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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » I <3 rat rods

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Nov. 30, 2009 11:58 p.m. Lugnut Reader

I hope this isn't a really dumb question. I know everyone on the HAMB is vehemently anti-rat rod. I understand the rat rods they don't like: perfectly good metal made rusty, beer kegs used as fuel kegs, actual revolvers used as pistol grip shifters, spider webs everywhere...

But when I think about a "rat rod" my thoughts go to a decent but definitely not pretty, solid, fast, hot rod. Instead of candy colored super shiney mirror deep paint, it's natural rusty patina, maybe with some primer on it, with highlights of brand new parts like the rusty original frame with beautiful brand new axles in super fresh powdercoat or something.

Am I way off the mark here?
Dec. 1, 2009 12:20 a.m. alex Dork

You're about right. The 'rat rod' thing caught on so fast that it quickly became a parody of itself, that's why the HAMBers turned their back on the term. (That and it's one more thing to be snooty about...) I'm with you on your definition, but I think we're in the minority when it comes to the 'real' hot rod circles.
Dec. 1, 2009 12:23 a.m. alex Dork

DirtyBird222 posted this hotness:

Words do not exist in the English language to do justice to the awesome that is this van. I think the sound of my jaw hitting my knees just woke up my girlfriend in the other room. The only possible way it could be cooler is if it were brown.
Dec. 1, 2009 8:42 a.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

Lugnut wrote: I hope this isn't a really dumb question. I know everyone on the HAMB is vehemently anti-rat rod. I understand the rat rods they don't like: perfectly good metal made rusty, beer kegs used as fuel kegs, actual revolvers used as pistol grip shifters, spider webs everywhere...

That's the problem...some of those cars have become a parody of the original idea. Plus, they tend to have questionable build quality; I've seen some of them I would be scared to drive around the block in.
Dec. 1, 2009 8:59 a.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

that econoline van was mint as well. I would totally rock it around town. Pedobear style and all.
Dec. 1, 2009 9:17 a.m. cwh SuperDork

I really like the old, first generation, vans. Had both an Econoline and a Dodge for a while. The Dodge, short wheelbase, slant 6, 3 on the tree, was actually quick. Not too good in strong crosswinds.
Dec. 1, 2009 10:01 a.m. Jensenman MegaDork

For some reason, I keep thinking pre-68 Econoline with an Explorer 5.0 stuffed in it and late Explorer SLA front suspension and disc brake rear axle underneath. That would make a very interesting tow rig IMHO. The worst part: I know where a pretty solid early Econoline sits.

This is very close to how I'd want it to look:
Dec. 1, 2009 1:16 p.m. poopshovel UltraDork

Dear god, those things are sexy. Not a big fan of the wheel choice or roof racks there, but otherwise awesome.

Yeah, there was a discussion a while back on what's a "real" rat-rod, the silliness of building a cheap piece of E36 M3, then buying $100 designer jeans, listening to rockabilly, etc., so that you can be part of the "scene." berkeley that. I guess it's "Too hip to be cool" right now, but berkeley it. I like what I like. I'm really excited about getting the Rusteevuh done. If it turns out like I picture it in my head, it'll incorporate everything I love about the rat-rod "look," with everything I like about having a small, light car that can berkeleying destroy $100,000+ supercars.

...I should really get on that.
Dec. 1, 2009 3:34 p.m. Rusnak_322 Reader

The only thing better then having a car that makes normal people look at you weird is having one that gets those self righteous HAMBOs panties in a knot.

Besides, how can I let some self proclaimed judge of cool cars tell me that this doesn't just rock?
Dec. 1, 2009 4:21 p.m. hotrodlarry Reader

alex wrote:

DirtyBird222 posted this hotness:

Words do not exist in the English language to do justice to the awesome that is this van. I think the sound of my jaw hitting my knees just woke up my girlfriend in the other room. The only possible way it could be cooler is if it were brown.

No way man.... green for the money, gold for the honeys.
Dec. 1, 2009 8:00 p.m. Rufledt Reader

hotrodlarry wrote:

alex wrote:

DirtyBird222 posted this hotness:

Words do not exist in the English language to do justice to the awesome that is this van. I think the sound of my jaw hitting my knees just woke up my girlfriend in the other room. The only possible way it could be cooler is if it were brown.

No way man.... green for the money, gold for the honeys.

i got an old econoline thats brown AND gold! its not this old, though, so it's not as cool.
Dec. 1, 2009 8:22 p.m. Carson Dork

This could make a good start for someone:

antique, classic, collectible 1969 Ford Econoline window van - $1600 (Raleigh, NC)

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/1488162832.html

Not mine, etc.
Dec. 1, 2009 8:25 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

Jensenman wrote:

ignorant wrote:

purely hydraulic steering is illegal in nearly every state. Wait till a savy trooper sees that car...

But drive by wire is OK.

Its the lack of a mechanical link. Electric assist steering is OK, but as far as I know there is no steering with a complete disconnection.
Dec. 1, 2009 10:42 p.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

i dont pay attention to a lot.....someone inform me on the HAMBs..HAMBOs? hwho? and hwhat? are they?
Dec. 2, 2009 12:21 a.m. Appleseed Dork

Lugnut wrote:

I hope this isn't a really dumb question. I know everyone on the HAMB is vehemently anti-rat rod. I understand the rat rods they don't like: perfectly good metal made rusty, beer kegs used as fuel kegs, actual revolvers used as pistol grip shifters, spider webs everywhere...

