dyintorace wrote:Keith wrote:You guys can go pound sand! I don't need to think about my 11 year old daughter this way!!
Hmm. Ya better, graduation is just around the corner. Geeze my kid's gonna be driving in just a few years, so ya best get used to the idea! BTW I understand there is such a thing as Taser shotgun shells. I kid I kid.
I think...
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May 25, 2011 12:12 p.m. Jay_W HalfDork
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May 25, 2011 12:28 p.m. Rob_Mopar Dork
Bobzilla wrote:
...There's just less of us than there are trumpet/trombone players. Plus we're better.
Bah! Everybody knows the Trombones rule.
I played one of these through HS:
It's Dad's horn, a '67 Conn 88H. Was his HS graduation gift to himself.
I played my uncle's student model trombone in elementary school. That one looked like it was marched over more than once before I got it. Probably was.
Haven't played in almost 20 years. Sometimes I miss it. Dad has the horn. Told him it's the only thing I want willed to me.
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May 25, 2011 12:40 p.m. Morbid Reader
Bobzilla wrote:
Oh my... when I was in college I wanted one of these so friggin bad: http://www.wwbw.com/Holton-H181-Professional-Farkas-French-Horn-460378-i1142512.wwbw
That was my 8th grade graduation gift. I I was set on the H179 until I picked up the 181.
I hope she sticks with it, it is a beautiful, fickle instrument, but once you get in a groove with it, it will do amazing thing.
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May 25, 2011 12:59 p.m. Bobzilla Dork
Morbid wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
Oh my... when I was in college I wanted one of these so friggin bad: http://www.wwbw.com/Holton-H181-Professional-Farkas-French-Horn-460378-i1142512.wwbw
That was my 8th grade graduation gift. I I was set on the H179 until I picked up the 181.
I hope she sticks with it, it is a beautiful, fickle instrument, but once you get in a groove with it, it will do amazing thing.
Nice. I used Yamaha's for most of my "career". In fact, the double I still have/play is a yamaha.
BTW, being a Horn player John Williams is my FAVORITE movie composer. Luke's theme from the original Star Wars is absolutely amazing and moving.
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May 25, 2011 1:00 p.m. foxtrapper SuperDork
dyintorace wrote: That would be great...except that, from what I know at this point, they require a double.
Ask, since you've got a good offer on a decent horn. At worse, he'll say no. More likely, he'll say ok.
We're talking middle school here, not college level stuff.
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May 25, 2011 1:16 p.m. Bobzilla Dork
foxtrapper wrote:
dyintorace wrote: That would be great...except that, from what I know at this point, they require a double.
Ask, since you've got a good offer on a decent horn. At worse, he'll say no. More likely, he'll say ok.
We're talking middle school here, not college level stuff.
^ This. I'll get it from my folks and give a good thorough once over and clean/lube if you are interested. That way you know you're not getting a piece of crap.
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May 25, 2011 1:24 p.m. Keith SuperDork
pete240z wrote:
We heard the exact same thing about french horn players and scholarships. So my son stuck with it all through high school and decided he didn't want to be in a college music plan; so the music scholarships were never there for us.
While studying music, I had to learn a bunch of other instruments. One was the oboe - and when it was discovered that I could play it in tune reasonably well, I got a lot of pressure to change my major. "It's an opportunity instrument" was the memorable line.
I'm pretty sure the double reed would have driven me to drink, though.
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May 25, 2011 1:29 p.m. Bobzilla Dork
The sound of the double reed in the hands of a novice makes me want to consider lots of things not legal.... none of it good.
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May 25, 2011 2:08 p.m. Keith SuperDork
When played perfectly by a master, an oboe sounds like a badly played soprano sax
But seriously, those double reeds are evil, evil things. You have to be a very specific type of individual to make them your life's work.
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May 25, 2011 2:12 p.m. HiTempguy Dork
Keith wrote:
You have to be a very specific type of individual to make them your life's work.
I'm sure there is a joke somewhere in there about sticking something in your mouth being your life's work
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May 25, 2011 2:15 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork
Bobzilla wrote:
foxtrapper wrote:
dyintorace wrote: That would be great...except that, from what I know at this point, they require a double.
Ask, since you've got a good offer on a decent horn. At worse, he'll say no. More likely, he'll say ok.
We're talking middle school here, not college level stuff.
^ This. I'll get it from my folks and give a good thorough once over and clean/lube if you are interested. That way you know you're not getting a piece of crap.
