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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » James May's 1275cc Challenge

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May 20, 2009 9:06 p.m. Luke Dork

With the recent Clarkson threads in off-topic, I got to reading articles on the TG website, including some great ones by James May.

Such as this, where he proposes the rules for a new, budget, racing series - the 1275cc challenge: http://www.topgear.com/uk/james-may/james-may-motorsport-2007-10-01

The car must have been powered, when in production, by the 1275cc variant of the venerable A-Series engine. It must retain this engine, and it must be road-legal, with an MoT. The two obvious contenders are the 1275 MG Midget and one of the later editions of the original Mini. Sound examples of these are available for £1,500 or so and can also be enjoyed on the road when you’re waiting, like Steve McQueen, between races.

The second part of the formula, and the only other rule, applies not to the car itself, but to the team’s toolbox. Only manually operated hand tools can be used in the preparation and maintenance of the racing car, and electricity and compressed air are banned.

So you can do what you like, but you can only do it by hand. No one can re-bore the engine to 1500cc, because that requires a machine tool, which is not allowed. Similarly, it will be impossible to trim a few thou off the cylinder head to improve the ‘squish’, unless you’re so brilliant you can do that sort of thing with a file. You can fit a turbo or bigger brake calipers, but only because you can do that with one of those all-in-one toolkits from Halfords.

Also, May's column on the Caterham R500 is hilarious...

When I was finally in and buckled up, I noticed that the steering wheel comes off to make getting in easier. I wish I hadn't noticed this, because I'm always overcome with a strange urge to take it off while I'm driving along, to see if I can get it back on before I crash.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/james-may/james-may-caterham-R500-2009-04-20
May 20, 2009 9:25 p.m. BobOfTheFuture Reader

Im in!
May 20, 2009 10:17 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork

What would be the Colonial equivalent of this? I would suggest the Toyota 4A-GE. That would allow for Corolla GT-Ss (both RWD and FWD), 1st gen N/A MR2s, and the Corolla FX16.
May 20, 2009 10:24 p.m. TJ Reader

ReverendDexter wrote:

What would be the Colonial equivalent of this?

Why change it? There are a lot of spridgets just sitting around rusting away.
May 20, 2009 10:32 p.m. Luke Dork

ReverendDexter wrote:

What would be the Colonial equivalent of this? I would suggest the Toyota 4A-GE. That would allow for Corolla GT-Ss (both RWD and FWD), 1st gen N/A MR2s, and the Corolla FX16.

I was thinking about that too. The 4AGE could work very well. But, I think an even simpler, carburetted engine would still be best.

The rules allow for forced induction to be easily adapted, but not for any electricity to be used (i.e - computer tuning.) I think I'd make an exception here, or at least implement a small budget for tuning.
May 20, 2009 10:48 p.m. fiat22turbo SuperDork

1600cc Challenge?

That would allow all sorts of interesting products without getting too "hairy" Honda's, Mitsu's, Suzuki's, Toyota's, etc

If you search around you might find a way to make a hand operated milling machine. Much like some of the folks who are into the old, hand-operated wood working tools.

Of course welding will be tough unless they allow you at least an Oxy-set.
May 21, 2009 7:00 a.m. TJ Reader

fiat22turbo wrote:

1600cc Challenge?

Dare I say it? NA Miata challenge.
May 21, 2009 8:06 a.m. John Brown MegaDork

Too easy.

MAXIMUM DISPLACEMENT 1500cc!
May 21, 2009 8:12 a.m. JFX001 Dork

John Brown wrote:

Too easy.

MAXIMUM DISPLACEMENT 1500cc!

Yeah, I was gonna say 1300cc, but this works.
May 21, 2009 8:30 a.m. mattmacklind PowerDork

1275 is too restrictive really, there needs to be a more diverse field. Bump it to 1500 and you can throw in all Midgets, Spitfires, MGA's, and other cars I can't think of right now.
May 21, 2009 8:32 a.m. neon4891 UltraDork

Did any one else have May's voice going thrue their head when reading this?
May 21, 2009 8:59 a.m. mistanfo Dork

Luke wrote: When I was finally in and buckled up, I noticed that the steering wheel comes off to make getting in easier. I wish I hadn't noticed this, because I'm always overcome with a strange urge to take it off while I'm driving along, to see if I can get it back on before I crash.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/james-may/james-may-caterham-R500-2009-04-20

I have been tempted to do this in more than one car. All of them my own. All of them Miatas. The fact that I prefer an indexed QR has kept me from actually doing this.

