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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Interesing Automotive Stories

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March 8, 2011 11:01 a.m. That_Renault_Guy HalfDork

Javelin wrote:

foxtrapper wrote:

Javelin wrote:

ddavidv wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Rambler invented unit-body (unibody, unitized body structure) construction.

Invented? No. Maybe the first domestic product to use it, but they certainly didn't invent it.

Every Rambler book claims invented.

Every Rambler book is wrong.

It started in the aircraft industry back in the teens, first showed up in a car in the 20's, mass production in the 30's, and the Nash 600 gets the credit of the first popular mass produced pure monocoque (unibody) car back in the 40's.

Okay... So Nash (Rambler) does the first car out of it, which is extrmely different than airframes, and that's not inventing automobile unibody construction how?

because the Chrysler Airflow, Citroen Traction Avant and a few other examples that escape me right now were first.
March 8, 2011 11:13 a.m. Javelin SuperDork

The Airflow and Traction Avant are both partial monocoque cars. They still used internal frames. The 1941 Nash was the first full monocoque, now known as unibody, car ever. It had no internal frame and was built almost exactly how modern cars are (out of individual stampings welded or bonded together).

AMC continued engineering the unibody unlike the others as well making combined stampings and 1-piece door surrounds, the first "safety cage" much like Subaru uses.
March 8, 2011 11:23 a.m. DrBoost SuperDork

I heard Al Gore invented the internet? I like the automotive trivia. Let's hear some more.
March 8, 2011 12:32 p.m. ArthurDent Reader

Lanica did a unibody in 1923 with the Lambda.

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/2007/07/01/hmn_feature19.html
March 8, 2011 12:49 p.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

Javelin wrote:

Okay... So Nash (Rambler) does the first car out of it, which is extrmely different than airframes, and that's not inventing automobile unibody construction how?

Spin it how you wish. Nash was a car company, Rambler was a model they made.

In 1941 Nash made their first unibody car, a 600. Nine years later, in 1950, they started making another model, called the Rambler.
March 8, 2011 1:04 p.m. TR8owner Reader

The original design concept of the Triumph TR7 coupe was drawn on a napkin in a pub over a few pints..
March 8, 2011 1:19 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

ArthurDent wrote:

Lanica did a unibody in 1923 with the Lambda.

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/2007/07/01/hmn_feature19.html

Again, semi monocoque. The Lancia was certainly the first one to move away from a frame, but the roof wasn't stressed, making it still behave and be assembled much like a framed car.
March 8, 2011 1:20 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

foxtrapper wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Okay... So Nash (Rambler) does the first car out of it, which is extrmely different than airframes, and that's not inventing automobile unibody construction how?

Spin it how you wish. Nash was a car company, Rambler was a model they made.

In 1941 Nash made their first unibody car, a 600. Nine years later, in 1950, they started making another model, called the Rambler.

No spin intended. To an AMC head all of Nash, Kelvinator, Hudson, Rambler, and AMC are one and the same and interchangable. No confusion was intended.
March 8, 2011 1:32 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

Back on topic, the Cadillac Catera and Pontiac GTO are siblings and share some suspension components, door stamping styles, mirrors, and other whatsits underneath.

The AMC Pacer was originally designed to be FWD and use a rotary!

The AMC Pacer's passenger door is longer than the driver's to give better entry to passengers on the curb.

The 87 Thunderbird was supposed to be a quicky headlight job that turned into 100% new sheetmetal. The TC version than won Car of the Year and sales picked up, PO'ing the MN12 design team for the 89 Bird who were already done. In fact, the MN12 was supposed to come out in 88 but the 87 did so well that Ford extended it. The MN12 crew got in trouble once their car came out anyways due to being over target on both weight and cost, which eventually led to Ford ignoring and eventually canceling the car.

That's not the only trouble the 87 TBird caused, as once Bill Elliott set his records at Daytona and especially Talladega NASCAR mandated the restrictor plate.

Things didn't go any better on the straight line as Bob Glidden flat out dominated NHRA Pro Stock. He qualified #1 at every race in 87, and continued the streak well into 88.

