight, then go to studio, and stay up until my 4-midnight shift the next day. Much of what I earned went back into supplies; I probably spent $1500 or so per semester on supplies, and I was more frugal than most.
The major problem is that no matter what anyone would have told me, I would have done it just the same. I'm sure that many people warned me of how terrible it was, but I thought, "Pshh, sounds like a bunch of Bob Costas to me!"
My dad came from one of the best high schools in the state. He is doing very well.
My mom and her siblings (and 2 brother in-laws) went to a small farm country high school that probably wasn't among the best in the state. Of those, 6/7 have college degrees, 2 with masters, and 2 that are veterinarians. Mostly Big 10 schools.
The high school definitely does help/affect things, but in the end, it depends on the individual to make something happen.
In terms of the architecture field: I know two of them, one of them very well. One of them is currently a caddy after 20 years with Walgreens. The other is nearly retired, lucky that he is the age that most of his career was done before the bust. This guy says that architecture is a better hobby than career.
In reply to Javelin:
Ah, that. It seems to me that a 4 year college degree/transcript should beat a high school diploma/transcript like a full house beats two pair, regardless.
Which high school you went to only matters in St. Louis, MO. Anywhere else it doesn't matter so much. (Joking).
I went a bit astray with my original comment. I have to say that the OP's daughter displays a lot of great character, and it looks like she learned a lot of life's lessons (especially regarding juggling a multitude of commitments) earlier than I did. I made a lot of mistakes early in my college career because I tried to take on too much with too little focus, and I paid dearly for it. I was only able to afford my mistakes by going to an affordable state school.
BBsGarage wrote:@ pigeon Thanks but she is quite driven all on her own.
That's perfectly fine. Not many of those things I'd consider "fun" when I was her age, and that wasn't that long ago.
Of course, now I do stupid things like volunteer in stage rally organizations, so who knows? I was never really shown that side of life when growing up. I'm just happy you are a parent who is letting her do what she wants as now (her age) is about the time that someones child should start to have that freedom IMO. As I tell everyone, when I was 16, I drove 700km away to sleep on a motel floor and volunteer at a rally, and I appreciate the fact that my parents didn't stop me for ridiculous things like "oh, it's so dangerous to drive at night by yourself" and "you're not mature enough to be alone that far from home".
Mitchell wrote:At least at my school, about 2/3 of the freshman declaring architecture as their major leave by the end of their first year. About 1/4 of what's left leave during their sophomore year. 1/2 of the ones remaining are admitted into the upper-division; the rest are sent farewell.
Yeah, and that hasn't changed in the history of architecture school ever. It's not a career for the uncommitted. That's driven by public perception of architecture as a glamorous and lucrative job, which it ain't. And even at that, the professional field is overpopulated. I've got 22+ years experience on top of a Masters Degree (7 years of college there) and I am nowhere near making 6 figures. I deferred about 25% of my pay last year in order to protect my job. It looks like I'll get that back soon, but it was not a sure thing.
Because of the overpopulation and workload of the career, schools are in fact set up to weed out the candidates heavily. Every school has at least 1 freshman prof whose job is to Put The Fear into the entry-level students. Sometimes those profs are good at it without being brutal, and some are just dicks (regardless of gender).
At my undergraduate school, the weeder was a guy named Carlos Alvarez, aka "The Cuban Spitfire". He was actually one of that first type, not a dick. A couple of years after I started, he retired, and the next guy was a leftover hippie. The architecture major population DOUBLED in about a year because the weaklings weren't getting sorted out early. My senior year, I TA'd for a new prof in the freshman class, and we pulled all manner of shiny happy person moves to get rid of the "easy A" types. We published a huge supplies list on the first day, a lot of which was not really required - that usually got rid of 10 out of class of 60. We'd assign a hefty reading list. Once we told people that 10% of their grade depended upon what they wore to the second class, and gave no criteria at all for how we would judge. Finally, after all that, we would wind up with 35 kids who really wanted to be there, and a manageable class size.
The guy at my graduate school was VERY good, but also a bit of a dick. I saw him reduce people to tears on more than one occasion (both genders). His best move (and one I stole shamelessly when I guest-criticized after graduating) was reserved for people who were obviously very in love with their own designs - he'd let you finish being all smarmy, and then he'd simply flap the backs of his hands together like flippers and bark like the Trained Seal of Approval. Devastatingly effective.
That being said, the job is highly interesting to me and seeing the real building come out looking like the pictures you drew (and having owners and users like it) is very high on the personal satisfaction scale.
My mistake was that I tried to juggle a job. This simply doesn't work. The amount of time that one needs to spend in studio is enormous.
Yeah, nobody understands that going in. Engineering, medicine, etc. all are tough studies because the material is complicated. But in architecture, you're just never done . There's always something that could be designed better, or another drawing you could do, or more rendering, or adding detail to the model, or...
mguar wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I wish i made a few thousand bucks a week. Where do i sign?
Your reading comprehension needs improvement. Weeks not week as in 6 or 7. Note the plural?
50+ hour weeks..
I wish i made a few thousand bucks every 6 or 7 weeks. Where do i sign?
Sorry, i didn't done grajitaded colege. I dun't reed gud.
I graduated from the University of Tennessee in Architecture. Then taught in the school of Architecture for 10 years.
I would recommend UT. It is one of the best values in Architecture. We had our own building and it is beautiful. There is a lot of energy and creativity in that building. We shared it with art, photography and graphic design.
As far as high school goes, I never saw it make a difference. I floated around a couple admission boards and the students portfolio was the deciding factor. Like a couple others have said, there are HUGE first year classes, and only a third would graduate. Most dropping the first semester or two.
Here are a couple of things to think about.
-the current job market is EMPTY. I know dozens of unemployed architecture graduates. this will change, but if you working in a firm your job IS TIED to the economy.
-architects don't make a lot of money. You may start as low as $30k and top out around $50k unless you get your license. (seems like good money, but not if you spend $150k to get the degree)
-however it is an AMAZING education, and gives you an advantage in other job markets.
-you will meet LIFE LONG friends in studio and truly evolve as a person