And yes, I did have May's voice in my head as I read the passage.
May 21, 2009 10:48 a.m. GregTivo Reader

neon4891 wrote:

Did any one else have May's voice going thrue their head when reading this?

Did anyone not?
May 21, 2009 10:54 a.m. John Brown MegaDork

Radical swaps included?

1.3L Aspire powered Miata anyone?
May 21, 2009 11:03 a.m. Salanis UltraDork

My only issue with his hand-tools-only rule is safety equipment. I'd want to be able to weld in a cage.
May 21, 2009 11:14 a.m. carzan New Reader

neon4891 wrote:

Did any one else have May's voice going thrue their head when reading this?

Not just his voice, but his accent, as well.
May 21, 2009 11:21 a.m. GregTivo Reader

John Brown wrote:

Radical swaps included?

1.3L Aspire powered Miata anyone?

the 1.3 in the aspire was longitudinally mounted?

I'd go for a 1.3 turbocharged Suzuki Swift.
May 21, 2009 11:38 a.m. John Brown MegaDork

The 1.3L and 1.6L share a common bolt patter, you COULD put a 1.3L in a Miata if you were willing to give up a little (lot) HP to a 1.6L DOHC, I am not certain if there is a real difference in torque output.

My theory is use a FI 1.3L Aspire engine, 1.6L Miata wiring harness, control it with a MS PnP from DIY Auto Tune and control it without the vane air meter. Running a manual gearset and lightening all components as much as possible to help the car along.
May 21, 2009 11:58 a.m. DILYSI Dave UltimaDork

I think I'd hook a bicycle up to a milling machine just to prove that you can bore an engine out without electricity.
May 21, 2009 11:59 a.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

Probably the easiest way to do this is add a class to our $200x Challenge events. And yeah, 1600cc is too easy.
May 21, 2009 12:14 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

John Brown wrote:

The 1.3L and 1.6L share a common bolt patter, you COULD put a 1.3L in a Miata if you were willing to give up a little (lot) HP to a 1.6L DOHC, I am not certain if there is a real difference in torque output.

My theory is use a FI 1.3L Aspire engine, 1.6L Miata wiring harness, control it with a MS PnP from DIY Auto Tune and control it without the vane air meter. Running a manual gearset and lightening all components as much as possible to help the car along.

For this Computer = Fail.

I think we would have to come up with some basic displacement, where that enigne is available with carburators or mechanical injection, NO EFI allowed, even if stock. Heck, points only.

1600 seems like a good displacement, since there are a good amount of 1600 cc classic cars out there- Pinto with a kent, Alfa, Honda (didn't a CRX come with a carbed 1600?), Toyota, Datsun, BMW, etc. 1300 would work too, since, again, there are Alfas, Hondas, MG/sprites, mini, etc. Basically, BS and open counterparts or CS and open counterparts (the Mini was part of SCCA CS racing).

It does make me thing- for sure the car I have now is out- too much grinding and cutting and MIG welding.

Eric
May 21, 2009 12:14 p.m. Keith UberDork

I don't see how the engine size makes it any easier. It's not like the goal is to make 100 hp. The goal is to beat the others!

May probably chose the BMC 1275 because it's available a boatload of cheap cars, it's just barely of the industrial age - and there are all sorts of cool hop-ups you could do. In the US, I think we should use a Chevy 350. I'll let those who know the engine better put constraints on which ones could be used. But this opens up the potential of a race series with vans and 180 hp Corvettes in it!
May 21, 2009 12:20 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

I have some ideas and I am writing them down.
May 21, 2009 12:45 p.m. John Brown MegaDork

Wait a minute... Spec 2.2L

Any naturally aspirated 2.2L vehicle!
May 21, 2009 12:50 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Keith wrote:

I don't see how the engine size makes it any easier. It's not like the goal is to make 100 hp. The goal is to beat the others!

May probably chose the BMC 1275 because it's available a boatload of cheap cars, it's just barely of the industrial age - and there are all sorts of cool hop-ups you could do. In the US, I think we should use a Chevy 350. I'll let those who know the engine better put constraints on which ones could be used. But this opens up the potential of a race series with vans and 180 hp Corvettes in it!

I think the idea is smaller = slower =~ safer.

Find a closed top car, small motor, and no need for a roll bar to compete in the challenge.

E-

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