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cyclecam90
cyclecam90 New Reader
1/6/10 8:59 p.m.

My dad said that he might sell the NB and get a sporty DD. So after thinking new Mazda 3 (and of course the MS3) reality slapped us both in the head and 20 grand is a lot. So we decided to look in the 6000-7000 dollar range for a fun DD that we would both share. Anyway, I saw an EP3 Civic and remembered something that I really liked about my old EF (RIP). It doesn't need premium gas! I believe the k20 is pretty torquey, the 5 speed that came with the car I assume had rockin' ratios which helps too. I like hatchbacks and so do my bicycles.

But as much as a starving college kid loves Hondas, so does every thief. Also will it bring lots of police attention? The EF did and it only had decent wheels. I'm curious what you guys think about the EP3 and it would be great if some Honda folk could tell me if it is new enough and not rice worthy enough for me to panic when I park it anywhere? Thanks in advance.

MCarp22
MCarp22 Reader
1/6/10 9:01 p.m.

The 7th generation cars aren't as popular with the tuners since they're heavier and have struts up front.

CagleRacing
CagleRacing New Reader
1/6/10 9:17 p.m.

Our 1995 Honda Accord V6 was stolen from our driveway in Charleston, SC. There are certain model years that are very easy to steal. You just remove the ignition key assembly and insert a screwdriver to start the car. They passed on our then new, red 2003 Pontiac Grand Am V6 SC/T. My Corvettes are always garaged.

The thieves used a crowbar to pry open the door and took the car joy riding. The police recovered it at 4 am. There was plenty of damage and those who were caught had to reimburse us for everything that our insurance didn't cover. Since we had a claim, our insurance rates are still higher.

The police report said there were 5 young males in the car. Two got away, including one with a handgun that pointed it at an officer. I suspect the 3 who were caught were in the back seat and didn't realize we use the child locks on the rear doors.

As a deterrent, we now use the club on that car. It's my DD and serves as a tow vehicle for my F500 car.

Thieves and vandals will always be around. They don't always go for the nicer car, but may pass on something they know will take too much time to steal.

Steven Cagle

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
1/6/10 10:30 p.m.

the k20a3 is less popular with the tuners, and thus, less popular with the thieves than, say, a rsx-s or later civic Si.

certain year civics were really easy to get under the hood of, you just reach under the drivers fender and yank the hood cable out of its mounts and it pops the hood. the EP3 wasn't one of those years, iirc.

1slowcrx
1slowcrx Reader
1/6/10 11:14 p.m.

I'm sure it happens but I've never heard of an EP3 being stolen.

I have a friend you has and EP3 daily and an EF and the EF was stolen and they left the EP3... If that helps any

gamby
gamby SuperDork
1/7/10 12:36 a.m.
CagleRacing wrote: Two got away, including one with a handgun that pointed it at an officer.

Sad that they didn't get ended right there.

Anywho--the biggest issue w/ the early EP3's was that they were the first Civics that you couldn't slam to the ground without ruining them. AFAIK, the later ones can be lowered without as many adverse effects--I could be wrong, though.

Not having a true DOHC iVTEC is another strike, but in my older age, that means it's less likely to get stolen for the engine and it won't have to run on premium.

I think it would be damn good, utilitarian daily transportation. I'd still want to lower and re-shoe it, though.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/7/10 9:14 a.m.

They're good as boring daily drivers. Not a whole lot else. The motor is torquey. For a Honda. The ratios suck for the motor... just when it starts to really pull, it's time to shift.

Pony up for an RSX-S or a 2000-2005 Celica GTS. The celica is in the same exact price range, maybe cheaper, and will run circles around the EP3, both in straight line speed and handling, is far lighter, has 6 gears, a REAL motor, and returns about the same gas mileage.

GlennS
GlennS Dork
1/7/10 9:31 a.m.
93celicaGT2 wrote: They're good as boring daily drivers. Not a whole lot else. The motor is torquey. For a Honda. The ratios suck for the motor... just when it starts to really pull, it's time to shift. Pony up for an RSX-S or a 2000-2005 Celica GTS. The celica is in the same exact price range, maybe cheaper, and will run circles around the EP3, both in straight line speed and handling, is far lighter, has 6 gears, a REAL motor, and returns about the same gas mileage.

and with the celica you can pretend that deep down inside. Its really a lotus elise with a body kit. And nobody knows it but you.

integraguy
integraguy HalfDork
1/7/10 10:01 a.m.

