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Login to post Forums » Off-topic discussion » Man my left arm feels funny...

Sept. 16, 2008 10:08 a.m. John Brown SuperDork

<blockquote>Reuters.com said:LONDON (Reuters) - A study has for the first time linked a common chemical used in everyday products such as plastic drink containers and baby bottles to health problems, specifically heart disease and diabetes.

Until now, environmental and consumer activists who have questioned the safety of bisphenol A, or BPA, have relied on studies showing harm from exposure in laboratory animals.

But British researchers, who published their findings on Tuesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association, analyzed urine and blood samples from 1,455 U.S. adults aged 18 to 74 who were representative of the general population.

Using government health data, they found that the 25 percent of people with the highest levels of bisphenol A in their bodies were more than twice as likely to have heart disease and, or diabetes compared to the 25 percent of with the lowest levels.

"Most of these findings are in keeping with what has been found in animal models," Iain Lang, a researcher at the University of Exeter in Britain who worked on the study, told a news conference.

"This is the first ever study (of this kind) that has been in the general population," Lang said.

More here: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSLF18683220080916

Yeah, this could be bad, let me put the top back on my Mountain Dew...
Sept. 16, 2008 10:20 a.m. ClemSparks SuperDork

I'm not surprised by this as I'm one of those "environmental consumer" types. I haven't clicked the article...but does it mention which types of plastic have this? I think, generally #1 and #2 (the polyethylenes) are the least-hazzardous. Some of the others can get pretty nasty.

Clem
Sept. 16, 2008 10:39 a.m. John Brown SuperDork

Then you get the other side:

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20080815/bisphenol-a-safe-says-fda
Sept. 16, 2008 11:16 a.m. ClemSparks SuperDork

I can't get that one either (nazi firewall...no offense to nazis).

Judging by the title alone...looks like the FDA says it's safe. I've heard enough stories about the rubber stamp that is the FDA to pretty much disuade me from lending them any credence, whatsoever.

Remember, Idiocracy says that Brawndo will purchase the FCC, FDA, and EPA. They'll be able to Say and Do anything they want!('cause Brando gotalectrolytes)
Sept. 16, 2008 11:59 a.m. nickel_dime HalfDork

Damn, I'll have to stick to drinking beer in bottles.
Sept. 16, 2008 12:06 p.m. captainzib Reader

How old is this article cause a couple weeks ago I read one stating that after extensive testing, BPA has been deemed safe by the FDA, (me paraphrasing the article and possibly being completely wrong).

EDIT I am here only to serve as an example as to why one should read an entire thread before posting.
Sept. 16, 2008 12:45 p.m. confuZion3 HalfDork

here I am sitting I'm starbucks drinking from a plastic cold-beverage container - and you post this???! Grrrr!!
Sept. 16, 2008 12:48 p.m. Jensenman SuperDork

nickel_dime wrote:

Damn, I'll have to stick to drinking beer in bottles.

This seems the safest and most prudent route. I'll join you.
Sept. 16, 2008 1:14 p.m. seann Reader

So FDA report was from a month ago and concluded that the studies before were showed majority of people had BPA in there urine, didn't link them to health affects though and proposed a hypothesis that humans won't have the health problems as the test animals because it doesn't stick around in our systems as long.

Now you have a new study published in the AMA that does show a coorelation between BPA concentrations in peoples bodies and health problems. Looks like the FDA should take another look at it.

Then again it's probably just a conspiracy orchestrated by the companies that make those trendy stainless steal water bottles that are like 60 bucks.

Over heard in a local grocery coop the other day: "It's terrible, I just don't know what type of water bottle to buy anymore" Oh, the problems of yuppies
Sept. 16, 2008 1:24 p.m. GameboyRMH Dork

confuZion3 wrote: here I am sitting I'm starbucks
Sept. 16, 2008 4:01 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

Correlation does not imply causality. People with heard disease had exposure to the plastic stuff. Maybe it's related, maybe it isn't.

I strongly suspect that there is something that we consider perfectly safe that is causing us serious damage. It has been theorized that this is exactly what killed off the Roman Empire. The wealthy had running water in pipes. The pipes were made of lead. The rich's children had developmental problems from the lead. No new generation of rich. There could be something out here now doing the same thing. Maybe this plastic stuff, maybe the aluminum, maybe deoderant, maybe 60 Hz power, maybe cell phones. These things are everywhere and so difficult to isolate that it is virtually impossible to show causality. Animal models are interesting and all, but animals are different than people.

Oh, here's how they tell if something causes cancer: They have a species of mice that just keel over from cancer. Anything will cause them to die from cancer. They take a number of these mice, expose them to whatever, see how many die from cancer. They take a control set number of these mice, don't expose them to whatever, see how many die from cancer. If more in the first batch die than the second batch, whatever is considered potentially cancerous.

