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  • DILYSI Dave

    Feb. 9, 2009 4:34 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

    John Brown wrote:

    DILYSI Dave wrote:

    benzbaron wrote:

    If chrysler was smart they'd put you up in a car that is wasting away on the lot and try to entice you to do more business with them. When I had the subframe done on the benz under warranty I got to drive a new c230 for a week, cost 25$. Hard to go back to driving a funky 30year old car after that.

    I always wonder why that isn't the case. Seems like a pretty good sales technique.

    "Mr. Jones - your car is ready. That's going to be $697. By the way, how do you like the 2009 Wizzbang you've been driving? Just so you know, we appraised your current car at $7500, which makes payments on the Whizbang only $279 a month, and if you go ahead and do this deal, we can forget about that $697 service."

    I don't get paid to sell cars, I get paid off the $697.00 (about $104.55). If we were to internal that cost I would get about $34.85...

    Booo!

    Then it sounds like your GM isn't properly incentivizing the most important function, unless the most important function is the service.

  • ClemSparks

    Feb. 9, 2009 4:44 p.m. ClemSparks SuperDork

    My first thought is to suggest hitting CL and finding a beater.

    There's always a market for a $1,000 car, so you can unload it easily after you're done. Of course, you'll have to go through the hassle of licensing it and all that. If you buy something that needs a simple-to-do-yourself but costly-to-pay-a-mechanic-to-do type repair, you might even come out ahead in the situation.

    Search craigslist for Caravan with a price cap of $1K and write a story about the hilarity that ensues!

    Clem

  • Jensenman

    Feb. 9, 2009 7:22 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

    DILYSI Dave wrote:

    John Brown wrote:

    DILYSI Dave wrote:

    benzbaron wrote:

    If chrysler was smart they'd put you up in a car that is wasting away on the lot and try to entice you to do more business with them. When I had the subframe done on the benz under warranty I got to drive a new c230 for a week, cost 25$. Hard to go back to driving a funky 30year old car after that.

    I always wonder why that isn't the case. Seems like a pretty good sales technique.

    "Mr. Jones - your car is ready. That's going to be $697. By the way, how do you like the 2009 Wizzbang you've been driving? Just so you know, we appraised your current car at $7500, which makes payments on the Whizbang only $279 a month, and if you go ahead and do this deal, we can forget about that $697 service."

    I don't get paid to sell cars, I get paid off the $697.00 (about $104.55). If we were to internal that cost I would get about $34.85...

    Booo!

    Then it sounds like your GM isn't properly incentivizing the most important function, unless the most important function is the service.

    Take it from me: in this business you learn pretty quick that the vast majority of GMs view service as that dirty little secret out back and want as little as possible to do with it. Even if it hurts them.

    By the way, ww mentioned borrowing something off the lot. The problem: some sharp Esqs. have managed to turn that into a real problem. If someone is driving a car that belongs to the dealership and gets into an accident, there have been lawsuits which have cost dealerships dearly for trying to provide assistance even though the driver was carrying insurance. Accordingly, our policy is no loaning of vehicles from the lot AT ALL. Even our employees can't use a car overnite. A car can only be driven off the lot for a sales demonstration or to transport it somewhere for a service (upholstery repair, etc), not for a car in service, period.

  • Strizzo

    Feb. 9, 2009 11:08 p.m. Strizzo Dork

    yeah, they can't "loan" him a car, but they sure can let him take one for an extended test drive. there are ways the esquires can loan you a car and cover their ass at the same time with a bailment. it just depends on how much they want to help you out.

  • DrBoost

    Feb. 10, 2009 10:05 a.m. DrBoost Reader

    Strizzo wrote:

    It just depends on how much they want to help you out.

    Yeah, well I just wish someone at the dealer or Chrysler would help us out. Heck, I've been watching the hybrid minivan information very close. If they leave me hanging, they can forget about me ever buying a chrysler product again. I've owned many, many mopars over my life and I would drop them like a bad habbit if they screw me over. It's not that the engine failed, it's how you handle it that make the difference.

