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  • chaparral

    Feb. 8, 2012 5:10 p.m. chaparral Reader

    AngryCorvair wrote:

    chaparral wrote:

    At that income level, you have to make some good choices about lifestyle, but you get to make your own choices, and you can make up for your own emergencies.

    true. it really does come down to making good choices about lifestyle. i believe we're going to adjust our restaurants and entertainment budget down so we can put more into the college fund. we also have six months of living expenses in the bank, which is a very nice security blanket.

    it is absolutely critical to have a plan. in "The Millionaire Next Door" there are some interesting data presented re. how much time is spent on planning and budgeting by wealthy people versus non-wealthy people. wealthy people spend something like 20x more time planning. dave ramsey says "every dollar has a name," and that's how we live. we spend about 4 hours per month, and go through several iterations of the monthly budget one week before that month begins. it is an effective tool for communicating the expectations for the month, it minimizes surprises, and it gives us each a tangible assignment of responsibility.

    Of course, there are times where it's important to not have a plan, too.

    1) If a plan would cheat you out of taking irresponsible risks to do something great. I could've raced at the Rock Island Grand Prix on a factory Margay for a few grand that I didn't have. I could've spent ten grand on motors, batteries, and electronics and had the fastest electric kart in the world a couple years ago. I should've done it and worried about it later.

    2) If a plan would tie you to doing something that's going to work against you in the end. My plan involved spending five-to-twenty grand on a car that would be dead-reliable, fast, and relaxing for my 25,000 miles a year of driving - and then I moved and went down to 1500 miles a year of driving and 8000 on the motorcycle.

    3) If a plan relies on stuff that just ain't gonna happen. I could plan ahead to save for a down payment on a house when I graduate. I could plan ahead around finding Ms. Right and settling down after a few years. But I'm too much of a wanderer, and want to get into an industry that'll be changing and growing rapidly, to tie myself to living in the same area for the ten-fifteen years it would take to pay off the house. But I'm an engineer and if past history is any indication it's at least 5-1 against my having the same dance partner for two different evenings, let alone for the next sixty years.

  • Datsun1500

    Feb. 8, 2012 5:14 p.m. Datsun1500 SuperDork

    In reply to fromeast2west:

    In this thread alone there is a link to an article saying $75K. A comment saying a survey said $60K and now your survey that says $90K.....

    Again, the guy at $30K thinks $75K would be a game changer, ask the guy at $85K if the extra $5k makes a difference.

    Like I said above, there are some guys on this board that would love to make $100K and some on this board that could not live on $100K.. It is all relative.

    As pointed out in the "win the lotto" thread. $500K buys a lot of land in Ohio, but a small house in Maryland...

  • Feb. 8, 2012 5:46 p.m. z31maniac SuperDork

    I think debt is the biggest thing.

    Once mine is eliminated, should be another 2-3 years for everything buy the house to be paid off, I'll feel better. I could pay it off sooner, but what good is trying to pay everything off in 8 months, if I die in a car wreck in 4?

    As has been said, the happy medium between having fun/planning for the future is the key.

    Hopefully the wife and I will be opening up our own business in ~5 years.

  • Ranger50

    Feb. 8, 2012 6:22 p.m. Ranger50 Dork

    Anything more then right now would be a godsend. Currently living on under 40k from the my wife's income with a 3yr old and shacked up with the MIL in her house.

  • Feb. 8, 2012 9:27 p.m. dj06482 HalfDork

    As several have mentioned, the cost of living plays a huge factor in what would be a comfortable living. If you can pay all your bills at the end of the month, putting some money aside for savings, and have some extra left over, you're doing pretty well. Making conscious decisions is really important, because the average American income can't afford the average American lifestyle. It's too easy to be jealous of the Jones', expect the Jones' typically can't afford their own lifestyle.

    This guy does a great job outlining the impact of debt:

    http://www.searchlightcrusade.net/2011/12/existing_debt_the_biggest_hurd.html

  • curtis73

    Feb. 8, 2012 11:32 p.m. curtis73 SuperDork

    No kids, tiny house. I'm unemployed since I haven't found a job since the move, but here are my specs:

    Wife: typically around $15/hr at 40 hours, so she brings home in the neighborhood of $20k/yr.

    Me: typically around 800-1000/wk commission, so I bring home around $35k/yr.

    Tiny house, tiny mortgage (around $300/mo). One of the plans with this move is the small living cost so we can get better jobs and stop living paycheck to paycheck. We got by just fine and we were happy, but having a little extra cash flow would be nice for when I want that extra car or six.

