I have a problem with people that spew lies and BS all over the place about people or companies, especially when they don't have any factual basis for their rants. Then when I get accused of being a fanboy or some sort of preacher on a soapbox for defending them. Pinchvalve came off of the soapbox and started to see the light, now we're able to engauge in good conversation. You're still out in left field and now you're throwing personal insults out and then telling us to lighten up? Get a clue!
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Jan. 20, 2009 9:15 p.m. P71 HalfDork
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Jan. 20, 2009 9:24 p.m. ignorant PowerDork
P71 wrote:
I have a problem with people that spew lies and BS all over the place about people or companies, especially when they don't have any factual basis for their rants. Then when I get accused of being a fanboy or some sort of preacher on a soapbox for defending them. Pinchvalve came off of the soapbox and started to see the light, now we're able to engauge in good conversation. You're still out in left field and now you're throwing personal insults out and then telling us to lighten up? Get a clue!
come on man.. just because I tried to apply some of my MBa learnings to this.... HA...
you need to go reread some of my posts. Find a place where I spew BS and Lies.. then we'll talk.
re read my first post in this thread.. You're like in some crazy internet rage you're not seeing the forest for the trees.
seacrest out.
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Jan. 20, 2009 9:32 p.m. P71 HalfDork
I wasn't referring to you on the BS and lies, but pinchy, whom I already said has realized his ignorance and is now engaging in meaningful conversation. I was referring to you with the fanboy and left field comments.
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Jan. 20, 2009 10:49 p.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork
P71 wrote:
The only Tundra I've ever ridden in was horribly uncomfortable (the seats really, really suck) and towed worse than my Nissan Hardbody. It did have a little "pep" but was not fast by any stretch (except maybe against a Ford). It did hold a TON of crap and had a nice looking interior. Wouldn't be a half bad cruiser if they'd change out those ridiculous seats!
The only Tundra I've spent any time in was comfortable enough. The seats weren't spectacular,but not bad. The 380 HP / 400 Ft-lbs was a hoot though. A 6.3 second 0-60 time in something that big is just plain fast. That's within 1/2 second of my WRX. Hell - we beat one of our buddies to 60 while he was in his racecar and we were towing ours. While towing a "normal" load (~4,000# car and trailer with another 1000# in the bed) you can't tell you're towing. Set the cruise control at whatever speed you're comfortable (the truck owner was comfortable towing at 90...) and just go. It starts to sag a bit under heavier loads (at least 10,000# enclosed) but we were at or (probably) beyond the specs for that.
Now, I'm not a Toyota fanboi. I suspect that if I were buying a new truck I'd end up in a crewcab Silverado with the Duramax and Allison. But that doesn't mean that the Tundra is not also a spectacular vehicle in it's own right.
Also, the 4 door with the sliding rear glass is capable of scoring 3 points at once in Lunar tag, though I imagine any of them would be fine for that. :)
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Jan. 20, 2009 10:56 p.m. wherethefmi2000 Reader
P71 wrote:
The 4.6 likes to be supercharged and it's still a steaming pile of dog poo too. Cam gears should not fly off, period (listening Ford designer of the V8 SHO?).
pssst it was yamaha and cosworth that made that jewel of an engine
For 1996, the SHO was redesigned. Unlike its predecessors, this SHO was more refined and used less radical bodywork. It differed from the normal Taurus with different seats, wheels, bumpers, drivetrain, as well as a fin being put on the driver's side windshield wiper, to keep it on the windshield at high speeds. A 235 hp (175 kW) aluminum 3.4L V8 engine with heads from Yamaha and block from Cosworth was specified for the SHO model, but it was given the same four speed transmission as the LX: the manual gearbox option was no longer offered on the SHO.[10] Separation of the camshaft from its sprocket has been implicated in a growing number of engine failures, at around the 50,000 mile (80,000 km) mark.[11] The standard warranty on this model was 36,000 miles (58,000 km). This problem can be rectified by having the camshafts welded.[11] This SHO model sold in lower numbers than the previous SHO generations, with sales peaking at 9,000 units in 1997.[4] As a result, Ford cut the SHO when redesigning the Taurus for its fourth generation.
