RossD
RossD Dork
11/17/10 11:03 a.m.

Alright, which one of you is selling your car: CL ad

CL Ad said:

1991 LS1 Miata!!!! I am selling a 1991 Mazda Miata. I have owned this Miata for about 5 years now and used it as a commuter up until last year. The whole car has been gone through from fresh paint about a month ago to roll bar and harnesses to exhaust and brakes. The Miata has 200,000 + on it but the only thing that really has that on it is the body. Here is a list of the items on the car.

Year- 1991 Make- Mazda Model- MX5 Miata

Engine- LS1 (2000) out of a Ws6 Transmission- T56 (6 speed) out of a 2006 GTO Rear end- 1990 7.5 Thunderbird LSD (LSD is brand new)

Exhaust- Sanderson Headers with O2 sensors - dual electric cut outs before rear wheels - Borla dual in single out muffler - All custom 2 inch exhaust

Suspension is aftermarket with adjustable springs

Tires- Front 205/40r17 brand new Rear 225/40r17 brand new -wheels are all in great shape

Interior- Poineer cd player with ipod adapter - pioneer door speakers - custom aftermarket gauges for engine - 2 cup holders - Newer racing seats with shoulder harnesses (4 pt) - Top is in good condition but the rear window zipper broke

Exterior- Fresh paint - wisdom body kit

Overall the car runs well and is super fun to drive. Daily driver or make it ready for the track. Please only serious buyers with money. Will not let just anyone test drive car! Any questions or would like to see more pictures please call 408-612-5351 $18000 or best offer If you want to see more pictures please email me

WilberM3
WilberM3 Reader
11/17/10 11:16 a.m.

aside from the wheels... Yummy!

Pumpkin Escobar
Pumpkin Escobar SuperDork
11/17/10 11:26 a.m.

18 stacks? isnt that a bit high? whats a good LS1/T56 combo go for these days? I get it that a lot of work went to making this a DD-able car, but for $18k I can get my hands on all sorts of epically fun cars that also sport a warranty.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/17/10 11:50 a.m.

Obviously, it's not worth any more than the price of a Miata ($500, spend any more and you're an idiot) and an LS1/T56 (it was about $4500 when I got mine, which means the internet will tell you that if you spend more than $2000 you're an idiot). A complete, driving car that is (hopefully) sorted isn't worth any more. Obviously

It typically costs about $12,000 to build one of these, depending on how good you are at junkyarding. But consider that the low end.

What can you get for $18k that handles like a Miata, accelerates like an early Z06 that's lost 600 lbs and has a warranty?

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
11/17/10 12:03 p.m.

So Keith you are agreeing that $18k is too much?

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/17/10 12:46 p.m.

Did you get that from my post? I was clarifying how much it costs to build one of these, not including time. The cost of an LS1/T56 is only a small part of it.

Honestly, if you were starting from scratch, I think you'd have trouble duplicating this car for the asking price. And that's assuming you're working for free and have the ability and tools to build it.

What's market value? Hard to say, there simply aren't that many of these trading hands these days. I'd want to evaluate the quality of the work.

Ian F
Ian F Dork
11/17/10 1:20 p.m.
Keith wrote: the price of a Miata ($500, spend any more and you're an idiot)

I wish I could find one of these $500 Miatas...

RossD
RossD Dork
11/17/10 1:44 p.m.

In reply to Ian F:

You can skip looking in Wisconsin. They're not here.

Why do you think I found a miata on San Fran's craigslist?

Pumpkin Escobar
Pumpkin Escobar SuperDork
11/17/10 2:00 p.m.
Keith wrote: Obviously, it's not worth any more than the price of a Miata ($500, spend any more and you're an idiot) and an LS1/T56 (it was about $4500 when I got mine, which means the internet will tell you that if you spend more than $2000 you're an idiot). A complete, driving car that is (hopefully) sorted isn't worth any more. Obviously It typically costs about $12,000 to build one of these, depending on how good you are at junkyarding. But consider that the low end. What can you get for $18k that handles like a Miata, accelerates like an early Z06 that's lost 600 lbs and has a warranty?

A simple "NO" wouldve been sufficient. I suppose $18k AND warranty dont belong in the same sentence. But I can find CPO Porsche S models in my locality for right around that. Not that I want a P car, but its just a barometer.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/17/10 2:20 p.m.

Sorry, that did come across as rude. But I think it's fair to say that this car is for sale for less than the cost to recreate it. If it's well executed, it may be worth the money.

Usually people cross-shop one of these against a used Z06. This or a Boxster? That would be an interesting choice, and you could make a good argument either way.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Webmaster
11/17/10 2:34 p.m.

I think the $500 Miatas are usually non-runners. A perfect starting point for building something like this.

The body kit doesn't help it much, but it might be a good buy at $18k. Like Keith said, it depends on the quality of the workmanship.

Pumpkin Escobar
Pumpkin Escobar SuperDork
11/17/10 2:40 p.m.

ha no worries, I meant that sarcastically. I do see your point about the cost to recreate bit. I suppose it was a little naive to think that the sticker was too high.