I'm certainly willing to ask. What color is it?
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May 25, 2011 2:22 p.m. Bobzilla Dork
iT'S a brass single Yamaha... let me see if I can find a pic of them.
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May 25, 2011 2:35 p.m. Bobzilla Dork
Looks just like this, only noy as new! http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/winds/frenchhorns/f-single/yhr-...
EDIT: Here it is... YHR-313: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.trocmusic.com/images/annonces/uploa...
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May 25, 2011 2:50 p.m. Morbid Reader
I would highly suggest upgrading the mouthpiece as soon as she gets a handle on the basics. Student mouthpieces are uncomfortable and hard to get a decent range out of.
This is the one my instructor gave me when I was ready to upgrade: http://www.wwbw.com/Holton-Farkas-Gold-Plated-French-Horn-Mouthpieces-468306-i1417... I believe mine is a medium cup, but I can't remember for sure.
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May 25, 2011 2:55 p.m. Bobzilla Dork
^ Couldn't agree more. I ended up with an extra wide Holton Farkas gold plated beast. Amazing range down low and super comfortable. I could (and did) play for days on that thing. Went through one concert in 3 bands and the orchestra in one day, 6 hours of playingtime.
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May 25, 2011 5:11 p.m. pete240z SuperDork
My son played the piano for three years - 1st, 2nd, 3rd grade. Son, sit down and play us a few songs.......sounds great!
My son played the violin for one year - 4th grade. Son, stand up and play us a few songs.......sounds great!
My son played the french horn ten years - 5th grade through College sophmore. Son, listening to you play songs on the french horn is boring. I can't even hear you in the orchestra. Now that trumpet guy sounds great..........
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May 25, 2011 10:04 p.m. donalson SuperDork
I grew up in the band... I own an old F horn (it was my grandmas in HS... and being a poor family i'm sure they didn't get it new)... it was also played by my aunt at some point... sadly it's non salvageable due to red rot (brass rots if not taken care of)... I keep it as a family type thing... I spent 2 years as a music major... so
anyway... the best horn players I knew started as trumpet players... (I am/was a trumpet player and could pick one up and had a better tone and range than the best HS players in our county... but my counting sucked so I stuck to the trumpet ;-)
yes what is pictured above is a melaphone (SP?)... the 2 valve version is specific to DCI (drum core) they can't play the entire range that a 3 valve horn can... we used the 3 valve version for marching band...
anyway as has already been said... I'd rent if at all possible... most rental places will put the $$$ you paid for rental towards a new horn if you choose to buy one... I know my mom rented my 1st horn... when it slipped out of my hand and fell and the valve stuck I sent it back to the store and they got it working again (didn't fix the cosmetic stuff just made it operable)... a year later we turned it in and I got a new student horn with $$$ credit for what was spent on the rental... I still have that horn to this day (20 years later) it still plays well (for a student horn) it's a horn i'll never get rid of... my pro horns have come and gone (currently I've got a strad 37 the boring standard "pro" model) and yes there is a HUGE difference between pro and student... don't be fooled with intermediate "step up" horns though... they are basically student horns with some extra do-dads and a better finish in my experience... they play no better than the student horn... but give my student horn to a genuine pro and he'll make it sing like I could only ever dream
a GOOD student horns are IMHO where to start... they are built stronger (thicker gauge material) not good for sound but good when you are handing something to a kid... the bore also tends to be different to help with smaller lungs (I also think young players should start on the cornet and not a trumpet but that doesn't matter for your situation) pro horns are more temperamental and fragile as they are expected to be treated with care
i'd rent the kid a single horn and tell the director to stuff it unless he plans on plans on paying for it (all school bands i've been in have provided "high end" horns if they where needed...) in a year if they still are interested and plan on staying then consider MAYBE buying... if you ever upgrade to a pro/semi pro type level goto one of the BIG stores (woodwindbrasswind is AWESOME) bring your own personal mouthpeice and play as many horns as you can... don't choose because the horn looks better... LISTEN also have someone else in there (in this case you)... my wife was amazed when we went to WWBW I played $4000 horns on down the horn that kept coming back to was an old used $500 cortouis (SP?) I didnt buy then but eventually did find one... to this day I regret selling that horn...