Personally, I'm not worred about the plastic bottles. Heineken comes in glass.
Sept. 16, 2008 4:16 p.m. Salanis Dork

Hmm... plastic causes cancer... I bet automotive carpeting does too... I need to go strip out the interior of my Miata!
Sept. 16, 2008 4:24 p.m. GlennS HalfDork

NEWSFLASH: Everything causes cancer. More at 11.
Sept. 16, 2008 4:26 p.m. Salanis Dork

In California, I'd feel weird moving into an apartment that didn't have signs saying the property contained substances known to the State of California to cause cancer.
Sept. 16, 2008 4:43 p.m. ClemSparks SuperDork

Salanis wrote:

Hmm... plastic causes cancer... I bet automotive carpeting does too... I need to go strip out the interior of my Miata!

I know you're being facetious there...but I avoid carpeting, in general. It's nasty with its outgassing when new...and it grows nasty stuff when it gets old (mold and stuff).

I haven't found a suitable alternative for cars yet...but I don't do carpet in houses.

Clem
Sept. 16, 2008 4:48 p.m. Salanis Dork

Actually, I'm rather happy that my apartment doesn't have carpeting. Most of my floors are wood, and I love it. It's easier to clean as a slovenly bachelor. It's also a lot more fun as a dancer. Having almost no furniture means that my living room is a small dance floor.
Sept. 16, 2008 5:40 p.m. aircooled Dork

Dr. Hess wrote: Correlation does not imply causality. People with heard disease had exposure to the plastic stuff. Maybe it's related, maybe it isn't.

The cigarette companies are still trying to figure out why people who are genetically predisposed to lung cancer have an irresistible urge to smoke.

Salanis wrote: In California, I'd feel weird moving into an apartment that didn't have signs saying the property contained substances known to the State of California to cause cancer.

Talk about a ridiculous worthless law (any item or building containing an item that might cause cancer must be labeled as such). Even if you took these signs seriously, it never says what exactly is the danger (all new cars have them btw). Its kind of funny when you see them on the doors of auto parts stores, probably should put a sign up that says "some of the items in this store have been shown to NOT cause cancer"
Sept. 16, 2008 6:59 p.m. ignorant SuperDork

Dr. Hess wrote: I strongly suspect that there is something that we consider perfectly safe that is causing us serious damage. It has been theorized that this is exactly what killed off the Roman Empire. The wealthy had running water in pipes. The pipes were made of lead. The rich's children had developmental problems from the lead. No new generation of rich.

I didn't hear pipes but I heard they had an affinity for white makeup made mostly from white lead.. Either way same problem.

Anyway.. We've stopped drinking out of the bad nalgenes, but still eat food from cans which most of them have a BPA containing epoxy coating on the inside.

I try my best to eat least processed as possible and be as healthy as possible, but in the end Dr. Hess and I will fall victim to the same disease.. death.
Sept. 16, 2008 7:44 p.m. seann Reader

Dr. Hess wrote:

Correlation does not imply causality. People with heard disease had exposure to the plastic stuff. Maybe it's related, maybe it isn't.

the old correlation/causation cheap shot. I didn't intend to say that it proved causality, just pointing out that the original post was refering to a study that came out after the FDA report and was presenting stuff that wasn't known before. Since there is a coorelation then it is more likely than if they didn't know there was a coorelation. So now we're in a different place than when the FDA report came out and researchers are probably saying hmmm this is worth taking a closer look at.

I commented because I think it is a misrepresentation to say the first article is one side and the FDA report is another side.
Sept. 17, 2008 6:24 a.m. John Brown SuperDork

The FDA report was also mentioned in this article as well (read beyond first page) I just think it is odd given the same set of information two different conclusions will be drawn.

IF this is a true cause of medical issues then this could greatly affect us all.
Sept. 17, 2008 6:33 a.m. ignorant SuperDork

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A

It's a pretty good article.. cause I'm too lazy.. But even in the wiki there is considerable conflicting studies..

Since wifey is preggy we'll stay away from it for a while, as much as possible.. other than that..
Sept. 17, 2008 7:52 a.m. SoloSonett Reader

ignorant wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A

It's a pretty good article.. cause I'm too lazy.. But even in the wiki there is considerable conflicting studies..

Since wifey is preggy we'll stay away from it for a while, as much as possible.. other than that..

BREATHING causes cancer! No body gets out of This alive!

Preggy wifey?

I know the cause of that also.

My plan ? To impregnate as many wifeys as I can before the cancer catches up!
Sept. 17, 2008 10:42 a.m. seann Reader

John Brown wrote:

The FDA report was also mentioned in this article as well (read beyond first page) I just think it is odd given the same set of information two different conclusions will be drawn.

IF this is a true cause of medical issues then this could greatly affect us all.

Are you saying both reports looked at the same data? Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see that in the article.

Sorry to beat this to death, I'm really not all that interested in the BPA stuff but I am very interested in science reporting and the way it's understood by people out side of the field (that includes me, I don't study this E36 M3).
Sept. 17, 2008 12:09 p.m. fornetti14 New Reader

Maybe it's what the container is holding that's causing heart disease and diabetes?? That's it - I'm going to stop drinking everything and dry up.

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