1 2
mtn
mtn MegaDork
1/3/18 1:44 p.m.

I'm curious about this. For one of my side gigs, there is an online service to assign workers to it. 

There are about 25,000 gigs a year. Each gig has at least 2 people that need to work it, some need 3, and some need 4. There are about 100 different locations for these gigs. Each gig has a date, time, location, Party 1, Party 2, Worker 1, Worker 2, [Worker 3, Worker 4], and Assigner.

There are about 20 assigners, and probably 900 workers. The gigs are put up anywhere from 1 hour in advance to 1 month in advance. Workers sign in, request gigs, and get back a confirmation that is their last chance to say "no, guess I can't do this". Then we can see the schedule afterwards. 

We're able to search pretty specifically--we can eliminate certain locations from all searches, search within date ranges, search only for specific levels, search only for gigs from specific assigners... You get the idea.


Right now, it isn't working well. The function is so old that with a recent update of the Windows Server, it was no longer able to generate. It was "fixed", but the server/site can only handle about 50 people at a time, queries (searches for gigs) take forever, it has literally caused me to lose money. It is really becoming a problem, enough so that I'm going to go to the board meeting to voice my displeasure with it.

 

I know how much it costs us. I think that we're being royally screwed over. How much should something like this cost?

szeis4cookie
szeis4cookie Dork
1/3/18 1:52 p.m.

This sounds like what you're looking for: https://www.pcmag.com/review/351065/shiftboard

From the review there, it looks like industry standard pricing is going to be somewhere between $1 and $3 per user per month, so you're looking at $900-$2700 per month on a subscription basis.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
1/3/18 2:01 p.m.

Yikes that seems high, as 25,000/year is only 2k/month. Is it worth $1 per assignment? maybe.

But I would definitely go with something on a monthly subscription, and even better if something is aimed directly at your needs. I'd definitely look into the ones seis linked. There also maybe more generic cloud database or CRM or something that could be cobbled a bit to fit the need, depending on your price point needs.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
1/3/18 2:39 p.m.

Do organizations really pay 1K/month for a dead nuts simple database and a web page interface?

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
1/3/18 2:45 p.m.
Dr. Hess said:

Do organizations really pay 1K/month for a dead nuts simple database and a web page interface?

I don't think it's aimed at organizations that have 900 full or near full time employees, at that level they would diy or use a piece of an Enterprise program. If you had, say, a home cleaning service and needed to schedule your 15-20 folks, it could be ideal at $25-75 per month or whatever.

I think mtns group is a little different in that they have lots of available staff who work very infrequently. That said, it's not an uncommon group of people, so there may be a niche opportunity of there isn't a cloud based solution catered to them already.

(Don't know why we are not saying exactly what the industry is, but if mtn is trying to keep it quiet I'll leave it there).

mtn
mtn MegaDork
1/3/18 2:50 p.m.
Robbie said:
Dr. Hess said:

Do organizations really pay 1K/month for a dead nuts simple database and a web page interface?

I don't think it's aimed at organizations that have 900 full or near full time employees, at that level they would diy or use a piece of an Enterprise program. If you had, say, a home cleaning service and needed to schedule your 15-20 folks, it could be ideal at $25-75 per month or whatever.

I think mtns group is a little different in that they have lots of available staff who work very infrequently. That said, it's not an uncommon group of people, so there may be a niche opportunity of there isn't a cloud based solution catered to them already.

(Don't know why we are not saying exactly what the industry is, but if mtn is trying to keep it quiet I'll leave it there).

In this context I am. A lot of politics at play, I don't want them knowing who I am IRL, and I'd rather them not find out about my talking about it if they did a search. Unlikely, but I'd rather keep my head low for this one online. 

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
1/3/18 2:57 p.m.

You're looking at a TaskRabbit type program then where users can work when they want and schedule tasks when it suits them?