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Jan. 21, 2009 2:18 a.m. Wally UltraDork
DirtyBird222 wrote:
The meter made at UCF wrote me a ticket and confused my Fit for a f'ing Hyundai WTF
It could be worse, I once confused my neighbor's Corolla with a port-a-john
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Jan. 21, 2009 6:44 a.m. ignorant PowerDork
P71 wrote:
I wasn't referring to you on the BS and lies, but pinchy, whom I already said has realized his ignorance and is now engaging in meaningful conversation. I was referring to you with the fanboy and left field comments.
www.quickmba.com My comments were not left field. They're spot on. Marketing matrix.. 4P's
Price. Product. Placement. Promotion.Find me a FanBoi comment in this thread that i said... please. do it.
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Jan. 21, 2009 9:09 a.m. mtn Dork
Wally wrote:
DirtyBird222 wrote:
The meter made at UCF wrote me a ticket and confused my Fit for a f'ing Hyundai WTF
It could be worse, I once confused my neighbor's Corolla with a port-a-john
Wally, was this before or after you relieved yourself?
Wait, wait, I don't want to know
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Jan. 21, 2009 9:16 a.m. P71 HalfDork
ignorant wrote:
Find me a FanBoi comment in this thread that i said... please. do it.
Um, easy? Look up this page?
"ignorant -
I agree with dave and belive he is just as blind to the data as he acuses the h8'ers to be.. This guy is not a fanboy but THE fANb01 for american vehicles. If Club4ag, nicoclub, or honda-tech had an american counterpart.. This guy is an admin on it.. "
Wasn't that hard. Got anything else?
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Jan. 21, 2009 9:21 a.m. ignorant PowerDork
P71 wrote:
ignorant wrote:
Find me a FanBoi comment in this thread that i said... please. do it.
Um, easy? Look up this page?
"ignorant -
I agree with dave and belive he is just as blind to the data as he acuses the h8'ers to be.. This guy is not a fanboy but THE fANb01 for american vehicles. If Club4ag, nicoclub, or honda-tech had an american counterpart.. This guy is an admin on it.. "
Wasn't that hard. Got anything else?
thought you were reffering to me as a fanboi. HA...... I still believe you are being one. Same attitude.
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Jan. 21, 2009 9:48 a.m. P71 HalfDork
Fanboys love a manufacturer/car no matter the negatives. Haters hate a manufacturer/car no matter the positives. I'm defending three (mostly, Chrysler needs help coughFIATcough) against a hater. That doesn't make me a fanboy. I've agreed with their problems from the 80's/90's and their horrible dealer and service networks. I've repeatedly mentioned items that need help (Chrysler's interiors, Ford's V8's, GM's micro-cars, etc). I'm not even a fanboy of my own cars! (Seriously, does anybody bitch about the 4.6 more than me?) Please have your facts straight before you accuse people of stuff.
Your four P's is still way out in left field. This thread focused entirely on the Product. If you want to talk about Promotion, start a new thread. I'll put it this way, if we were having an argument about Mazda who has 4 sports cars (RX7, Miata, RX8, and MS3) and the thread is entirely about Miata's and you keep referring to the MS3, you are out in left field. The MS3 (Promotion) has no effect on the Miata (Product) in this context.
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Jan. 21, 2009 9:55 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader
P71 wrote:
The only Tundra I've ever ridden in was horribly uncomfortable (the seats really, really suck) and towed worse than my Nissan Hardbody. It did have a little "pep" but was not fast by any stretch (except maybe against a Ford). It did hold a TON of crap and had a nice looking interior. Wouldn't be a half bad cruiser if they'd change out those ridiculous seats!
What year was it? And what motor... If you came away like that, i guarantee it wasn't a current one with a 5.7. That truck is a MONSTER in terms of how stupidly fast it is. I got wasted in a B20z swapped EK hatch with a fully built head at the drag strip by one.
To put this in perspective, i ran a 14.3 in the hatch.
All the guy had done to his was intake and exhaust.
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Jan. 21, 2009 9:58 a.m. P71 HalfDork
New one, but the V6. The hokey 2WD that looks like a 4x4 (PreRunner?). Again, with better seats it would be a good cruiser, but as a truck I'd take a 1971 anything (Ford, Chevy, Jeep, whatever) over any new truck.
As an aside there's a guy with a new VortecMAX GMC in the club I drag race with. He went 13's on an intake and tune and added a blower over the winter. How's 11's sound? That truck is a monster!