    Once we get jobs, the plan is also to build a nice big garage for all my junk, and I can use that to supplement income. Heck, a few timing belt jobs a month in that garage will pay for the mortgage AND the garage loan. Eventually in 10 or so years the plan is for me to "retire" and do some custom work in that garage and make a go at a small business.

    I'm also going back to school in the fall for my master's in counseling. Once I'm licensed I can have a private practice at home, or hook up with an existing firm.

  • Ian F

    Feb. 9, 2012 8:22 a.m. Ian F SuperDork

    curtis73 wrote: Eventually in 10 or so years the plan is for me to "retire" and do some custom work in that garage and make a go at a small business.

    That's sorta my plan as well. Have the "hard items" bought and paid for within a few years and set up a small wood working business in a back yard shop.

    That said, as I get older, medical insurance is becoming a greater concern when it comes to this plan.

  • BARNCA

    Feb. 9, 2012 5:19 p.m. BARNCA HalfDork

    lemme throw an interesting curve in this topic. my father-in law. or as i usually refer to him, my wifes father. him and my mother in law divorced. they made about 175k a yr combined. had a dirt cheap mortgage. they did the whole divide stuff up when they divorced he bought her out and kept the house. fast forward 6months later. he has a new harley. new toyota truck. new rv. new trailer to haul the new harley. well come to find out he re financed himself into a hell of a whole. he went from a payment of around 3 or 4 hundred a month to over 2 a month. he makes good money. but he likes his toys... can ya see were this is going? he met his new wife who is as retarded as he is and she just kept fanning the flames of this fire.... 2yrs into there marriage they lose the house.. and now live in a really crappy townhouse that i wont let my son in... its jsut so sad that some cant see what they have and say thats good enuff. then boo hoo anyone who will listen when it comes around.. my wife and i were lucky that we got a good size settlement and we were able to pay cash for our manufactured home and bought my wife her first new car and bought a place near disney. not only for us but as an investment for our son. you would think that her dad would be happy for her and us.. but ohh hellllll no.. all he kept asking was how we bought the home. how we bought the car.. and had the balls to ask her to GIVE him money.... when he wouldnt do squat for her... so thats my rant just wanted to throw out my thoughts on money.. ya its cool and all.. but it isnt everything.

  • DrBoost

    Feb. 9, 2012 5:31 p.m. DrBoost SuperDork

    Yup, you hit it on the head. Money ain't everything, and if you are a bone head, it's a curse.

  • BARNCA

    Feb. 9, 2012 5:42 p.m. BARNCA HalfDork

    and also as a footnote. the bank took the bike, trailer, rv, and truck....

  • Toyman01

    Feb. 9, 2012 6:59 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

    In reply to BARNCA:

    Damn, that sounds like my wife's family. I'm just glad they live in Louisiana. To far for them to beg. The sad part is she's glad they're that far away too.

  • nicksta43

    Feb. 9, 2012 8:36 p.m. nicksta43 Reader

    Since we had our son how I look at money has changed drastically. Money used to not matter to me at all. Enjoying my job was the biggest criteria I looked for. Now I feel like I will never make enough to feel comfortable.

    Even with that feeling seven months ago I left a very well paying job for a similar job with a competitor but had to take a 20k per year pay cut. And it was worth every penny lost.

    I used to work on production. Basically I would get 5% of every dollar made. The whole atmosphere there was produce, produce, produce. They scheduled jobs seven days a week. I averaged 75 hours a week but hours didn't mean anything. I could bring home 1800 per week or 300 just as easily for the same amount of hours. I was never home, my wife and son missed me. I was always exhausted, never got a day off. I worked 32 days straight had a Tuesday off then worked 14 more days before getting another day off. After three years of that I was over it. My mind and body is still recovering from it.

    Now I am salary, don't work weekends and feel like I have a normal life/work balance again. Sure I would like that extra 20k but even without it knowing exactly what I'm going to bring home is a huge plus and we can actually have a budget. There is so much less stress in the house now.

    Going foward I know what I would like to be able to do and we can't do that on what I'm currently making. But if I have to work like that to get it then I guess I'l just have to settle for less. As long as I can take care of my family I'm happy. Even though I know I will never have a race car.

  • DrBoost

    Feb. 9, 2012 9:14 p.m. DrBoost SuperDork

    Nicksta, I hear ya. I left a job about 7 or 8 years ago, I was making almost 70K with overtime. The problem was, base pay was in the mid to high 40's, so that shows just how much overtime I was working. I left for a job making something like 38, with no overtime possible. I was happy. I did it because I missed my first son sitting up for the first time. I told myself that was the first, and last "first" I'd miss.

  • Feb. 9, 2012 9:28 p.m. TRoglodyte HalfDork

    How much is enough?

  • Zomby woof

    Feb. 9, 2012 9:43 p.m. Zomby woof SuperDork

    TRoglodyte wrote:

    How much is enough?