as for MP... a year or so down the road is when to upgrade... the student MP is good for typical small lips of a 6th grade or so kid.... it's why they are included with student horns... there is no reason to "upgrade" untill the student has a good grasp of playing... as a trumpet player i've seen way to many people lean on the MP instead of building their chops... I used my student MP for a little longer than I should have but that was in contrast to the other trumpet players who had quiver... I found my MP after about spending a good bit of time with 4 or 5 over a few months... I've tried others including ones that supposedly have miraculous powers... I've always gone back to old faithful... and eventually stopped trying... but like choosing a good horn... you have to be at a certain level to notice the changes and differences... I'd talk to the private lessons teacher about that after the student is fairly proficient...
and last bit of my rambling... private lessons will quickly put your child WELL above the majority of the others especially in the beginner band era I've seen kids who just didn't try because they where doing so much better than the other students and then get overwhelmed at how under developed they are when they move to a higher level group... so if they do have lessons (and I do recommend that they do) make sure to expose them to better players... if you don't its very easy for them to think they are Gods gift to whatever instrument then give up when they find out otherwise...
best of luck :) mark
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May 25, 2011 10:14 p.m. donalson SuperDork
er I will add... if you choose used (not a bad way to go as long as you choose a good condition quality horn NOT something made in china) take it down to your local music store... have them do a tune up of sorts... a chem bath will clean out any old gunk from inside (sliva sitting in brass is bad m-kay) and adjust the valves if needed... it's something thats typically overlooked by most school aged players...it should be done annually if you play daily
it basically will make it play like new... thankfully with brass it's pretty cheap
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May 26, 2011 7:35 a.m. dyintorace SuperDork
Thanks Mark! Great advice. We're going to head to the local music shop this weekend to take a look around, and start getting educated.
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June 2, 2011 12:10 p.m. musicman2229
I'm actually a professional horn player. I've played with several major symphony orchestras over the past few years. My advice is to stop seeking horn advice on a motorsports website. There are dozens of very useful websites out there specifically designed for horn playing, and there are thousands of qualified people on those forums willing to give you sound advice. By far my favorite is hornplayer.net. At this site you can ask questions to forums of horn players, find registered teachers based on your state and city, and browse the largest list of used horns for sale on the internet.
That said, I will add my two cents to the conversation. I started out on a double horn. No I did not play trumpet before I played horn. It is a complete myth that you absolutely must play trumpet before you play horn. Yes, some students do follow that route, but it is my no means required. If your child is small and incapable of correctly gripping and holding a full double horn, a single horn might be necessary. I would highly, HIGHLY recommend not starting them on a single F horn (F, for the record, signifies the key the horn is pitched in. It is not an abbreviation for 'French'), but rather, if possible, starting them on a single B-flat horn. They are a little more difficult to find, but not necessarily more expensive. Again, the ideal solution would be to start them on a double horn.
Now for the price issue. By college or professional standards, $3000 for a horn is about as low as you can possibly go. For a beginning student, it is unnecessarily high. However, for anything resembling quality, don't dip below $1000 as a rule of thumb, if you have any intention of buying outright. Some good options to rent for a student are:
Yamaha 567 Holton 179, 188, Merker Matic (higher end) Conn 6D, 8D (these 8D's are quite big compared to the Holtons and Yamahas. If your child is small, best to avoid these.)
Horns to avoid:
Lidl (made as a student horn in Europe. Chronically made fun of worldwide) Anything that is not yellow or silver (rose brass, while good, is probably out of your price range if you think that horns are already too expensive. Horns that are pink, green, blue, etc. are cheap pieces of crap used to lure children with naive parents. Your child will not have a good experience with one of these)
Another note. Shininess DOES NOT MATTER. Especially at this level. My horn is unlacquered (not shiny), and looks like it's 70 years old and has been living in bleach for at least 20 of those years. It's a $10,000 instrument with a 4 year waiting list on a new one, but it's substantially less shiny than a $50 piece of crap horn at Walmart. This is a tough lesson to impart on young children, but hold firm if you suspect that a less aesthetically appealing horn would be a better move.
Much of what I have said here contradicts what others on this list have said. I did not mean to step on any toes. These are what worked for me when I was starting out. I did not come from money. Both of my parents are teachers. They found a way to make it work so I found great equipment, great teachers, and great musical opportunities. Good luck to you and your child.
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June 2, 2011 12:17 p.m. alex SuperDork
Helpful canoe is helpful.
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June 2, 2011 1:41 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork
Three pages. Three. Three berkeleying pages. No "Rusty Trombone" reference. Why do you hate America?