  • HappyAndy

    Feb. 10, 2009 9:31 p.m. HappyAndy Reader

    DrBoost wrote:

    Strizzo wrote:

    It just depends on how much they want to help you out.

    Yeah, well I just wish someone at the dealer or Chrysler would help us out. Heck, I've been watching the hybrid minivan information very close. If they leave me hanging, they can forget about me ever buying a chrysler product again. I've owned many, many mopars over my life and I would drop them like a bad habbit if they screw me over. It's not that the engine failed, it's how you handle it that make the difference.

    well you should tell them exactly what you just said here. Write a letter to chrysler customer service, call or write the owner of the dealership, and maybee even write a letter to the opinion page in the local news paper, or even call the local tv news. The squeaky wheel gets the grease man!

  • Jensenman

    Feb. 11, 2009 6:58 a.m. Jensenman SuperDork

    Strizzo wrote:

    yeah, they can't "loan" him a car, but they sure can let him take one for an extended test drive. there are ways the esquires can loan you a car and cover their ass at the same time with a bailment. it just depends on how much they want to help you out.

    Dude, not trying to flame, just stating truth: just what good is it to loan someone a car, have them get in a wreck and then get hit with a huge judgement for trying to help someone out? You have to weigh the possibility of selling a car against the possibility that a jury will beat you severely about the head and shoulders. You can never predict what a jury will do.

    If Mr and Mrs Customer are on an 'extended test drive', get in a wreck and it comes out that they actually had a car in service now we are faced with falsifying documents on top of it all.

    Yes it happened in the dealer group I work with and the award was in the $25K range on top of the cost of a totaled car. So that particular perk (which we had happily provided) is now gone. Next time you see a trial lawyer, kick him/her/it where it hurts.

  • John Brown

    Feb. 11, 2009 7:01 a.m. John Brown SuperDork

    +1

    Hell the "Loaner Car" program here is so screwed that if they send me to training they would rather pay me a BIG premium to drive rather than release a loaner.

  • Feb. 11, 2009 7:32 a.m. mistanfo Dork

    MegaDork, whatever happened to the cheap lease, decided against?

  • AngryCorvair

    Feb. 11, 2009 8:44 a.m. AngryCorvair Dork

    DrBoost wrote:

    Strizzo wrote:

    It just depends on how much they want to help you out.

    Yeah, well I just wish someone at the dealer or Chrysler would help us out. Heck, I've been watching the hybrid minivan information very close. If they leave me hanging, they can forget about me ever buying a chrysler product again. I've owned many, many mopars over my life and I would drop them like a bad habbit if they screw me over. It's not that the engine failed, it's how you handle it that make the difference.

    yeah, and how many have you bought NEW?

  • DrBoost

    Feb. 11, 2009 10:20 a.m. DrBoost Reader

    AngryCorvair wrote:

    DrBoost wrote:

    Strizzo wrote:

    It just depends on how much they want to help you out.

    Yeah, well I just wish someone at the dealer or Chrysler would help us out. Heck, I've been watching the hybrid minivan information very close. If they leave me hanging, they can forget about me ever buying a chrysler product again. I've owned many, many mopars over my life and I would drop them like a bad habbit if they screw me over. It's not that the engine failed, it's how you handle it that make the difference.

    yeah, and how many have you bought NEW?

    Well, I was kinda hopin they wouldn't axe me that. But, I'll tell you this, when it comes time for my first new car, this would weigh HEAVILY in my decision. That hybrid minivan does have me looking at finances though.......

  • Strizzo

    Feb. 11, 2009 10:52 a.m. Strizzo Dork

    Jensenman wrote:

    Strizzo wrote:

    yeah, they can't "loan" him a car, but they sure can let him take one for an extended test drive. there are ways the esquires can loan you a car and cover their ass at the same time with a bailment. it just depends on how much they want to help you out.

