Hi all, just wondering if someone could enlighten me, we're looking at a 65ish year old house. The light switches are a touch type, meaning you just brush your finger against them to turn on/off. I was told by the seller that they are 12 volt. When you touch the light switches they make an elictrical shorting noise which disturbs me. But was assured thats normal. If we buy the house I will probably rewire everything anyway, but I would like to know more about whats there. I tried to search the net for info but only came up with people wanting/trying to wire a house for new 12v LED lights. Any insight would be greatly appreaciated. Thanks Paul
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:15 p.m. paulmpetrun Reader
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:20 p.m. cwh SuperDork
I've done a lot of work in older houses, but have never seen 12 power. Those touch switches are not 65 yo. Look at the outlets, if they look like standard ones, 110vac. Bring a small VOM with you and when he is not looking, check voltage at the outlet. To retrofit a house badly rewired costs big bucks, so a good bargaining chip.
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:21 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
Are you living in a van down by the river?
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:30 p.m. TRoglodyte HalfDork
I call BS. Previous owner is not pulling your leg, He is trying to gnaw it to a bloody stump.
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:32 p.m. nocones HalfDork
Is it possible that they work like the inductive coils for Low voltage lighting and control a relay running at true 110/220V standard home power?
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:33 p.m. Grtechguy SuperDork
No....I've seen Low Voltage lighting installed before. Separated small circuits for overhead accent lights usually.
the house will obviously still have 120v standard.
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:35 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork
I bet that the fancy touch switch control runs on 12 Volts, and it switches conventional 120V circuits. I bet the PO is a DPO and doesn't really understand what is 12V.
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:37 p.m. Hocrest HalfDork
TRoglodyte wrote:
I call BS. Previous owner is not pulling your leg, He is trying to gnaw it to a bloody stump.
I don't think the PO is pulling your leg...
I think they're an idiot and they really believe they have 12v throughout the house.
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:49 p.m. TRoglodyte HalfDork
Does the seller have a receipt showing installation of this lighting system by a licensed electrician?
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:50 p.m. Kendall_Jones Reader
220-221, whatever it takes....
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Dec. 12, 2011 12:52 p.m. jhaas Reader
Dr. Hess wrote:
I bet that the fancy touch switch control runs on 12 Volts, and it switches conventional 120V circuits. I bet the PO is a DPO and doesn't really understand what is 12V.
this is correct. the touch switces run low voltage (12v in this case) the house is wired 110v just like any other house.
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Dec. 12, 2011 1:03 p.m. jimbbski Reader
jhaas wrote:
Dr. Hess wrote:
I bet that the fancy touch switch control runs on 12 Volts, and it switches conventional 120V circuits. I bet the PO is a DPO and doesn't really understand what is 12V.
this is correct. the touch switces run low voltage (12v in this case) the house is wired 110v just like any other house.
About 1-2 years ago I saw an episode of "Ask this Old House" where they talked about this type of wiring and even went to a house to make some repairs. It was the first time I ever heard of such a system.
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Dec. 12, 2011 1:09 p.m. TRoglodyte HalfDork
Never heard of it either, Sounds scary.
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Dec. 12, 2011 1:32 p.m. JThw8 SuperDork
I have/had those stupid touchpads in my house. Replace them, especially if they are making noises. One of mine started that way and eventually went bad, I replaced them all at that time, they were a novel idea but they don't seem to hold up well. And if they are dimmable (mine were) they don't work well with CFL bulbs.
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Dec. 12, 2011 1:35 p.m. spitfirebill SuperDork
I could imagine how good a 12 volt range would be. Maybe they doubled it to 24 volts.
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Dec. 12, 2011 1:39 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork
What's going on is the house has a panel full of relays hidden away somewhere, and the light switches are switching 12volts to energize those relays. In turn, the relays provide 120vac to the light bulbs.
It was sort of a fad for a while back then, and wasn't a bad idea, but the problem today is all those systems are obsolete so you can't get replacement parts.
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Dec. 12, 2011 2:07 p.m. Ian F SuperDork
The g/f's parents have one of these set-ups in the w/e house. Her father installed it. There is a big relay panel in the basement the switches control. His system was a bit more involved as each room has a panel in it with usually a bunch of switches, one of which is a "panic" switch that turns on every light in the whole house. Nice. One of the rooms has a "test" switch that operates every relay in sequence, which is kinda neat as it operates damn near every light on the whole farm. Since half the switches aren't labeled, I generally avoid using them.
Yes, replacement parts are a bitch.
The house also has redundant line-voltage switches and lights.
And to answer your question: Of course he is an engineer.
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Dec. 12, 2011 2:33 p.m. paulmpetrun Reader
stuart in mn wrote:
What's going on is the house has a panel full of relays hidden away somewhere, and the light switches are switching 12volts to energize those relays. In turn, the relays provide 120vac to the light bulbs.
It was sort of a fad for a while back then, and wasn't a bad idea, but the problem today is all those systems are obsolete so you can't get replacement parts.
Thanks for all the quick reply's, thats why I love GRM!!!
Anyway, yes the house does have a standard 110/220 volt electrical service panel in the basement. It was replaced in 1991 according to the electrical inspectors sticker. All of the regular outlets appear to be normal 110, its just all the light switches are some sort of 12v deal. A few of the switches are broken and the wires are just hanging out in the open. Those wires are tiny, like maybe 20 gauge size, so having them operate a relay seems plausible. They certainly couldn't handle much more.
Does anyone know if those switches are still available or can I just use a normal switch to replace them?
Thanks again Paul
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Dec. 12, 2011 2:36 p.m. paulmpetrun Reader
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
Are you living in a van down by the river?
No, but if I don't get this house for the SWOMBO, I just might be
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Dec. 12, 2011 4:35 p.m. TRoglodyte HalfDork
Cut your losses and start looking for a van. How far away is the river?
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Dec. 12, 2011 4:39 p.m. iceracer SuperDork
Mny,many years ago, my father installed a 12V system in my folks camp. It had a generator and many batteries. It was called a Delco System. When the power company brought 120 in he just switched over.
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Dec. 12, 2011 4:45 p.m. Hal Dork
stuart in mn wrote:
What's going on is the house has a panel full of relays hidden away somewhere,
Maybe and maybe not. My neighbor when I was growing up had that type of wiring for his lights. But there was a transformer/relay attached to each light box. And that house was built in ~1950!
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Dec. 12, 2011 4:55 p.m. Hal Dork
paulmpetrun wrote: Does anyone know if those switches are still available or can I just use a normal switch to replace them?
Can't think of any reason why a standard switch would not work as long as you have standard boxes holding the switches. My neighbor's setup did not have any boxes for the switches. The switch and wall plate were a single unit with a cover on the back that you removed to attach the wires.
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Dec. 12, 2011 5:33 p.m. SVreX SuperDork
Are they touch switches, or spring loaded rocker switches?
If they are touch switches, they are new. But they could be old if they are rockers.
I have only worked in one house that had 12V wiring. It was low voltage relay switch circuits to run 110V appliances. The switches were all rockers.
It was a pain to work with. Mostly because nobody had a clue what they were supposed to do.
But the wiring was very small gauge- low voltage only.
There IS such a thing as a 12V house.
I'd include the cost to rewire it.
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Dec. 12, 2011 6:39 p.m. Streetwiseguy Dork
My grandfathers house was 32 volts, with glass-cased batteries in the basement, charged by a wind powered generator- Windcharger was the brand. It was refitted to 110 in the early 50's when power came through the area.