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:01 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork
I passed a 71 Ford 100 this morning with a bed full of firewood. I had a 71 Ford 100 with a 302 once. That was a tough truck. Much tougher than the 67 Chevy I had.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:06 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader
P71 wrote:
Fanboys love a manufacturer/car no matter the negatives. Haters hate a manufacturer/car no matter the positives. I'm defending three (mostly, Chrysler needs help coughFIATcough) against a hater. That doesn't make me a fanboy. I've agreed with their problems from the 80's/90's and their horrible dealer and service networks. I've repeatedly mentioned items that need help (Chrysler's interiors, Ford's V8's, GM's micro-cars, etc). I'm not even a fanboy of my own cars! (Seriously, does anybody bitch about the 4.6 more than me?) Please have your facts straight before you accuse people of stuff.
Your four P's is still way out in left field. This thread focused entirely on the Product. If you want to talk about Promotion, start a new thread. I'll put it this way, if we were having an argument about Mazda who has 4 sports cars (RX7, Miata, RX8, and MS3) and the thread is entirely about Miata's and you keep referring to the MS3, you are out in left field. The MS3 (Promotion) has no effect on the Miata (Product) in this context.
Dude, as much as i really don't honestly care, because in the end nobody is going to be swayed by a message board.... the fact that you continually call the Tundra a steaming pile of dog poo is rather h8erish and it makes you look like a fanboi for Cheby in particular, because that's the main truck you keep bringing up. You're defending the Big 3 by lashing out at Toyota in the majority of your posts.
I just haven't seen facts yet why the Silverado 1500 is any noticable amount better than the Tundra when similarly equipped.... And everyone who has experienced the Tundra so far in this thread seems to have nothing but good to say, except for you, and i question if you're even talking about the same Tundra.
If you want a cheaper work truck, then of course, buy a stripped out Silverado. I'd do the same. But in the world of $40k haulers, you HAVE to admit that the Tundra does damn well, and is more than relevent in the competition.
And that's all.
I'm not saying that it's 50 million times better than anything detroit has because OMFG detroit SUX LOL Japanese4lifey0! or anything like that.
Just that it's a very comparable and competitive truck.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:08 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader
P71 wrote:
New one, but the V6. The hokey 2WD that looks like a 4x4 (PreRunner?). Again, with better seats it would be a good cruiser, but as a truck I'd take a 1971 anything (Ford, Chevy, Jeep, whatever) over any new truck.
As an aside there's a guy with a new VortecMAX GMC in the club I drag race with. He went 13's on an intake and tune and added a blower over the winter. How's 11's sound? That truck is a monster!
Ok... so you're basing your experiences on a Tundra that really has nothing to do with the main discussion at hand.
You're comparing a V6 Tundra against a 6.0/6.2 Silverado it seems like. You drove a big Tacoma.... that's the long and short of it. You didn't drive a Tundra.
Do yourself and everyone on here a favor and go drive a new 5.7.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:17 a.m. Bobzilla Reader
That's OK, I don't need to. I can see no reason to spend $32k to get a 5.7.
OK, quick little rant off the topic of the trucks. . . .Pricing. Anyone taken a look at Toyoduh;s pricing? They are uber-inflated. BASE Camry's going for $23k, Corolloa's are close to $20k with any option. The Sienna is $26k wit nothing. And people are still buying it.
Now I am a big Hyundai fan. Owning 2, have 261k miles between the two with one bad trans (due to previous owner deciding to ignore the trans fluid for 130k miles) and lots of happy, cheap miles. You can but a Sonata 4cyl for $18 with the same options as that 23k camry, gets better mileage and looks nicer. Same with the Elantra, it's about 3-4k cheaper than the corolla, looks better, has more room and options. And unlike toyoduh, they offer 5/60 B2B and 10/100 powertrain warranties, meaning they actually stand behind their product.
Then there's the retarded notion that because it's a toyoduh (or honduh) it's fuel efficient. ORLY? Look at their trucks and SUV's. They are some of the thirstiest out there by the EPA numbers. How about that new RL, 16/21 window sticker. That was the same numbers on my Crew Cab GMC when I bought it. V6 Camry's getting 24mpg highway. . .
Seriously. People are no longer buying cars based on FACTS. They're buying by brand. Period.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:23 a.m. ignorant PowerDork
P71 wrote:
Your four P's is still way out in left field.
You know... That's really funny. It's incorrect, but funny. Through the 4P's you serve the needs or wants of the customer. Neglect the 4P's and you get Government bailouts.. HA!
