Learn me the Pacifica minivan

I'm looking at getting a new kid hauler next year and had planned on limiting the search to newly used Caravan and Town/Country models. I was somewhat surprised to see the newer Pacifica falls in a similar price range. 

We want something with leather seats in particular. The rest doesn't matter so much. Most examples I've seen are less than 30k miles. I've seen loaded up Pacificas for less than $26k with very low miles. 

So is there any reason to lean one way or the other? Durability is probably more important  than ride quality. I just worry about the quality of the newly launched 2017 Pacifica vs a 2016 Grand Caravan.

My FIL loves his. Looks nice in side. That's all I got.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/CHRYSLER/PACIFICA/VAN/FWD#recalls

Scroll down and look at all the complaints on the 2017...

Personally, I would stay away from anything FCA
 

In reply to Apexcarver :

5 recalls seems par for the course these days. 

The '16 Grand Caravan is pretty ancient by comparison, as it's a much older platform.  I think you'll find a lot of the debate will center around the Stow N Go system that Dodge/Chrysler offers.  They're the only ones to have it.  I haven't driven the Pacifica, only crawled all around it at the auto show, because we love minivans.  Nice van, but for the money, I'd go used Odyssey, Sienna or Sedona.  We've had Sedonas for 11 years now, though ours is the previous generation one, and it's been utterly 100% bullet proof. 

Erich said:

In reply to Apexcarver :

5 recalls seems par for the course these days. 

Wasnt talking about the recalls, was talking about the complaints, theres a lot of allegations against the electrical systems and they seem to center around stalling. 

In reply to Apexcarver :

Ah thanks. Will check it out

The new hybrid can get a $7500 Federal tax credit and some states (like Oregon) offer an additional tax credit.

Only for newly purchased ones, but nearly $10K off on a new van on top of whatever deals the dealer is running, etc. makes it hard to ignore if you're in the market.

In reply to Stefan :

yeah  unfortunately in MI no extra incentives. They're about $8k above our budget right now new with incentives.   

The reason I'm sticking with FCA here is because in MI these vans are very thick on the ground. You just don't see low mileage Honda, Toyota, or Kia vans for sale here that often, and the price premium is hard to justify. I'd have a hard time spending $5k more to get a lower spec Honda with double the miles. 

Then buy one somewhere else and have it shipped in.  Been there, done that.  Just bought a '13 G37 last week, out of Memphis.  It was a 5.5 hour drive each way, so it was close enough to drive (did a one way rental car, $85), but if it had been further I'd have just shipped it.  It was $2500 cheaper than I could buy locally, well worth the drive.

Not sure about the new van's reliability, but the old FCA minivans hold up quite well.

I've been around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway's infield course in a loaded up Pacifica, and it was shocking how well that large beast got around.  They are quite a step-up from the Grand Caravan I have..... and I love my van.    Stow & Go FTW!  

Erich said:

In reply to Stefan :

yeah  unfortunately in MI no extra incentives. They're about $8k above our budget right now new with incentives.   

The reason I'm sticking with FCA here is because in MI these vans are very thick on the ground. You just don't see low mileage Honda, Toyota, or Kia vans for sale here that often, and the price premium is hard to justify. I'd have a hard time spending $5k more to get a lower spec Honda with double the miles. 

We just went through this ourselves.  The Pacifica is functionally a fantastic vehicle.  We were primarily looking at them (both gas and hybrid) at first.  However, the number of documented cases of stalling pushed us away.  Look at the number and types of NHTSA complaints of other 2017 vans, and then the Pacifica.  I think it was mostly accelerating while turning left...You know, like you would when crossing lanes of oncoming traffic. 

They've supposedly since found a fix...And for all I know, maybe it even worked.  We're not at all disappointed with our decision to get a Sedona though. It's not a perfect vehicle either,  but bang for the buck it's damn hard to beat. 