That ShiftBoard program seems to meet your requirements, I only glanced over the specs as a disclaimer. The good part is that it appears to limit to concurrent users not total users. So you'll only need as many seats as the maximum signed in at any given moment. If location filtering isn't built in you're probably looking at $10k to $20k to have the modification done to the program.

Otherwise you're probably looking at $100k to $150k to have something bespoke developed which is about the going rate for a good custom site and database setup.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo Dork
1/3/18 3:30 p.m.
The0retical said:

bespoke 

Did a whole bunch of people all of a sudden think this word is cool and using it is a good way to sound cool?   Your post isn't even grammatically correct.   Bespoke is past tense of bespeak, which is a verb, not an adjective.  I swear I have seen it at least 100x recently in a lot of car mags and online.   For the love of pete!

Nothing to add to the actual conversation, move along.  

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
1/3/18 3:32 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Yes you are correct. Unfortunately it's the term the software industry uses to describe custom built applications as moronic it sounds. American English at its finest.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo Dork
1/3/18 3:33 p.m.

Would sound a lot cooler to just say "custom".

Custom is cool.  Kustom is cool.  Bespoke as an adjective is stupid.

dculberson
dculberson PowerDork
1/3/18 3:35 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

First rule of nitpicking grammar: actually know or look up what you’re picking on. I understand though; bespoke has only been an adjective since about 1755. 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bespoke

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo Dork
1/3/18 3:37 p.m.

Your link is wrong, the internet is wrong

 

/flounder!

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
1/3/18 3:38 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Custom carries a negative connotation in the software industry. I wish I was joking.

Custom means you've had the source code of an existing application modified and now you, the customer, are locked to it forever and always unless you want to pay cubic money to move you to the new version and recode the modifications which are necessary to run your business. Provided of course that the add-on isn't a one off.

I have a solution for this issue due to how my company does business and has it's code base setup but a number of big players have poisoned the well for so long so most prospects don't understand the value of what we do.

Anyway we're off the rails.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
1/3/18 3:43 p.m.

In reply to The0retical :

 

Every ERP system I've ever seen, then, was "bespoke."  I mean "custom."  Locking the company into that ERP until the next board of directors thinks that changing to something else will make them more likely to get bought up, so they start again with a different ERP.  That's how everyone winds up with a full-on custom SAP installation.  That and it's advertised on the Golf channel.

 

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
1/3/18 4:00 p.m.

In reply to Dr. Hess :

It's exactly how every giant company ends up with SAP, that and giant hootus bragging rights. Remember the whole "No one ever got fired for buying IBM" thing? SAP is like that. That said, every ERP system contains some level of customization. It's impossible to not to (we do it all the time) because every business requires some different metrics, item categories, GL distributions, QC screens, Work Order line notes, extra fields on certain reports etc etc etc.

The pitfall of most ERP systems is that they'll sell you a core then add in "verticals" to support requested functions which are "tailored" to your specific industry or needs (Let me get this out of the way since this is my largest day to day irritant, manufacturing IS NOT A VERTICAL.) This approach makes it very easy to get in over your head with spending and is the second highest reason why implementations fail, the first being that a proper buy-in isn't secured inside the corporate culture. I can cite a bunch of papers which present this finding as well as reference PMI who spends a lot of time on ERP in case studies. Again this type of modification strategy locks the client to a particular version bugs and all, which you're often contractually obligated to pay a maintenance agreement on but can't upgrade. It's also the reason why most companies cycle out their package every 5 to 10 years. If you're cutting your custom modifications loose anyway why not see if another ERP package does something better?

If the modifications were hooked to functions within of the source code, essentially floating the modifications on top of the source, you could swap the source out from version to version and keep the changes required to keep the mods running to a minimum. This is how the ERP package I represent is structured. It's also why I have customers that have used our product for 25 years and have always run the current version without being 250+ million dollar companies. A good number of them are 10% of that size.

