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AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
4/25/19 12:04 p.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

then i just LOL'd because look at how that shiny happy person BMW driver parked!

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
4/25/19 12:12 p.m.
volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to mtn :

I liked your comments, but I also have to add my own: "berkeleying-Aye Right"

I've been working since I was 15, took out student loans to pay for college (at a not-a-state school), paid them off, and just bought my first new car last year- shortly after I turned 40.  Oh, and I bought a house right in the middle of the housing bubble in 2005.  Guess what?  I kept paying on it, didn't get foreclosed, and still own it.  

Yes, I have been fortunate that I've been consistently employed.  But I've also done side jobs to make extra cash, like you have, and my personal savings rate has always been at least 10% of my gross income.  

FLOUDER, but not really- politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle are simply pandering to whoever their perceived constituency is, more and more, by simply tossing (or, promising to toss) "free" money at them.  

berkeley 'em all.  I'm off to work.  

I'll make the flounder worse.

I'm 51 now, and when I was in school, I didn't have to take a single loan out.  Not one.  Not because we were rich (we were not) but because school was CHEAP.  Even when the tuition went up for my Sr year, it was not even the cost of a cup of coffee a day up.  

That was in the era before massive state tax cuts to education.  

Then, when I went to grad school, it was 100% paid for by the school and me being a TA.  Out of state tuition was MUCH higher than my original school, but it was a fraction of what it is now.  Before Michigan cut taxes and cut education spending....

Thanks to that, I got my first real brand new car when I was 32.  And have had no issue saving for an early retirement.  

Really, the much lower cost tuition people have a point, given that THEIR parents benefited by it.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
4/25/19 12:29 p.m.
alfadriver said:
volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to mtn :

I liked your comments, but I also have to add my own: "berkeleying-Aye Right"

I've been working since I was 15, took out student loans to pay for college (at a not-a-state school), paid them off, and just bought my first new car last year- shortly after I turned 40.  Oh, and I bought a house right in the middle of the housing bubble in 2005.  Guess what?  I kept paying on it, didn't get foreclosed, and still own it.  

Yes, I have been fortunate that I've been consistently employed.  But I've also done side jobs to make extra cash, like you have, and my personal savings rate has always been at least 10% of my gross income.  

FLOUDER, but not really- politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle are simply pandering to whoever their perceived constituency is, more and more, by simply tossing (or, promising to toss) "free" money at them.  

berkeley 'em all.  I'm off to work.  

I'll make the flounder worse.

I'm 51 now, and when I was in school, I didn't have to take a single loan out.  Not one.  Not because we were rich (we were not) but because school was CHEAP.  Even when the tuition went up for my Sr year, it was not even the cost of a cup of coffee a day up.  

That was in the era before massive state tax cuts to education.  

Then, when I went to grad school, it was 100% paid for by the school and me being a TA.  Out of state tuition was MUCH higher than my original school, but it was a fraction of what it is now.  Before Michigan cut taxes and cut education spending....

Thanks to that, I got my first real brand new car when I was 32.  And have had no issue saving for an early retirement.  

Really, the much lower cost tuition people have a point, given that THEIR parents benefited by it.

alfa, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here... but I think I agree with you? The cost of college has gotten out of hand and has risen at a rate unseen in almost any other industry. Well above inflation for sure--and a large part of that, ironically, is due to how easy it is to get loans, and how stupid/ignorant people have been in taking them. I'll never forget sitting in an admissions office when the admission/financial aid officer told us "and you can get this on a student loan an--" that was when my dad stopped her and asked "You'd really recommend an 18 year old take on a loan for a brand new Lexus or BMW?" How many parents are asking that question? 

And for a similar point, my parents both paid for their own college. Each summer, they'd earn enough to pay tuition room and board. Me? I made $10k cash one summer. That covered maybe a semester of tuition. I made more money than anyone I knew at that age. All gone.

 

My original point is only that student loans should not be forgiven. Restructured, sure. Income based repayment plans, definitely. Cap the interest rates, yes. But forgive? I gave up on effectively 10 years of 7% annualized returns so that I didn't have any student loan debt. I worked my ass off for that; I saw a lot of people who didn't do that. Can you provide me with the 10 years of missed returns? I sacrificed a lot to not have any student loans--time, vacations, new things, eating out, investing in the market, partying... I would not have sacrificed those things if the loans were just going to be forgiven. 

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) UltimaDork
4/25/19 12:35 p.m.
Torkel said:

In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :

I'd be intrigued to find out in what setting/forum your 18 year old stepdaughter got to know this perfect son in law.

