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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Legal advice?

Jan. 19, 2009 1:24 p.m. petegossett Dork

Yeah, yeah....I know free legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

I do have a dumb question & was hoping one of our fellow board members may have a bit more insight for me.

Here's the story: Our company has historically provided cell phones for us, for work and limited personal use. We have never had any issues in the past. However, last fall they changed providers and plans in an attempt to save money, and it massively backfired, costing us more each month.

They announced on Friday a change to the plan - we will now be required to provide our own phones, but we will receive $65/mo. to cover business use...which I think is a good plan. Unfortunately, they are requiring us to take over the contract on our existing phones/network, and have them switched into our names as a personal account - which I'm not happy about, as I can get a better phone/network for probably less money.

So, my question: Can they legally require us to take over their existing contract in our own name? Or if we refuse & get our own phone, can they say "Sorry, no $65 for you."?
Jan. 19, 2009 1:39 p.m. CrackMonkey Reader

My guess is they can refuse the $65 but can't make you take over the contract.
Jan. 19, 2009 1:50 p.m. P71 HalfDork

They can't make anybody take over their contract. Tell them to take a hike. If they refuse you the $65 then tell them you don't have a personal cell phone so if they want you to make work calls they better give one to you.
Jan. 19, 2009 2:01 p.m. Josh Reader

Well, I am assuming the reason they are doing this is that they can't get out of the existing contract without an early termination fee, and in that case I wouldn't expect them to let people provide their own phones/contracts without paying that ETF. I'd ask if it's possible to wait until the end of the contract and replace the phone/network with one of your choosing, and if all this isn't costing you real dollars out of your pocket, I'm not sure why it's a big deal.
Jan. 19, 2009 2:47 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

I am not certain the legal implications, but I can see many scenarios where someone would want to choose their own carrier. (perhaps you want an i-Phone, or everyone in your family is on Verizon) I can't see them forcing you to take their carrier. Tell them you already have a personal phone with another carrier and taking theirs would be too much added cost for you. You will simply start using that phone for business calls and get reimbursed the $65. If they are not willing to do that, no big deal, but you are no longer available by cell for business reasons. If a company wants you to have a cell phone, they have to pay for it. They can always keep you on their plan and simply ban all personal use. That means carrying two phones, and having your bill scrutinized every month. Your not on i-Porn are you? tsk tsk
Jan. 19, 2009 4:12 p.m. jrw1621 Reader

I would advise that you do not take over their liability.

How long have they been into their typical 2 year contract?

Would they want you to take over the remaining time (maybe 1 year or a half) or will the carrier be signing you up to another two years on a personal commitment? That is not really taking over the contract liability but rather getting themselves out of liability and putting new liability on you.

What if you are no longer employed - still carry the liability.

What if you find a new job that does provide - you still carry the liability.

What are the options presented if you sign no contract? Verizon (and others) has a no contract version if you provide your own handset (or have a used one.)

Boost Mobile rolls out a $50 Unlimited offer next week that gives all of the Nextel Network and all features (if Nextel's Network fits your needs.) http://boostmobilecommunity.com/ReadMore.aspx?blogid=486&cid=HP_Promo_Tray_Mon...

My last advise is if you do take over the liability, ask for paperwork from the carrier and insist on being given written terms and conditions to sign. This will create work and maybe some difficulty for the cell phone salesman. Just tell them you want full disclosure. Why would they not want you to have that?
Jan. 19, 2009 5:29 p.m. petegossett Dork

jrw - Those are the same type thoughts I'm having. Yes, the $65 should(in theory, I still need details)pay for the monthly business use of the phone. I'm more concerned with the "what-ifs".

We just got this contract last fall, so even if it's a 1-year contract, we have 9mos. left. Maybe even 21mos.

To me this is similar to having a company-car & having the program discontinued. I could see them offering the employees to to take over/buy the car, or requiring they provide their own(under whatever terms they choose), but I don't see how they can force you into assuming their contract.
Jan. 19, 2009 6:51 p.m. Datsun1500 HalfDork

They can't force you to take over the contract. The only way to keep the same number is to have you take it over or pay the termination fee. If you don't care about the number , tell them no thanks, if that is the number everyone calls you on, you are kind of stuck.

They are not required to give you a cell phone even if they need you to have one, it becomes part of the job requirements. No phone, no job.