But when I think about a "rat rod" my thoughts go to a decent but definitely not pretty, solid, fast, hot rod. Instead of candy colored super shiney mirror deep paint, it's natural rusty patina, maybe with some primer on it, with highlights of brand new parts like the rusty original frame with beautiful brand new axles in super fresh powdercoat or something.

Am I way off the mark here?

No, what you've described is a hotrod. Rat rodz (always with a Z) are poorly finished simply for shock value. Rather than figure out a smart way to do it, they'd booger weld leaf springs directly to the frame, and use Craftsman swivel sockets for steering universal joints. No, I'm not making any of that up. That's often were most of the backlash comes from. To many people, any old hotrod, whether well built or not, is a rat. That is a disservice to those who care about style and safety.

HAMB is The Hokey Ass Message Board of the Jalopy Journal. The place to be for all things traditional hot rodding.
Dec. 2, 2009 5:59 a.m. JoeyM Reader

The part I admire about the "rat rod" folks is their willingness to build a car - and usually one that I really like - out of what they find on hand. I like that better than the "traditional" rod guys on the H.A.M.B. who will whine if the car is not period correct; i.e. who think you are "wrong" if your car has disk brakes or radial tires.

If you are trying to build a street rod on the cheap, it just doesn't make sense to restrict yourself to 50 year old parts that are harder to find and which probably are not as effective, anyway. Building a fun car on the cheap is often very different from being "period correct". Think of Andy Nelson's "bug" from this year's challenge. Parts of that car were very old.....parts came from a washing machine. Use whatever works to get the job done and build a car that will work for your particular passtime/application.

FWIW, I don't like near-undriveable nature or dangerous build quality of some "rat" type cars, but I dislike the other extreme, too. I was at a car show in Ocala a few years back where the best-in-show winner was a trailer queen '41 willys replica with an LSx drive train and a heavily tweaked and modified fiberglass body. The car rode so low (approx 1-1.5" clearance) that it was unable to drive from grass to sidewalk when the owner drove it to the stage to get his trophy. He had a buttload of money in that car, and could not drive it anywhere.
Dec. 2, 2009 6:38 a.m. carzan Reader

DirtyBird222 wrote:

what about the 1600hp mustang? you guys opposed to that? or the 59 coupe de ville?

Not to be a nitpicker, but that ain't a '59.

THIS is a '59:
Dec. 2, 2009 8:54 a.m. orphancars New Reader

JoeyM wrote:

FWIW, I don't like near-undriveable nature or dangerous build quality of some "rat" type cars, but I dislike the other extreme, too. I was at a car show in Ocala a few years back where the best-in-show winner was a trailer queen '41 willys replica with an LSx drive train and a heavily tweaked and modified fiberglass body. The car rode so low (approx 1-1.5" clearance) that it was unable to drive from grass to sidewalk when the owner drove it to the stage to get his trophy. He had a buttload of money in that car, and could not drive it anywhere.

I agree with everything Joey M wrote above, but had to pull this one out specifically. I've been to outdoor "cruise-in" car shows. The local show and shines. There is one in particular that attracts 300-500 cars. I'm amazed at the number of cars that are trailered in. This is a local show, no money, just little plaques......and we're trailering things in??

Was also at a local indoor show with one of my cars and noticed a car being pushed into place. Car was trailered in to the hall, pushed off the trailer and into its space. Friend of mine who is way into the local show and shine scene was with me watching the spectacle, nudges me and says, "no or pistons or rods in that thing!" After the show was over and everyone was leaving I saw the folks back up the trailer to this car, undo a winch lead, and pull the car into the trailer......
Dec. 2, 2009 12:43 p.m. Appleseed Dork

Actually, many of the guys on the HAMB are OK with disc brakes and radials. Most won't even say anything about a modern 5 speed tranny.

I think you're lumping all of the rodders in with the period correct guys. Those guys will take a specific time period, and tailor the entire build around that date. Very hard and very expensive. But way cool.

Think of what was done with the Challenge Karmen Giha.
Dec. 2, 2009 12:46 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

Here's a prime example of when they go to extremes...I saw this car at a show a couple summers ago. There weren't any hydraulics or anything in it either, that's the actual ride height. I have no idea how they could drive the thing on anything but a glass smooth parking lot.
Dec. 2, 2009 1:13 p.m. NYG95GA SuperDork

That's a wild thing there.. both cool and crazy at the same time. My favorite uncle talks fondly about the old days of rodding.. he and his buddies put flathead Fords into WW2 Jeeps, '49 Caddy engines in '39 Mercs, etc. Some of them went OK in a straight line, but not a one of them could handle a corner without sliding off into the ditch. There were few paved roads at that time, so it happened a lot.

By his own reckoning, even he doesn't know how he survived.
Dec. 2, 2009 8:18 p.m. DirtyBird222 Dork

ok well the caddy is a series 63 same as the 59 so whatev

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