That's where it gets really good.  Her biological "father" is a ner-do-well professional victim type (draws a disability check, always broke, chronic substance abuse, stints in jail for things that were never "his fault").  Apparently this gem of a boyfriend was hanging out with dear old dad when she went over there for a visit and they exchanged numbers.  

Right now I can see two paths stretching out in front of this girl.  Path one:  college, a series of age appropriate/class appropriate boyfriends, some growing up before settling into a six figure career and comfortable life.  Path two: hang out with neck tat a while, get a baby and a substance habit, get a few more babies by different (equally classy) dudes, work the next 30 years as a night clerk at the gas station.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
4/25/19 12:41 p.m.

In reply to mtn :

My point is that you should not have had massive student loans in the first place.  The fact that it happened was wrong and greedy on many accounts.  

Perhaps forgiveness is the wrong thing to do, as it does not help those who did it right.  But the structural problem with the system that is the majority cause should be fixed, and we get back to where we were 30 years ago.

mtn
mtn MegaDork
4/25/19 12:47 p.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to mtn :

My point is that you should not have had massive student loans in the first place.  The fact that it happened was wrong and greedy on many accounts.  

Perhaps forgiveness is the wrong thing to do, as it does not help those who did it right.  But the structural problem with the system that is the majority cause should be fixed, and we get back to where we were 30 years ago.

Got it. Yes, you're right. I have no clue how we get there though. I guess the question is, should those who "did it right" get a discount on their tuition, 5-30 years after the fact, if you're going to do the loan forgiveness? How do you account for people like me--I worked my ass off and paid for most of college myself (probably about 75%, including some small scholarships--probably 60% of the total bill was out of MY pocket) but my parents had my back? Which brings us to another interesting COL--my generation probably has to have a significant portion of our retirement funded by inheritance from our parents. 

 

Gawd, now I'm all worked up. I'm gonna go buy a lottery ticket and then if I win I'll just make a scholarship. 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
4/25/19 1:25 p.m.

In reply to mtn :

Theoretically, all of the loan data was kept somewhere.  So, theoretically, people like you could get some tax credits somewhere.  That would be a pretty easy way to help the suffering of people who paid their loans before the forgiveness time.  

Ashyukun (Robert)
Ashyukun (Robert) UberDork
4/25/19 2:14 p.m.

Over the last few years, the Dancer and I have pretty regularly gone to see most of the MCU movies with a couple we're friends with (wife was part of the dance company mine danced in at the same time, husband works in the same building as I do and we get along almost better than the wives). We've only missed a few that generally either wife hasn't had an interest in, but of course we've been trying to work out going to see Endgame this weekend.

No chance of seeing it tonight, and don't really want to brave the crowds anyway; similar situation tomorrow. Saturday would work best for the Dancer and I, but the other couple has stuff going on all day and evening. We'd have preferred not to go Sunday so we can go check up on the cabin and lobbied for going after work Monday when it should be less crowded and there are still decent reserved seats available at several theaters. But the other wife gets up at like 5:30am and insists she has to be in bed by 9pm- and there's little chance of use husbands being able to get out early enough to make a showing that would have her home on time.

So, we're going to have to get up far earlier than we'd like to on Sunday morning (read: somewhere around 9am) which is the only morning of the week the Dancer and I can both sleep in a bit to see an early Matinee so we're done with enough time to drive out to the cabin. Generally I wouldn't mind just waiting until the following weekend- but there's no way it's not going to be spoiled by somebody by that point...

I swear, almost every time that we try and arrange to do something with these friends we end up wondering if it's worth the effort for how difficult they (primarily the wife) tend to make things. 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
4/25/19 3:57 p.m.
Duke said:
Duke said:

ARE YOU BERKING KIDDING ME

I've been working 10-hour days all week on a crush deadline.  Next week won't be any better due to backlogged projects put aside for this one.

I'm having 20 people, mostly family, to my house on Sunday.  Some of the fun ones aren't coming and some of the not-fun ones are.  Typically the last folks trickle out around 9:00p, and the place is a wreck with dirty dishes, leftovers, etc.

Monday morning I have to be on site, 2 hours' drive away, at 9:00a.

Next Saturday is our first autocross of the season, and I have to finish prepping the car and getting the T&S equipment ready.  And find somebody to tow the trailer to the site.

IT NEVER BERKING FAILS

A week later, now I'm stressed twice as much:

  • Workload hasn't slowed down.  At all.  Everything is overdue.
     