The following people would be out of a job:

Tell them to take a hike. If they refuse you the $65 then tell them you don't have a personal cell phone so if they want you to make work calls they better give one to you.
And

If they are not willing to do that, no big deal, but you are no longer available by cell for business reasons. If a company wants you to have a cell phone, they have to pay for it.
Jan. 19, 2009 7:03 p.m. petegossett Dork

No concerns about keeping the same number, as they aren't published outside our company. I just think I can get a better deal through my wife's work - maybe even w/o the $65 comp.
Jan. 19, 2009 8:04 p.m. wayslow New Reader

Our company tried the same thing a couple of years ago. The office manager ended up with a stack of 68 phones on his desk. The policy was quickly reversed.
Jan. 20, 2009 2:37 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

I'm not liking the idea of taking over someone else's contract even if they drop $65 a month on you to pay the bill. Looks to me like you are taking on company liability. Part of that: if they decide to backtrack and go with another company and YOU have already renewed the contract with the current carrier, who pays the ET fee? Or if you get laid off, who pays then? I don't see any good coming from that whole thing.
Jan. 20, 2009 2:50 p.m. pete240z HalfDork

my company is doing the same thing with company supplied outside salesman cars.

after my lease is up; i will be provided with a monthly car allowance. I will make it work, but you know how nice those company cars are.
Jan. 21, 2009 10:59 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

Datsun1500 wrote:

The only way to keep the same number is to have you take it over or pay the termination fee. If you don't care about the number , tell them no thanks, if that is the number everyone calls you on, you are kind of stuck.

I'm not sure that is correct.

Cell phone numbers can be transferred at will. To any other carrier, any type of service. Even to or from a land line.

I've done it.
Jan. 21, 2009 11:39 a.m. CrackMonkey Reader

SVreX wrote:

Cell phone numbers can be transferred at will. To any other carrier, any type of service. Even to or from a land line.

Yes, but currently, the OP's number is "owned" by his employer (via the employer's contract). The OP can't take the number with him without the company's permission (I think).
Jan. 21, 2009 11:45 a.m. SoloSonett Reader

wayslow wrote:

Our company tried the same thing a couple of years ago. The office manager ended up with a stack of 68 phones on his desk. The policy was quickly reversed.

My sugestion exactly! My boss would know which one was mine.. because it would smell like..
Jan. 21, 2009 11:50 a.m. Strizzo Dork

well, if he ports (number portability act or some damn thing) his work number to another service, most cell companies take a port request from another carrier as a request to terminate service and then will charge any applicable termination fee to that account. i believe it is assumed that the request comes from an authorized person, or they make sure then name on the two accounts is the same. i think.
Jan. 21, 2009 4:05 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

CrackMonkey wrote:

SVreX wrote:

Cell phone numbers can be transferred at will. To any other carrier, any type of service. Even to or from a land line.

Yes, but currently, the OP's number is "owned" by his employer (via the employer's contract). The OP can't take the number with him without the company's permission (I think).

I agree, I think you are correct. I'm not even sure they can give "permission".

I was assuming the same name on 2 accounts.
Jan. 21, 2009 5:04 p.m. jrw1621 Reader
Porting of a cell phone number:
1. The user must be able to prove ownership of the account through such things as account number and/or account password. This is the type of thing that keeps mad boyfiends from changing the number of ex-girlfriends (where the girl pays her own bill)
2. The account must be in "good standing" with the first carrier. This includes past ballances and/or early term fees being paid in full before switch. This keeps people from racking up an unpaid bill. Many/most people will pay the bill to keep the number. Others want a different number because all the collectors call them on the old number.
Jan. 21, 2009 6:29 p.m. petegossett Dork

Thanks for all the replies! In the end, the company will let us choose another carrier if we wish - of course, we'll have to buy a phone then, rather than inherit the one we currently use - or we can get service anywhere else, we still get the $65 reimbursement.

Now I just need to decide if I really want to spend the $199 for an iPhone, or just keep this Q9...
Jan. 21, 2009 6:53 p.m. ignorant SuperDork

same deal with my travel credit card at work. You want a company card. It's in your name. It is your responsibility to make sure you submit the proper paperwork so they don't send the collection company after your ass..

One of the guys at work got shoddy about turning in receipts. His credit got dinged for a $45 charge.

My advice. Take the $65 a month. Get a $30/month plan. Make sure you get the same carrier that all your co-workers do so you don't get charged intra phone minutes.. and pocket the rest.

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