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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » I have too many expensive hobbies...

March 27, 2011 10:42 a.m. cxhb HalfDork

I'll just ask right up front for those who don't want to read. AK74 or AR15?

I went shooting about a week ago and it was the first time I had been in about 3 years. Now I remember why I used to go all the time. I had a blast.

A couple of friends of mine have got into assault rifles big time and I never really understood the draw. Until I tried out a friends AK74 and then another friends AR15. I'm contemplating purchasing one or the other and cant seem too decide on what to get.

Ive kind of come up with pros and cons of each but I feel like its all going to boil down to how cheap it is to shoot. 5.45x39 is REALLY cheap in surplus compared to NATO/.223. There is also the option of buying an AR and then buying a .22 upper so then I can shoot the NATO rounds if I feel like it, or I can plink ALL day on .22 for super cheap... But of course that means up front cost will be very high...

Both have high fun factor, and the AR can be tactiCOOLed out with accessories but I highly doubt I'm going to need or ever use a flashlight or anything like that so I probably wont do a whole lot of that...

So GRMers that are also gun enthusiasts, what are your experiences? Any suggestions?
March 27, 2011 11:07 a.m. Osterkraut SuperDork

AR-15, you communist.
March 27, 2011 11:23 a.m. cxhb HalfDork

In reply to Osterkraut:

Haha... I figured that would come along at some point.
March 27, 2011 12:31 p.m. Will HalfDork

The AR15 is probably the most versatile small arm ever created. You can make it into just about anything you want, from a home defense SBR to an 800-yard varmint rifle. The AR is way more accurate than an AK, and for typical range use it will be just as reliable. The extra price is more than worth it.
March 27, 2011 12:42 p.m. mattmacklind SuperDork

Why is it always a which one question? Just plan on getting at least one of each. I love it when a friend poo-poos a purchase I make as if it were the last gun-buy that will ever happen again.
March 27, 2011 5:21 p.m. cxhb HalfDork

mattmacklind wrote:

Why is it always a which one question? Just plan on getting at least one of each. I love it when a friend poo-poos a purchase I make as if it were the last gun-buy that will ever happen again.

I'd love to buy one of each. Unfortunately, my bank account doesnt love it lol.
March 27, 2011 5:28 p.m. JtspellS Reader

Yeah basically do you want to hit something or make a bunch of noise?

AR-15 is probably the best over all, AK is great for blowing holes in things and wasting rounds quick but they are bad ass in their own way.
March 27, 2011 5:54 p.m. cxhb HalfDork

JtspellS wrote:

Yeah basically do you want to hit something or make a bunch of noise?

AR-15 is probably the best over all, AK is great for blowing holes in things and wasting rounds quick but they are bad ass in their own way.

The biggest thing to me here is fun/dollar ratio. I didnt think the AK I had used was THAT inaccurate. Sure, generally the more rugged a firearm is the less accurate it tends to be but it wasnt so horrible that I was completely turned off by it...

If I do go AK my concern is the 5.45x39 ammunition seems to be of limited manufacturers. Not a whole lot of people make it. Whereas the 5.56 NATO and .223 tend to be all over the place, but VERY pricey. I'll hopefully be pricing both guns out this week and talking to a local store about it.
March 27, 2011 6:31 p.m. Will HalfDork

Okay, what's your definition of "VERY pricey"? If you're paying more than 30 cents a round for .223 brass-cased plinking ammo, you're doing it wrong.
March 27, 2011 7:34 p.m. huge-O-chavez SuperDork

I'd look at the cost of ammo(I know nothing about black rifles). Which one is cheaper to feed down the road? The cost of the arm can be dialed up or down based upon what you want, but in the end its the cost of the ammo that will kill it.

If you can't afford to shoot it regularly, it's not worth your time. That's my thought on guns.

Can't you get 22LR conversions for the AR? Something to think about.....
March 27, 2011 7:43 p.m. mattmacklind SuperDork

cxhb wrote:

mattmacklind wrote:

Why is it always a which one question? Just plan on getting at least one of each. I love it when a friend poo-poos a purchase I make as if it were the last gun-buy that will ever happen again.