  • Got 2 extra tasks dumped on me today.  Only a couple hours each, but every minute of every day is already spoken for.
     
  • First autocross of the season is Saturday.  I'm program chair.  Season opener is always stressful.  This one especially so because:

    A) It's our first with the "grand re-re-opening" system that I put together after the main bits of the previous system got destroyed in a microburst last August, and I am not 100% (or even 90%) confident in it;

    B) It's our first at a new venue where I've never run before, which has some quirky terrain;

    C) Preregistrations were down enough to worry me 10 days ago, but now they are up enough to worry me - we're about at what I consider comfortable capacity (75 cars) even without walkups, and I know we'll get some;

    D) At least half of those are names I have never seen before, and are therefore unknown quantities;

    E) A bunch of my regulars are not coming, so I may be shorthanded for experienced workers and setup help;

    F)  Program budget is tight, and I had to buy a new mobile hotspot because our old NetZero 3G dongle (which was perfectly adequate) is no longer supported, so that's an entry and a half in break-even money lost;

    G)  I still have a bunch of data gathering and printing to do for the event;

    H)  The course draft design still isn't finished.

All of the above... AND we sold out the event at 90 cars, which is a solid 20 cars more than we usually get.

I'd feel a lot better about that if it wasn't a lot of newcomers at our first event in 9 months at a new venue with equipment that hasn't been field tested.

indecisionfrowncrying

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/25/19 4:05 p.m.

How long do you have to be told that you aren't good enough before you start believing it? No wonder I have little sense of self worth. 

slefain
slefain PowerDork
4/25/19 4:06 p.m.

I'm starting to think my car insurance company is working harder for the guy who HIT me, rather than me (their actual paying customer). Thank you Florida for having the most berkeleyed up car insurance laws I've ever seen. No fault my ass...it was pretty berkeleying clear who was at fault.

barefootskater
barefootskater Dork
4/25/19 4:55 p.m.

Trying to help my FIL and SIL both find new (used) cars. Their budgets are unreasonable for what they want but that isn't my complaint.

I work at a dealership. For years now. I am in good standing with management and have bought two cars myself, one of them brand new, and had two of my siblings buy as well. Had a car come in on trade, 04 CRV 146k auto. Gave the folks $1k on trade. Manager says the AC is broken (bad compressor, known as black death and needs the whole system replaced) so he'd give me a great deal. I figure their $1000 plus the standard fees and the managers "yeah I'll take care of you" and I should be able to get the thing for less than $2k and fix the AC myself. Nope. The manager wants to wholesale the thing to another dealer for $2900 and I can have it for that.

Dude, if you don't want to give me a deal thats fine, Its business, I get it. Just don't promise me a "great deal" and then get upset when I pass.

JohnInKansas
JohnInKansas SuperDork
4/25/19 4:59 p.m.

In reply to Appleseed :

You're good enough for us. Maybe too good. yes

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
4/25/19 9:10 p.m.

In reply to mtn :

Part of the tuition cost problem is that a lot of schools, for whatever reason, have been spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave.  Giant new buildings and other infrastructure of questionable value; but also more and more "administrative" positions with little connection to actual education.  

The are charging more because they can, but also because they have to, to support their expenditures (and, often, loans).  

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltimaDork
4/25/19 9:46 p.m.

My son worked under a professor at a big Univ in SoCal for his PhD so we looked him up under the state salary website.  Nice salary but the guys at the top/end of his career?

Paying $225k or $285k with bennies?   I hope my son gets those salaries someday but I imagine that field might change?  

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
4/25/19 10:26 p.m.

I want to know how they plan to settle the student loan debt forgiveness stuff for those of us who sacrificed everything about our lives to do a stint in the military for the G.I. Bill, especially saps like me that got permanently disabling injuries on active duty...

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
4/26/19 5:30 a.m.

In reply to Javelin :

Agreed, but you can't keep a system broken just because it was broken before. We're paying for our kids college, are we the fools or should we take out all the loans hoping for forgiveness for them in the future? What we should do it have my wife retire right now, knock income down to zero, and the kids would probably get 500k+ in grants and scholarships over the next 8-10 years. 

My rant on this is that my parents made three times what my wife's parents made when I was growing up. Guess who saved for college? 

Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
4/26/19 6:27 a.m.