    Dude, not trying to flame, just stating truth: just what good is it to loan someone a car, have them get in a wreck and then get hit with a huge judgement for trying to help someone out? You have to weigh the possibility of selling a car against the possibility that a jury will beat you severely about the head and shoulders. You can never predict what a jury will do.

    If Mr and Mrs Customer are on an 'extended test drive', get in a wreck and it comes out that they actually had a car in service now we are faced with falsifying documents on top of it all.

    Yes it happened in the dealer group I work with and the award was in the $25K range on top of the cost of a totaled car. So that particular perk (which we had happily provided) is now gone. Next time you see a trial lawyer, kick him/her/it where it hurts.

    sounds to me like the issue you've seen was that they wanted to help the people out more than they wanted to cover their ass. any amount of help the dealer wants to give can be protected by (oh no! dirty, nasty) lawyers and the proper amount of ass covering.

    a bailment wouldn't be falsifying documents, it is just an assignment of responsibility. it basically states that the dealer is letting them possess the car until a deal is worked out between the two, and anything that happens to the car during said time will be paid for by the bailee.

    what would it matter if they had a car in service anyways? how many people bring a car in for service and decide to buy a new one? one has nearly zero to do with the other.

  • Jensenman

    Feb. 11, 2009 12:26 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

    There is a legal difference between a sales test drive and a service loaner from the lot. AFAIK, the factory supplied loaners are viewed differently, more like a rental car than what we call a 'lot car'. Do not ask me to elaborate fully, I can't.

    SC state law says that in order to take a car on a test drive the prospective buyer MUST provide a valid drivers' license and a copy MUST be kept at the dealership until the test drive is completed. That's in response to several incidents where cars were stolen on test drives, in one case I am personally familiar with a salesman was kicked out of a car in a busy intersection and was damn near killed. On top of that, the prospective buyer must sign an agreement that he/she is driving this vehicle in order to evaluate it for prospective purchase. That agreement says NOTHING about it being a service loaner. A kid fresh out of law school could walk right through that opening and in one instance involving my dealer group already has thus leading to cutting off loaners.

    It comes down to somehow some smartass lawyer figured out that in an accident it is very possible for an entity which owns a vehicle that is someone other than the person driving it can also be held responsible. Doesn't matter that the other entity isn't there holding the steering wheel, it's just another place to squeeze a few more bucks out of at the cost of common sense.

    I will also tell you that more than one lawyer has told me that a waiver (including those waivers we all sign to go racin') will not stand up in court. It seems the loophole is that the person signing cannot sign away the possible rights of heirs, insurance companies etc. Make of THAT what you will.

  • Mental

    Feb. 11, 2009 1:57 p.m. Mental SuperDork

    ClemSparks wrote:

    My first thought is to suggest hitting CL and finding a beater.

    There's always a market for a $1,000 car, so you can unload it easily after you're done. Of course, you'll have to go through the hassle of licensing it and all that. If you buy something that needs a simple-to-do-yourself but costly-to-pay-a-mechanic-to-do type repair, you might even come out ahead in the situation.

    Search craigslist for Caravan with a price cap of $1K and write a story about the hilarity that ensues!

    Clem

    This is my advice. Heck on Craigslist, look under the Barter section. Folks give away brken cars for something you might have and then you come out pretty far ahead.

    I mean stay on Chrysler, but they are going to move slowly and hope you go away, meanwhile you need a car.

  • John Brown

    Feb. 11, 2009 2:37 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

    mistanfo wrote:

    MegaDork, whatever happened to the cheap lease, decided against?

    The wife decided I needed a beater car for two years instead.

    I am driving a 195,510 mile B5.5 Passat and I am exceptionally impressed with the car.

  • Datsun1500

    Feb. 11, 2009 5:37 p.m. Datsun1500 HalfDork

    You did not buy it new, did you at least buy it from that dealer? You know the one that you are asking to help you out?