I would suggest you go to business school or read quickmba.com Might help you see a more holistic approach to product management and development.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:26 a.m. P71 HalfDork
I don't like any new trucks, Chevy included. And $40K for a pickup is insane money, no matter the emblem in the grill. I said the Tundra made a good cruiser, had a nice interior (except the seats), and had a lot of storage. How was any of that bad? I said it fails as a "truck" (which it does by sales numbers) and that the engine was under-engineered (which by failures it is). If you want one, that's cool. Don't try to justify it by hard facts though as the Tundra just loses out. Want it because you want it.
I kept bringing up Toyota because that is the "golden standard" the media keeps putting forth, and I think that's wrong. I think Toyota has been in a nasty downward spiral (which even you Toyota guys seem to agree with). No MR-S, no Celica, no fun cars at all, under-engineering, drum brakes, overweight cars with bad gas mileage. Toyota used to be so much better!
I agree with everything Bobzilla just said.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:28 a.m. P71 HalfDork
ignorant, I don't need a fake MBA from say website, thanks. If you want to talk about the other three P's, then START A NEW THREAD! We were only discussing product here. That's why your comments are out of left field! And again, your precious Toyota and Honda got "bailouts" from their government too, so what's your point?
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:32 a.m. P71 HalfDork
I'd gladly test drive a new 5.7 Tundra if the Toyota dealer in my town wasn't such an shiny happy person. The last time I was there (last summer, looking at used cars for a family member) one of the slimy sales guys was withholding an old retired Vet's keys so he could "get an appraisal". A few customers walked out when the old guy started yelling "give me my keys back, I want to go home!". The manager finally got the guys keys, then we walked up to the manager and told him he just lost a sale and followed the old guy out. I'd like to say that's an isolated incident, but it's not. All of this guy's dealers are E36 M3 like that.
Sorry for the off-topic.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:41 a.m. ignorant PowerDork
P71 wrote:
ignorant, I don't need a fake MBA from say website, thanks. If you want to talk about the other three P's, then START A NEW THREAD! We were only discussing product here. That's why your comments are out of left field! And again, your precious Toyota and Honda got "bailouts" from their government too, so what's your point?
dude.. people don't buy based upon facts alone. They buy based upon opinion.. So therefore any discussion related solely to a products attributes cannot ignore the other aspects that influence peoples opinions of that product and its aforementioned attributes. sorry.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:44 a.m. P71 HalfDork
OK, so point to some hard data on people's opinions messing up the Big 3's sales or helping out Toyota's when their product is inferior. If you want to come in and bully everybody with off topics you might as well back it up. Don't give us theory, conjecture, and other nonsense, find some numbers! I'm sure you can dig up something on customer opinions with names and Alan Mulally and the 500/Taurus. Don't just tell us, show us.
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Jan. 21, 2009 10:52 a.m. Cotton Reader
I've owned 6 Toyotas, two 1st gen MR2s, one Celica GTS, two Supras (MKII and MKIV) and currently just picked up an 88 4x4 pickup as a field truck. I still have my diesel Dodge dually for the big truck needs, but the Toyota will fit the bill for things little 4x4s are good for like dragging firewood out of the woods etc.
I'm amazed at how small the little 88 pickup is. It looked like a toy behind the Dodge when I was towing it home. Heck a Tacoma dwarfs it. Toyota has had nothing for me after they killed the MKIV Supra. I think they are boring, over hyped, and overrated. I wanted to like the MR Spyder, but it just didn't have enough legroom, so I couldn't fit well enough in it to drive it. My first gen MR2s had plenty of legroom, so go figure. All mine were good cars, but had problems like any others and weren't any more reliable than any of my German or American cars......well except that one Audi we bought, but that is another story..... -
Jan. 21, 2009 10:53 a.m. ignorant PowerDork
P71 wrote:
OK, so point to some hard data on people's opinions messing up the Big 3's sales or helping out Toyota's when their product is inferior. If you want to come in and bully everybody with off topics you might as well back it up. Don't give us theory, conjecture, and other nonsense, find some numbers! I'm sure you can dig up something on customer opinions with names and Alan Mulally and the 500/Taurus. Don't just tell us, show us.
I did.. you didn't like my info from consumer reports.. So I presented info from businessweek showing brand equity which is a direct indicator of the customer opinion of a brand.
but hey.. it's ok.. I'll shut up now as I am over your head.
plus you like to call other people out for bullying but man.. you better start looking at yourself.