Various automotive and racing writers have claimed that the 87 TBird is what prompted both NASCAR and the NHRA to allow FWD bodies into their RWD architecture to increase parody. Glidden raced a Probe almost right away, so who knows?
March 8, 2011 2:42 p.m. ReverendDexter SuperDork

Javelin - parody or parity?
March 8, 2011 2:48 p.m. psychic_mechanic Dork

Duke wrote:

Actually, the T-1000 was available in the States. It was the Pontiac-badged Chevette. A friend of mine had one. Not only that, but back when we ran a self-serve carwash, we had a regular customer who had one he bought new. We first saw it when it still had the T-tags and 50 miles on it. Funny thing about it was, it had a Chevette emblem on the front and a T-1000 emblem on the back, and it was NOT an accident repair.

My dad said that while working at a dealership in the 70's he saw cars that had Chrysler emblems on one side and Plymouth on the other get delivered from the factory.
March 8, 2011 2:54 p.m. tuna55 Dork

Javelin wrote:

Things didn't go any better on the straight line as Bob Glidden flat out dominated NHRA Pro Stock. He qualified #1 at every race in 87, and continued the streak well into 88.

I think that had more to do with cylinder heads than body style, being Glidden. He was the guy (see, getting back on topic) that wrecked, rolled over a bunch of times tearing the car apart, rushed out of the car, took off his fire suit jacket and... promptly covered the now exposed engine from prying eyes and cameras.
March 8, 2011 3:21 p.m. oldsaw SuperDork

ReverendDexter wrote:

Javelin - parody or parity?

Look at what Nascar has become; either word applies.
March 8, 2011 3:30 p.m. That_Renault_Guy HalfDork

The Renault R5/LeCar has different left and right wheelbases.
March 8, 2011 3:33 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

ReverendDexter wrote:

Javelin - parody or parity?

Your choice.
March 8, 2011 3:56 p.m. Type Q HalfDork

stuart in mn wrote:

Type Q wrote:

If you want total insider stuff, my dad was an engineer at Ford in the early 50's. One of his projects was designing, developing, and testing a prototype 8-track tape player for automotive use. It may have been to first ever.

For the record, he never owned an 8 track in his life. He is very much an audiophile and thought formay was lame.

In the early 1950s? Lear introduced the 8 track in the 1960s. I used to work for the company that built the tape heads for them. Prior to that, Muntz built a 4 track player that was semi-popular for a few years.

The key word here is prototype. His team was given the task of finding new ways to put music in cars. He had been playing with wire and tape records since college. He built a working prototype including the tapes. I am pretty sure the tape loop in a cartridge box had been done before. I don't think they were widely availble at the time. It didn't go anywhere after that. I am not sure his bosses at Ford were interested in commericalizing a whole new music format. Lear was the big winner when it came commercializing the idea.

The team also created mobile record player that played 45's. The people he worked for were a lot more excited about that. It might have made into limited production.

Somewhere in the family archives are his notes from the project and pictures of the prototype.
March 9, 2011 5:15 p.m. glueguy New Reader

tuna55 wrote:

I think that had more to do with cylinder heads than body style, being Glidden. He was the guy (see, getting back on topic) that wrecked, rolled over a bunch of times tearing the car apart, rushed out of the car, took off his fire suit jacket and... promptly covered the now exposed engine from prying eyes and cameras.

Can't remember the year - early to mid 90's I was at the US Nats Indy drag race. Warren Johnson kaboomed a motor before the finals started and the story by Saturday was that he flew back to the shop in Duluth (Atlanta) to pick up another set and bought a seat for them on the airplane to keep them close by.
March 9, 2011 5:46 p.m. Will HalfDork

Javelin wrote:

The 87 Thunderbird was supposed to be a quicky headlight job that turned into 100% new sheetmetal. The TC version than won Car of the Year and sales picked up, PO'ing the MN12 design team for the 89 Bird who were already done. In fact, the MN12 was supposed to come out in 88 but the 87 did so well that Ford extended it. The MN12 crew got in trouble once their car came out anyways due to being over target on both weight and cost, which eventually led to Ford ignoring and eventually canceling the car.

But to be fair, let's mention that the 89 Supercoupe also won car of the year. And ford canceled the car not because it was too heavy, but because no one was buying it. Ford wouldn't care if a car weighed more than an F350 if it sold more than 150,000 copies a year.

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