As someone who has owned several different gen. Honda Civics...IF you really aren't too concerned about your car "being there" when you walk out to get in it in the morning (that is, you DON'T live in a high crime area) go the extra dollars for an RS-X as previous posters suggest. But if you really are concerned, the 02-05 Civic is, as you have guessed, NOT high on the list of most stolen Civics. It's a shame, but the (more practical) hatchback bodystyle nearly killed the Si's street cred.

TreoWayne
TreoWayne New Reader
1/7/10 11:03 a.m.

I had a base RSX for a while. The motor is torquey but way down on power compared to the RSX-S or the 06+ Civic Si.

No one steals EP3s because they look like minivans, aren't fast, and have crappy front suspensions.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/7/10 11:07 a.m.
GlennS wrote:
93celicaGT2 wrote: They're good as boring daily drivers. Not a whole lot else. The motor is torquey. For a Honda. The ratios suck for the motor... just when it starts to really pull, it's time to shift. Pony up for an RSX-S or a 2000-2005 Celica GTS. The celica is in the same exact price range, maybe cheaper, and will run circles around the EP3, both in straight line speed and handling, is far lighter, has 6 gears, a REAL motor, and returns about the same gas mileage.

and with the celica you can pretend that deep down inside. Its really a lotus elise with a body kit. And nobody knows it but you.

OH man... i wish i had thought of that. I'm so buying one today!!!!!

Travis_K
Travis_K Dork
1/7/10 1:34 p.m.

I havent ever driven one, but its interesting everyone says they perform poorly, becasue I have seen one at an autocross a few times running in stock class with regular street tires that was running times that would have been competitive with the spec civics in STS. I am sure the driver has alot to do with it, but it was still pretty impressive. Although i havent driven one, I am pretty sure they perform more than well enough for any type of driving appropriate for the street, and appear to be at least locally competitive in autocross if driven well. Since they are so unusual (I see one about every 6 months other than a couple at school) , it would probably avoid the theft potential, police attention, and immature bad driver stereotypes that are issues with most other honda products.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/7/10 1:39 p.m.
Travis_K wrote: I havent ever driven one, but its interesting everyone says they perform poorly, becasue I have seen one at an autocross a few times running in stock class with regular street tires that was running times that would have been competitive with the spec civics in STS. I am sure the driver has alot to do with it, but it was still pretty impressive. Although i havent driven one, I am pretty sure they perform more than well enough for any type of driving appropriate for the street, and appear to be at least locally competitive in autocross if driven well. Since they are so unusual (I see one about every 6 months other than a couple at school) , it would probably avoid the theft potential, police attention, and immature bad driver stereotypes that are issues with most other honda products.

They do all of those things. But they are anything but a good value when compared to most of their direct competitors in that price range.

That driver was definitely amazing, or the STS drivers sucked. The at the limit handling of these things stock is nothing short of horrifying.

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
1/7/10 2:00 p.m.

yeah, the front strut setup has very little caster, and not much room to add static camber, so they tend to plow at the limit. in order to get them to turn in, people had to run big front sways, but then to get them to pull out of the corners (open diff), they needed a softer front sway. not sure if the ep3 is the same way, but the rsx was limited by its 3-channel abs system. lift a rear tire, and the rear brakes shut off, ending any trail-braking rotation you thought was going to be continuing.

motomoron
motomoron Reader
1/7/10 8:29 p.m.

No one likes them, ergo no one steals them.

I liked mine alot, but it took Koni yellows/progress springs+frt. bar/SiR rear bar/Ingalls camber bolts to make it handle. And a Jackson blower to make it go.

Buying a '98 M3 - e36 was the biggest improvement though.

cyclecam90
cyclecam90 New Reader
1/8/10 1:35 a.m.