On the other hand we don't have a market cap of several billion dollars like SAP so obviously what's best for the user isn't best for the corporate bottom line. Hell, the company I used to work for a year ago implemented SAP and we didn't even have screen on screen functionality (ever see two aircraft mechanics nearly fight it out when one exits out of the others work order on a shared terminal? I have.) The company I work for currently has had that functionality since the mid 1990s.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/3/18 4:47 p.m.
The0retical said:

Otherwise you're probably looking at $100k to $150k to have something bespoke developed which is about the going rate for a good custom site and database setup.

For $40k I would quit my job and start work on this ASAP. I've built and maintained things almost this complicated single-handedly before. I'm thinking PHP with a (My)SQL backend and shell/batch scripts to trigger the scheduled tasks via authenticated HTTPS requests, that'll keep it platform-independent. Hosting costs under $300/yr at this scale.

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
1/3/18 4:56 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

It's kind of a guesstimate honestly but it's a fairly common price for a fully custom (bespoke wink ) web shopping cart linked to an ERP system on the backend.

Depending on the developer, you're looking commonly at $150 to $200 an hour (US rates for most my dealer network) for development time to build a web based front end with an SQL database to host the jobs, and an OTS ERP solution on the backend. The ERP system is there because you'll need some way to keep track of all the invoicing of customers, contractor payouts, and a way to generate 1099s with full traceability. You'll have to have the tax constraint in mind if you decide to go custom as no one wants to deal with an IRS inquisition.

Edit: Gameboy, have you ever built a web shopping cart? I know you do development work on the side and I often have smaller customers who want that sort of thing but can't (or won't) lay out the funds for one of the better known solutions we partner with. I don't mind referring work as I have a bunch of Caribbean customers, you all are really insular sometimes, if you have some work I can reference.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/3/18 5:08 p.m.

I have done a simple shopping cart before. For small businesses though, it's best to hand the payment handling off to an outside company (Paypal is a popular option) to avoid the difficulty of keeping your site PCI-DSS compliant. I don't only do web development on the side, it's a big part of my day job, which unfortunatley eats up the lion's share of my time.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
1/3/18 5:18 p.m.
Dr. Hess said:

Do organizations really pay 1K/month for a dead nuts simple database and a web page interface?

They pay a lot lot more then that. 

 

Something custom like this figure at least 100K maybe more depending on mission creep and scope. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy UltimaDork
1/3/18 5:52 p.m.

Google Canadian government phoenix pay.

 

I am firmly convinced there are far more useless programmers than auto mechanics.

759NRNG
759NRNG Dork
1/3/18 6:03 p.m.

Wow an IT smackdown......where's my big orange and a moonpie......do y'all have 'round' hotties like WWF?

The0retical
The0retical SuperDork
1/3/18 8:06 p.m.
wearymicrobe said:
Dr. Hess said:

Do organizations really pay 1K/month for a dead nuts simple database and a web page interface?

They pay a lot lot more then that. 

 

Something custom like this figure at least 100K maybe more depending on mission creep and scope. 

A few months ago I sold a package to a company that told me their software maintenance for the previous ERP package was $90k per year. 

That's not the highest I've ever seen either.

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 Dork
1/4/18 8:16 a.m.

Following. I'm in IT, and knowing what the company I work for went through with switching ERP systems, they can be a nightmare. 

 

Now, mtn, are you looking for a totally new solution, or a repair to yours, or just trying to figure out if you are overpaying for the current system, or something else.?

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/4/18 8:23 a.m.
The0retical said:

I don't mind referring work as I have a bunch of Caribbean customers, you all are really insular sometimes, if you have some work I can reference.

Sent you a PM.

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
1/4/18 9:28 a.m.

I DONT think mtn is asking for an enterprise ERP for a 900 employee company. He's asking for a small calendar-based database and web-based I/O app. six figures is crazy talk.

mtn, totally a hip shot as I am not familiar with what exists catered straight at your industry, but I bet $100-200/month would be plenty to get you a really nice setup.

1 2
Our Preferred Partners
oxJisDomY0Xy8onEfLbBpElWYfbQZaRX