Hey, maybe we are looking at the Miata based kit discussion a little bit wrong...Miata subframes, LS1/T56, Ford LSD...now maybe we are getting somewhere

Anyway, yeah, I actually didnt mean to look at P-cars, but several popped up in a local search, and one is an S. As much fun as swapped cars are, and the possibilities are endless, the reliability an OEM car can offer (not does...we are talking Porsche here) is really a significant factor in a purchase at that price point. Id rather be $18k into a car that I busted my own knuckles on. That way I know who to blame when Im stranded in Sandusky at 11:30pm on a Sunday. Im not sure Id pay that for someone elses project unless it was a very dear model to me (AE86/510/GNX etc).

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/17/10 2:51 p.m.

I had a Miata customer make an interesting point recently. He was looking at either going with a built turbo Miata motor or an LS conversion. Both are pretty fast cars with similar power levels at similar prices - he was shopping at just about the crossover point between the built four and the engine swap.

Anyhow, his thinking was that it would be easier to get the V8 serviced. He was planning on lots of road trippin', and reasoned that a V8 could be serviced at any Chevy dealership. Once they get over the shock, it's just another Corvette. Meanwhile, a heavily modified stock engine is usually enough to make people slam the hood and walk away. I've seen this happen with my old Miata, the current owner is having trouble finding anyone who will work on it. I think the customer might be right about this. I know it's certainly easy getting spare parts for the V8 cars because it's all on the shelf at the local GM dealership.

Greg Voth
Greg Voth HalfDork
11/17/10 3:37 p.m.

I just bought a set of wheels of of a guy who recently sold an LS1 Miata.

It was NB LS1 Miata and sold for $15k. The paint and interior were decent but could have used some work. He was asking $18k off the bat if I recall correctly.

He took the 15k and bought an LS1 94 RX-7 and it apparently much happier. He said the chassis felt more up to the power level and he was more comfortable in it. (He was a bigger guy)

Pumpkin Escobar
Pumpkin Escobar SuperDork
11/17/10 3:41 p.m.

yep,I think when you narrow it down, reliability/serviceability are going to be the sticking points. Id still be willing to bet though that a good half the shops out there would close the hood and back away slowly from a Corviata. The same could be said for a boxster s, so maybe that argument is moot.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Webmaster
11/17/10 4:00 p.m.

Maintaining an LS1 Miata wouldn't scare me a bit. It's like a Corvette, but simpler and with less electronics.

A Boxster, on the other hand... I'll leave that to professionals.

dyintorace
dyintorace SuperDork
11/17/10 4:42 p.m.
Keith wrote: Did you get that from my post? I was clarifying how much it costs to build one of these, not including time. The cost of an LS1/T56 is only a small part of it. Honestly, if you were starting from scratch, I think you'd have trouble duplicating this car for the asking price. And that's assuming you're working for free and have the ability and tools to build it. What's market value? Hard to say, there simply aren't that many of these trading hands these days. I'd want to evaluate the quality of the work.

(I'll preface this by saying this is an honest question, not in any way rhetorical)

What costs so much to create an LSx Miata? I understand the cost of the car and the cost of the engine/transmission (assuming a T56) but what else goes into it, at least at a high level? Does FM have a theoretical budget published as to what goes into the build?

I ask as the owner of now 2 different LSx FC RX-7s. Having followed those much more closely, I know they are typically built (and built well) for far less than $18k.

Keith
Keith SuperDork
11/17/10 5:22 p.m.

Here you go, every part needed to convert a Miata to a V8.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/costs.php

Well, almost. The website hasn't been updated with the necessary fuel pump or radiator, and it shows a custom exhaust built out of Sanderson parts instead of the new FM stainless system. But it'll give you a good idea of what needs to be addressed. Note that there are no suspension, braking, tire or safety upgrades listed.

Also, note that the prices are not necessarily market competitive. Not everyone will start with a 376/480 crate engine and brand new T56, nor would they necessarily have to pay that much for them. These are retail prices. But it is a full list of every nut, bolt and ziptie used when FM does a conversion, right down to the brake fluid needed to refill the system when it's reassembled.

When I said that it could cost $18k to duplicate this little blue thing, I am assuming you are starting with an empty hole in your garage. First, buy the Miata. Then paint it (if needed, this car claims a fresh paint job). Now upgrade the suspension, brakes, tires, safety and anything else needed. At that point you can start with the V8 conversion.

Duke
Duke SuperDork
4/29/11 8:01 a.m.
Ian F wrote:
Keith wrote: the price of a Miata ($500, spend any more and you're an idiot)
I wish I could find one of these $500 Miatas...

I gather that was Keith's point.

[edit] D'oh! Date observation fail. I guess there was a watercraft post that was deleted?

corytate
corytate Reader
4/29/11 1:32 p.m.

You could almost buy a viper for that.
I'm not saying the car isn't worth it, just saying that I don't see myself paying that money for anything that was someone else's project.
And I would rather buy a Viper.
Side note: found a 95 rt 10 viper with 19k miles, in amazing condition, completely stock except for the beautiful lambo color code paint job (it's a gun metal color, not something off the wall), for 22.5k

DoctorBlade
DoctorBlade HalfDork
4/29/11 6:07 p.m.

If you're interested in some of the things that do go into one, there's plenty of them on ls1tech.com. Some done on the cheap, others not so much.

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