I'd love to buy one of each. Unfortunately, my bank account doesnt love it lol.

Think long term! I've been wanting a CETME for four years. I'm finally buying one this summer. You'll end up with both if guns if shooting is a long term interes anyway. Besides, a decent AK can be had for $400. Check out Nutnfancy on youtube. He has a comparison between the two that is two hours long. Then you can browse his other videos for sheer entertainment.
March 27, 2011 7:45 p.m. cxhb HalfDork

huge-O-chavez wrote:

I'd look at the cost of ammo(I know nothing about black rifles). Which one is cheaper to feed down the road? The cost of the arm can be dialed up or down based upon what you want, but in the end its the cost of the ammo that will kill it.

If you can't afford to shoot it regularly, it's not worth your time. That's my thought on guns.

Can't you get 22LR conversions for the AR? Something to think about.....

Yup. Thats why I was even considering the AR. I can get 1080rds of 5.45x39 for the AK for $130. .22 would be even cheaper. BUT, I would need to buy an AR, which of course has an upper and lower complete, THEN buy an AR upper again. Kind of redundant and expensive. But then again I have the choice betweem which ammunition I'd like to use. Big bang, high price. Or small bang, cheap price.

With the AK its just one choice... Kind of just talked myself into the AR. But I'm still hesitant because of the high initial cost.
March 27, 2011 7:45 p.m. huge-O-chavez SuperDork

mattmacklind wrote: Check out Nutnfancy on youtube.

"Jimping.. There's no jimping on this knife.. "
March 27, 2011 7:46 p.m. cxhb HalfDork

mattmacklind wrote:

cxhb wrote:

mattmacklind wrote:

Why is it always a which one question? Just plan on getting at least one of each. I love it when a friend poo-poos a purchase I make as if it were the last gun-buy that will ever happen again.

I'd love to buy one of each. Unfortunately, my bank account doesnt love it lol.

Think long term! I've been wanting a CETME for four years. I'm finally buying one this summer. You'll end up with both if guns if shooting is a long term interes anyway. Besides, a decent AK can be had for $400. Check out Nutnfancy on youtube. He has a comparison between the two that is two hours long. Then you can browse his other videos for sheer entertainment.

HA I stumbled upon that earlier. His videos are pretty informative. And lengthy.
March 28, 2011 2:32 a.m. lewbud Reader

Whichever one you buy, check to see what ammo your local ranges allow. Most of the cheap AK and AR ammo is steel cored, so the range may not allow it to be used (they don't in the ones I go to in Dallas/Fort Worth, the steel cored stuff is tough on equipment).
March 28, 2011 6:57 a.m. cxhb HalfDork

lewbud wrote:

Whichever one you buy, check to see what ammo your local ranges allow. Most of the cheap AK and AR ammo is steel cored, so the range may not allow it to be used (they don't in the ones I go to in Dallas/Fort Worth, the steel cored stuff is tough on equipment).

The bigger indoor ranges in my area wont allow assault rifles. I believe an AR with the .22 upper would be fine though. I usually go shooting at outdoor ranges which are open to pretty much anything or a friends place who has quite a bit of property.
March 28, 2011 8:57 a.m. Brotus7 Reader

A friend of mine has an AK74 from Century and although it's fun to shoot, at the same time, it kinda sucks. His rifle can't hit the broad side of a barn at 100 yards, plain and simple. Maybe it's just his (or the fact that Century doesn't have the best reputation), but unless shooting fast was your thing, I'd avoid the AK.

I've shot several AR's at 300 yards and with the right ammo, they hit pretty damn well. The AR is also likely to hold it's value, should you ever get bored and decide to sell it. Personally, I'm cheap and enjoy bolt action rifles. Old Mausers and my Savage MKII are my drugs of choice.
March 28, 2011 9:08 a.m. cwh SuperDork

Anybody here use a Mosin-Nagant? OK, not an auto, but they seem to have a good reputation and are cheap as dirt. Got some power, too.
March 28, 2011 9:10 a.m. cxhb HalfDork

In reply to Brotus7:

The Ak74 I shot wasn't that bad geez haha But then of course I wasnt 100 yards away so... might be a different story.
March 28, 2011 10:02 a.m. Strizzo SuperDork

you don't have to buy another complete upper to shoot .22lr in an AR, 130-200 bucks will get you a replacement bolt and 1-3 magazines. the bolt conversion won't be quite as accurate as a dedicated .22 upper, but you're not buying it to shoot matches anyways.
March 28, 2011 7:28 p.m. Drewsifer Dork

Nutnfancy: So I've never used this gun before but I really like it (Ok he's only done that a few times but still).