    You even said you would do the work yourself except that it is under warranty, so you don't use them for service either, and now they are the bad guys? I don't get it.

  • Jensenman

    Feb. 11, 2009 7:40 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

    ^^ That's normal. I see it all the time.

  • MrJoshua

    Feb. 11, 2009 9:49 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

    Datsun1500 wrote:

    You did not buy it new, did you at least buy it from that dealer? You know the one that you are asking to help you out?

    You even said you would do the work yourself except that it is under warranty, so you don't use them for service either, and now they are the bad guys? I don't get it.

    Isn't that what "Warranty" means?

  • DrBoost

    Feb. 12, 2009 5:59 a.m. DrBoost Reader

    Jensenman wrote:

    ^^ That's normal. I see it all the time.

    cummon guys. Did you read my post? I'm going after Chrysler 100% The dealership has done everything I could ask of them, and then a little more. I'm in communication with the service writer and manager daily to let them know what's going on. I may do my own work but I don't have a foundry in my garage where I can cast cylinder heads and control arms. That's where the deaer come is. And yes we did buy it from there. In each of my calls to Chrysler I made sure to note very clearly that Hall Chrysler is doing everything they can and in my opinion are a great deaership.

  • Jensenman

    Feb. 12, 2009 1:20 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

    My comment wasn't directed at you. It was a general comment that yes it is quite normal for people to take their cars elsewhere for the quick easy stuff then if something big and ugly happens they bring it to us because the aftermarket shops won't mess with anything that isn't gravy and then they expect us to hand them the moon.

    I can't count the number of times someone has rolled in with a check engine light, waving around a receipt for a tune up, spark plug wires, fuel injection service etc from some aftermarket shop. The refrain is always the same: 'they tried this, the light's still on, they say it should be under warranty'. Now I am supposed to fix it for free and throw them the keys to a loaner when the aftermarket shop RAPED them.

  • DILYSI Dave

    Feb. 12, 2009 1:23 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

    Jensenman wrote:

    Now I am supposed to fix it for free and throw them the keys to a loaner when the aftermarket shop RAPED them.

    You aren't supposed to. The manufacturer is supposed to.

  • John Brown

    Feb. 12, 2009 1:44 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

    The manufacturer does not own our loaners, our owner does.

  • DrBoost

    Feb. 12, 2009 2:04 p.m. DrBoost Reader

    Jensenman wrote:

    My comment wasn't directed at you. It was a general comment that yes it is quite normal for people to take their cars elsewhere for the quick easy stuff then if something big and ugly happens they bring it to us because the aftermarket shops won't mess with anything that isn't gravy and then they expect us to hand them the moon.

    I can't count the number of times someone has rolled in with a check engine light, waving around a receipt for a tune up, spark plug wires, fuel injection service etc from some aftermarket shop. The refrain is always the same: 'they tried this, the light's still on, they say it should be under warranty'. Now I am supposed to fix it for free and throw them the keys to a loaner when the aftermarket shop RAPED them.

    Yeah, my comment was really more directed at Datsun1500. In my years as a tech in a dealership I saw that crap many times.

  • Jensenman

    Feb. 12, 2009 2:37 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

    DILYSI Dave wrote:

    Jensenman wrote:

    Now I am supposed to fix it for free and throw them the keys to a loaner when the aftermarket shop RAPED them.

    You aren't supposed to. The manufacturer is supposed to.

    [split hairs] If it's not a part of the warranty on the vehicle, no they aren't. It's like the rental endorsement on your insurance policy: if you don't pay for rental coverage, guess what: you don't get it because it's not part of your policy.[/split hairs]

    In the great majority of cases, loaners were done by the dealership as a goodwill gesture and the cost was absorbed as part of doing business. In short, the manufacturer shoved it off onto the dealers' shoulders. If you maintain a loaner fleet some mfgs will chip in towards the bottom line when the car is removed from loaner service and sold. That's been cut off from most all the midline brands.

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