Man harsh hahaha. So no love for the EP3? Thanks for the good information. I didn't realize that they had such a handling deficiency. 93celica is right though, for the price there are better options in it's class. I really really really love the Celica GTS. It fits me well and I like the lack of "tuner street cred" that it attracts. At least I assume. I loved driving my Honda but being 19 in a 20 year old car seems to attract stereotypes from everyone, including the police. I live in Northern California and the fast and furious types left a bad lingering taste around I guess. I thought that scene died awhile ago but I guess not. Regardless, thanks for filling me in on the Civic. I feel sad, I thought the car had a good shape and an interesting design.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/8/10 5:40 a.m.
cyclecam90 wrote: Man harsh hahaha. So no love for the EP3? Thanks for the good information. I didn't realize that they had such a handling deficiency. 93celica is right though, for the price there are better options in it's class. I really really really love the Celica GTS. It fits me well and I like the lack of "tuner street cred" that it attracts. At least I assume. I loved driving my Honda but being 19 in a 20 year old car seems to attract stereotypes from everyone, including the police. I live in Northern California and the fast and furious types left a bad lingering taste around I guess. I thought that scene died awhile ago but I guess not. Regardless, thanks for filling me in on the Civic. I feel sad, I thought the car had a good shape and an interesting design.

It does have a good shape, and an interesting design, if you ever wondered what a 2/3rds scale 2-door Odyssey looked like.

The 7th gen Celica GTS is (at least in my opinion) among the all time Elite FWD 4 banger cars. They avoided the "street tuner cred" aspect simply because the previous FWD Celicas weren't that special, and the existing support wasn't there like it was with the Civic/Integra/RSX of the time. New chassis, new motor, new transmission, there was no real existing base.

That said, if you want to make some serious power with it down the road, the groundwork has been laid. People are now getting well over 200whp out of that motor with bolt ons, keeping stock bottom end, still n/a. The 2zzge is a VASTLY underrated screamer of a 1.8 litre motor.

The weight and handling don't lie, either.

Go get one!

MCarp22
MCarp22 Reader
1/8/10 8:34 a.m.

Do you guys live in a world where the celica didn't come with the "Action Package" or something?

paul
paul New Reader
1/8/10 5:46 p.m.

In reply to 93celicaGT2:

Horrible engine powerband/redline though, very hard to stay in the power, even on a track...

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/8/10 5:53 p.m.
paul wrote: In reply to 93celicaGT2: Horrible engine powerband/redline though, very hard to stay in the power, even on a track...

2002-2003, yes. Other years are way easier. And if it's still hard, that's what a PFC is for.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/8/10 5:55 p.m.
MCarp22 wrote: Do you guys live in a world where the celica didn't come with the "Action Package" or something?

I was OK with the Action Package, until i saw those sideskirts. ARRRRGGGG WTF ARE THOSE?!?!?!?!

paul
paul New Reader
1/8/10 5:55 p.m.

In reply to 93celicaGT2:

Ah ok... I drove a 2002, finally started making useable power at 6k, redline was around 7.7k
I never understood the price tag on them either...

Loved the handling, looks and interior though!

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
1/8/10 6:12 p.m.
paul wrote: In reply to 93celicaGT2: Ah ok... I drove a 2002, finally started making useable power at 6k, redline was around 7.7k I never understood the price tag on them either... Loved the handling, looks and interior though!

Yeah, the other years will go over 8000 by a decent amount, so you don't always fall out of lift.

The price tag is now coming in line that they're a great deal against their competition. They aren't THAT far away from the ITR, and they're often less than half the price. I've been seeing clean ones going for $6k now.

Hasbro
Hasbro HalfDork
1/14/10 12:32 a.m.

I have an 04 EP3 Si and love the car. I've owned 50 or 60 cars, mostly British, and started buying Hondas to have a dependable car around while messing with my beloved little toys. Seven Acuras and Hondas later, I intend to keep this one forever as my dd and Track Days car and then build my dream car as the real toy.

There are some lukewarm feelings towards the EP3 here due to the fact that we were sent the wimpiest version. Check out this video and you will get an idea of it's potential with some R type upgrades. My EP is about half way there and it feels like a different car (it will also be considerably lighter than an R):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6BTrKmyAAc

The K20A3 can now be pretty economically built to the 200 whp na range. It's being called the VTec Killer Head. After that is forced or a K20/K24 swap.

Here's some info re. turning the Si into a great car:

http://forums.clubep3.net/showthread.php?t=681861

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
1/14/10 4:51 a.m.

I'm interested in one for a daily after my current civic gets too long in the tooth. Good info here.

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