I see a slew of 2017 Kia Sedona LX with ~20k miles, within 100 miles of Ann Arbor, advertised for $20k-$23k on AutoTrader.  This is true almost everywhere as far as I can tell, as they are rental fleet turnovers.  Sure some will show more signs of abuse than others because of this, but when we bought ours we had multiple very clean ones to choose from.  If buying from a Kia Dealer it's not hard to negotiate in getting it CPO'd for no money over a non-CPO from a non-Kia dealer, just by playing them all against each other.  At that price they should mostly have the leather package, and if it has the mid-2017 switch to the large screen infotainment system with the leather package, it also has Android Auto/Apple CarPlay integration so you'll even have nav capabilities without going to a higher trim model.

If I take a moment to put my engineering hat on I would say this regarding the stalling:

IF the stalling is occuring in very similar conditions (similar to stalling issues on the last gen Odyssey) 

And if that means it is the same failure mode.

Then one proper fix will cure almost all of the complaints and issues. 

This is different from Kia's issues with exterior light failures. They don't seem to have a common cause or fix and the problem spans across most of the models. Headlights/parking lights/tail lights just go out. At least brake lights work. 

Get a Pacifica. Sounds like you have it figured out. The only reason to go Odyssey or Kia is if you really really like some feature they have. 

In reply to Driven5 :What kind of MPGs are you seeing? I rented a Sedona and loved the way it drove but it struggled to get 20. The Caravan we rented felt ancient in comparison BUT returned 25 all day long even through the mountains. 

Erich said:

In reply to Driven5 :What kind of MPGs are you seeing? I rented a Sedona and loved the way it drove but it struggled to get 20. The Caravan we rented felt ancient in comparison BUT returned 25 all day long even through the mountains. 

Unfortunately I can't fully speak to that yet.  My wife's commute is tragically bad on mpg's, regardless of vehicle, and we haven't taken it on a proper trip yet.  We'll finally be able to strech it's legs Memorial Day weekend. In general around town (very hilly terrain, stop-and-go traffic) use, we're definitely down a couple mpg from our previous AWD V6 RAV4.  However, I seem to recall verifying that the rental which convinced us to look at Sedona's inf the first place pulled something like 23-25 on a limited highway stint.  Honestly though, I wouldn't doubt if it's also down a couple mpg from the Pacifica as well.

Since used Pacifica's are available now, IF the fix worked on the vans with documented stalling, then it would definitely be a tough call.  Although the equivalent Pacifica is still probably at least a few grand more expensive too.  The other point of concern I had with the Pacifica is the ZF 9-speed transmission.  It seems tuned decently in the Pacifica, but it has also been problematic in every application it has been installed in, from Chrysler to Honda.  So I'm not sure I would get one without a CPO/extended warranty either.

As a two-time Grand Caravan owner, Currie Odyssey owner here.   

The Oddy is NOT worth the higher price. Ours has glitches, lots of them. As many as our last GC That had 100,000 more miles in it. 

I'm in Michigan, and ours freezes shut any time there is heavy frost on the van. Lack of SnG is huge. 

I hate the ergonomics tht the Honda has, the fuel economy isn't much better than the ild push-rod mill the Chrysler has, he lack of torque is stunning, the load area sucks, 

oh I could go on. 

 

 

Personally, I would stay away from anything FCA
 

 

This.

Been looking at minivans lately. Seems that the real advantages of the Pacifica over the T&C are that it's a newer platform, and it looks much better (inside and out). But, the only thing that it has over a significantly cheaper used van is the plug in hybrid. With out driving, we'd go to the gas station maybe once a month with it. That's a pretty big draw. For the gas one, I'm not sure I can make the numbers work. 

In reply to mtn :

A nicely equipped 2017 Pacifica with low miles near me is about $23-24k. A nicely equipped 2015/16 Town and Country with less than 30k miles near me is about $20-24k, so it's not a big difference in price.

After reading those NHTSA complaints it seems to me the Pacifica has a big problem with stalling out in traffic. They did a recall earlier this year to address it, but we'll see how well it's fixed.

I bet next year I can get a low-miles leather-equipped 2017 Pacifica for near $20k. It's going to be a tough call. 

I'm not ruling out the Toyota, Honda, or Kia either. I think we will end up buying whatever is the nicest low-miles minivan in our budget. 

I'm still trying to convince my wife we need a loaded Quigley van instead.