    Too much.

  • Feb. 9, 2012 9:48 p.m. TRoglodyte HalfDork

    Agreed, Quit while your ahead.

  • Ian F

    Feb. 10, 2012 6:28 a.m. Ian F SuperDork

    Toyman01 wrote:

    In reply to BARNCA:

    Damn, that sounds like my wife's family. I'm just glad they live in Louisiana. To far for them to beg. The sad part is she's glad they're that far away too.

    ...and unfortunately, sounds similar to my father... who has the financially responsibility of a 12 year old... which would be an insult to some 12 y.o.s...

    Fortunately, my mother has the opposite problem... getting her to spend money can be an issue sometimes... it took her almost 5 years to buy a new car and her kitchen is a wreck.

  • Hal

    Feb. 10, 2012 3:29 p.m. Hal Dork

    When we got married in 1968 neither of us made much money even with me working a second job so we saved every way we could. Buy groceries in bulk, look for sale on everthing, eat out once every two weeks, no vacations, etc. Only thing we splurged on was buying our cars new. But we kept them till we saved up the cash to buy a new one and I did all the service on them. As soon as we could we started putting money in savings.

    Bought a house in 1976 for $42K (now appraised at $350K) and we still live in it. Being a shop teacher I did most of the renovations,etc around the place and we paid off the mortgage in 1987.

    Fast forward to the present and our current dilemma. We have now been retired for 5 years and can't break our old habits. We have no debt and haven't had for years. Between our retirements and SS we bring home $6500 a month and end up putting $3k in savings! We need a new dining room table but the wife doesn't want to spend the money and wants me to fix up the one we have. We put new windows in the house to get the tax credit but I installed the to save money!

  • Feb. 11, 2012 10:59 a.m. Knurled Dork

    Marty! wrote:

    Meh. I've been miserable when I had money to burn and I've been happy as a clam when I've been dirt poor.

    Money never equates to happiness, motorsports does.

    Well, the way I see it, anyway...

    Funny how the correlations work: happiness is directly proportional to motorsports, while money is inversely proportional to motorsports.

    NB: I don't borrow to finance motorsports. That way lies madness. I think the real equation uses absolute values, so negative money is just as bad as positive money.

  • AngryCorvair

    Feb. 11, 2012 1:04 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

    Hal wrote:

    When we got married in 1968 neither of us made much money even with me working a second job so we saved every way we could. Buy groceries in bulk, look for sale on everthing, eat out once every two weeks, no vacations, etc. Only thing we splurged on was buying our cars new. But we kept them till we saved up the cash to buy a new one and I did all the service on them. As soon as we could we started putting money in savings.

    Bought a house in 1976 for $42K (now appraised at $350K) and we still live in it. Being a shop teacher I did most of the renovations,etc around the place and we paid off the mortgage in 1987.

    Fast forward to the present and our current dilemma. We have now been retired for 5 years and can't break our old habits. We have no debt and haven't had for years. Between our retirements and SS we bring home $6500 a month and end up putting $3k in savings! We need a new dining room table but the wife doesn't want to spend the money and wants me to fix up the one we have. We put new windows in the house to get the tax credit but I installed the to save money!

    Hal is my new hero.

  • motomoron

    Feb. 11, 2012 2:39 p.m. motomoron Dork

    We're DINKs in DC.

    I've got a renewing contract doing laboratory automation for an arm of NIH and my wife is a director at the TV channel of that magazine w/ the yellow border around the cover. I also have a very small company which pays for my machine shop some.

    We bought a falling-down house in a fantastic neighborhood (median house price in the zip code close to a million $) for a quarter of that in 2000 and I worked like an Egyptian slave for years renovating. Last year we sold it for $625k and bought a big mid-century rambler w/ room for a real machine shop plus a 26x32 garage. It's in a wonderful area and while it wasn't a sh1tty as house #1, its a 2 year renovation. Since we banked close to 400k on the sale of #1, we splurged and paid someone to refinish the hardwood floors+lay new wood in the extension, and installed awesome modern silver anodized aluminum Windows. But everything else is 100% me. I've skimmed every square foot of wall and ceiling and retrimmed every foot of base and casing in the house. My wife drives a 10 year old Audi A4, I have a 10 year old Tacoma that's also my race hauler. I make enough to club race a D Sports racer w/ SCCA but right now am so overextended on time building a new master bathroom that having the car ready for April 21 is looking dicy. So, we've got an awesome house and great toys, and have terrific jobs, but between working on my job, my clients, our house and vehicles, a company and finally a shop and race effort... It's routinely a 14+ hour day. I love it, but sometimes I wonder where the simple went.

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