The AR vs AK debate is as old as time. Here are some bottom line things you need to know before you decide. First off, buy quality no matter what. That doesn't mean spend thousands, but buy from good companies. Secondly, the AR will always be more accurate than a comparable AK. But don't let that fool you, a good AK will shoot 2-3 MOA.

If you want affordable gun, you can hardly beat an AK74 style rifle. Like this one! http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct950.aspx

InterArms is a great company that produces good quality stuff. Plus, 5.45 is stupid cheap to shoot (http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/5.45x39mm, going for $0.15/round).

If you want an affordable AR, look at Del-Ton Inc, Model 1 Sales, and Spikes Tactical. These are all good companies that make very good products. Model 1 is a bit of a new kid on the AR block but they have a very good track record. However you can find glowing reviews of DTI and Spikes.

cwh said:
Anybody here use a Mosin-Nagant? OK, not an auto, but they seem to have a good reputation and are cheap as dirt. Got some power, too.

I have an M44 Mosin-Nagant (The carbine version with the bayonet). For a cheap rifle, you cannot beat the Mosin. You can pick up a 91/30 for around a $120, and buy a spam can of ammo for a few bucks (http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/7.62x54mm). However I would recommend getting an M44 or M38 if you can find one. The 91/30 is just 'HOly cow" huge and shooting it got old really quick. I paid $160 for my M44 and I love it.
March 28, 2011 7:34 p.m. EricM Dork

I would say AR-15, BUT, while I was in the Navy I spent some time Assigned to the 15th M.E.U. (Marine Expeditionary Unit) I supported the forward spotting officer (also Navy) to provide tactical environment (that is a fancy way of saying Weather and Oceanography). Anyway, the 6 marines that were in charge of keeping the forward spotting officer safe all carried AK-47, on of them even had a scope on it for the "shooter" of the team.

I only fired an AK-47 for 20 rounds, but it was remarkably accurate and tough as nails.

I myself carried a Colt 1911A1 as a side arm and a modified M-14.

If I were to get a recreational riffle it would be an AK. The riffle I do own (at my fathers house in the gun safe, not at home) is a .308 Winchester chambered Korean built "clone" of a M-14.
March 31, 2011 5:10 p.m. digdug18 Dork

Why must you choose, buy both. Depending on what your looking at you can find both for good prices.
March 31, 2011 5:32 p.m. rebelgtp SuperDork

Last weekend I took both the AK (Type 56) and AR (Plum Crazy Lower DPMS upper) and had a good ol' time shooting. The AR was the more accurate of the two though the AK was accurate enough to make me happy and that is saying something. I also let my girlfriend shoot both and she loved them both and wants one of each for herself now as well. The AK is a very durable gun that is tough as nails and can be more accurate than most people imagine.

I also took the 10/22 out and was getting .25 inch groups at 100 yards in high enough cross wind I was having to correct 6 inches to the left. I was shooting at a self healing groundhog target that belongs to my girl friend's step dad. She shot that as well and wants to build one for herself. I think I need a larger safe.

This coming weekend the plan is to take out the Mosin M44 scout rifle and my newly acquired Savage 111 in .300 Win Mag. More than likely the 10/22 will go out again and maybe this time I will take a pic of my target for our competition on here.
March 31, 2011 5:43 p.m. Will HalfDork

It's not a 74, but a friend of mine bought an Arsenal AK47 chambered in .223. Arsenal is Russian and supposed to be on the high end of AK makers, but I have never fired a less accurate weapon in my life. We're talking 12-inch groups at 200 yards here. We tried different ammo and different shooters from a benchrest. Nothing ever helped. Obviously, not all owners will have the same experience, but it made me wonder whether a $900 Arsenal is any better than a $400 WASR.

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