I got lucky as berk with my tuition. I took out a loan for my one semester at WKU where I failed everything. After that I didn't register the next semester and when I finally decided to go to a tech school for machining. My dad told me he'd pay for tuition  out of pocket as long as I finished. So between him, the scholarship I managed to get to cover one semester, and a couple semesters where I paid myself because he couldn't (I was barely able to do it working part time at a parts house but I pulled it off somehow), everything is paid up with the college so the only debt I have is the 5k for that one semester at WKU, which I plan on getting paid off asap now that I'm actually working. Meanwhile all my friends that went to college of some form, some that didn't even get a degree, are at least 20-30k in the hole. 

Basically education is screwy and the way people handle it is worse. 

Bent-Valve
Bent-Valve Reader
4/26/19 6:42 a.m.

I was looking for a movie in a video store several years ago. I started listening to the two college students next to me with horrified fascination. I didn't mean to eavesdrop but couldn't stop. 

They had a hand full of movies and a bunch of the expensive candy from the store. They were trying to figure out how to pay for it. (with credit cards)

"Not that one, it has just enough left for my books."

"I need that one for classes next semester."

"Well this one's maxed out." 

"I just paid this one down enough, it will cover this."

I don't know how many credit cards total they were juggling but it was worse than a horror movie because it was real.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
4/26/19 6:48 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

When I was about 16 or so, I recall one day around Christmas my dad took me ice skating at a local pond.  While we were out enjoying the day, we had a long conversation about college.  One of the things he told me was that he and mom would help us out as much as they could with tuition, with the caveat that the degree had to be in something "marketable".  In other words, engineering, accounting, law, or medicine.  Fortunately I was already thinking about engineering, so it wasn't really a hard sell.  Just imagine if I'd had my heart set on an archaeology degree... surprise

High schools, and high school guidance counselors, need to have conversations with students about all the things mtn mentioned....but ultimately it comes down to the parents.  Now that I have my own 2 kids, I'm trying to instill in them the same knowledge and values and logic that mine did in me.  

Life isn't fair.  If you're the child of a Rockefeller, you can go on a 4 year paid vacation and study berkeley all.  But if you're not, you need to have realistic expectations.  

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
4/26/19 10:30 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Agreed, the whole system needs to be fixed. I'm just pointing it that it's a lot more complicated than figuring how to make it right with the people that paid the debt off.

Antihero
Antihero Dork
4/26/19 12:00 p.m.

Ive been following the band Joyous Wolf since i accidentally saw them at a free show( i was going to see Of Limbo but they had a car accident and didnt show). Lots of energy on stage, heavy for the style they are playing and all around a good sound. They didnt have much online about them but the one song up on youtube really kinda nailed what they sound like.

They got signed to Roadrunner and started recording an album. They released a cover, which was meh, and another song which was....neutered.

They released their new album just a few days ago and i had a long road trip so i listened to the whole thing. It has all the hallmarks of a record label neutering a band to make them more mainstream somehow, no energy, much lighter than they are live and all around flat.

 

I really really hate to hear this

NickD
NickD PowerDork
4/26/19 12:13 p.m.
Antihero said:

 

They got signed to Roadrunner...

 

Are the band members all sporting ramen noodle hair these days?

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 UltraDork
4/26/19 12:20 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I remember that my youngest sister tried to talk our parents into getting a divorce because she would qualify for grants that way.

I paid up to a certain age for my girls to go to college but it was not a big name expensive school. It took them a few years longer to go paying as you go but they are thanking my now that they don't have student debt to deal with and have their degrees. Got mine via GI Bill. Intended to just do 3 years in and then get out to go to college, 20 years later I retired from the military and then used my GI Bill and got my degree. A guy I work with went into the military after running up student debt for his degree to take advantage of a program that paid off student loans after doing a specified amount of time in. So there's an option, Have everyone with student debt they want paid off put in a specified amount of time doing some kind of public service work or military. Can even pay them for working and pay off debt. 

NickD
NickD PowerDork
4/26/19 12:35 p.m.

Tomorrow is both the first 2019 Cars & Coffee at Cantech Automotive and they SUNY Polytechnic annual auto show, both of which are very cool events I enjoy going to. Planned on leaving home early, go to Cantech for a couple hours and then jetting to SUNY Polytech and arriving fashionably late for that show. Originally the forecast was sunny and 55. Nice. Then by Wednesday it got downgraded to sunny and 51 with wind. Now they are saying it's going to be high of 47, cloudy, windy, possible rain showers, possible snow showers. What the berkeley? C'mon, weather, we're going into May and still getting predicted snow?!

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